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Location:
Geelong
Registered:
April 2003
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2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Wed, 16 April 2003 08:14
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I'm new here, so be kind...
I have the opportunity to buy a mk1 cortina sports sedan. By the sounds of it, it seems like its complete except the engine and box. It did have a Mazda rotary in it.
I have to come up with a good engine and box combo for it.
What has tickled my fancy is a 4AGE plant. This will fit nicely into the 1600 class of 2 litre sports sedans. I chose this engine because it's easy and cheap to come by, would this be right?
Would I be right in saying this would be one of the best NA 1600cc engines available?
What about costs of building a race engine? I want good bang for buck as i'm only 17!
About the gear box, I have no idea what would suit?
Anyone else here ever raced sports sedans?
Any other info owuld be greatly appreciated!
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Wed, 16 April 2003 09:32
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Racing is hideously expensive if you can't do the work yourself.
Be prepared to do a fat wad of cash on anything you do.
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Wed, 16 April 2003 11:52
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if you wont to win the under 16 00 get a black top 20v you will beat them for sure my maye does 1.54 at the island and thats a club car
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Location:
Geelong
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Wed, 16 April 2003 13:04
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Yes, I do realise that it's expensive. My father has been restoring cars (real old cars) since before I was born and he has alot of friends, not to mention my uncle, who are mechanics, or are retired mechanics. A good mate of my fathers ia also a mechanic at a rally tuning shop, so should be able to give me a hand. I'm pretty cluey with cars anyways.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Wed, 16 April 2003 22:44
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Ok to build a competative 4AGE engine your probably looking at between 7-10K just for the engine alone, by that i maen probably 600-1000 for the engine, prbably a good 1000 for the rebuild, lightened and balanced crank upgraded con-rods probably carillo's, some forged pistons, shim under buckets, possibly better valves, cams over 304 deg, individual throttle boddies, dry sumping the thing, then an ECU. there is probably lots of other stuff ive missed. but you will need to put out over 200HP to be competative. Than after that youll need a close ratio gearbox to handle it all and they can range form about 4K to about 11K for a Quafe box. Beleave me ive done the sums of running a competative sprinter in sports sedans and youll look at about 20K for engine and drive train. It can be done for alot less but you will be further down the pack.
Ben
AE86 Trueno 4AGE
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Thu, 17 April 2003 03:49
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if you wont to win the under 16 00 get a black top 20v you will beat them for sure my maye does 1.54 at the island and thats a club car
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Blacktops aren't that good when it come to race mod's, the best parts from them are the flywheel and throttlebodies. The Silvertop have heaps stronger Conrods and crank, better combustion chamber. For $3500, I have a been guaranteed 150Kw @ wheels by the guy's building mine (has a few running now)add another $2k for ECU etc.
We were originally using a blacktop, but after pulling it down and a comparison with a Sivlertop, I also had pulled down, the Silver got the nod. But the interesting combo their building is using a 7A block I donated, the 4AGE crank, and longer custom rods, and this combo is expected to blitz the 150Kw, but at the cost of less torque, which is perfect for circuit work.
Nice but not necessary.... Supra, celica... have a look around at some options, hoilinger sell new ratio's for most of these @ $1k
Brakes, well I use Nissan GTR, cost of this was around $5K but this can get as high as $40K top notch stuff.
You could run a dry sump and other stuff, but all this could wait for later down the track...
There's my 2c.
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Location:
Geelong
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Thu, 17 April 2003 06:36
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Thanks Johnny, thats what i'm after. Now ya say quad throttle bodies... would twin weber's be an imrovement or not? Also... if I was to run weber's, what size would be the choice? I know that mini's run schweet on 45DCOE's (I have a few mini's round my place  ), and for the larger cap engines (1350cc +), the 48.
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Thu, 17 April 2003 12:45
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Stick with the EFI, better response & power, heaps easier to keep tuned and eat half the juice!
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Location:
Geelong
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Fri, 18 April 2003 00:12
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Any reason for using the 7A block? I presume that the cylinders are the same diameter?
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Fri, 18 April 2003 10:44
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the only reason he is using the 7a block is rod ratio also you can get a blacktop and ecu for around 2500 and then a ae86 gearbox and away you go the engine will rev to the factory redline of 8200 my mate has astd blacktop and ecu and std box in a ke25 corolla he is doing 1.54 at the island 1.39 at winton and 1.10 at calder and thats std with yoky 32r tyres slicks would be faster at least 4 seconds at the island ,most likelt 2 seconds at the others the point being its only 2500 and it cheap and you would beat the others check out the last state racing on natsoft.com.au and have a look at the under 2 litre results
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Location:
Geelong
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Fri, 18 April 2003 11:47
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Starting to sound more promising now!
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Location:
Geelong
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Fri, 18 April 2003 11:49
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Oh... and... Celica, was that in improved production?
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Sun, 20 April 2003 12:19
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the only reason he is using the 7a block is rod ratio
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Exactly that.
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also you can get a blacktop and ecu for around 2500
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I think he got jipped... check the 1/2 cut I got for $3000 a year ago, 28,000Km on the clock, a real bargin... I really only needed the gearbox at first.
But again, if your looking to the future, don't get one... Nice for street, but a few smart mod's, the Silvertops go just as good.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Tue, 22 April 2003 14:49
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| CelicaRA45 wrote on Fri, 18 April 2003 20:44 |
the only reason he is using the 7a block is rod ratio also you can get a blacktop and ecu for around 2500 and then a ae86 gearbox and away you go the engine will rev to the factory redline of 8200 my mate has astd blacktop and ecu and std box in a ke25 corolla he is doing 1.54 at the island 1.39 at winton and 1.10 at calder and thats std with yoky 32r tyres slicks would be faster at least 4 seconds at the island ,most likelt 2 seconds at the others the point being its only 2500 and it cheap and you would beat the others check out the last state racing on natsoft.com.au and have a look at the under 2 litre results
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So celica these lap times are the lap record times for class D
in improved production racing 0-1600 and the 1.54.2041 around the island was Dave Loftus 24/11/02 in a 20 Valve powered Starlet.The lap record around Winton is a 1.41.8845 by Matt Pearce 7/7/02 in a 1500 powered Honda Civic.Sandown,s lap record is held by Darren Best in a Hyundia Excel 28/7/02 1.31.5740.
Calders lap record Steve Newing Datsun 1200 29/10/94 1.10.94.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Wed, 23 April 2003 00:23
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DynoDave, those times CelicaRA45 quoted were all obtained during sprints, so unfortunately they don't count.
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Wed, 23 April 2003 04:23
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I was speaking to Loftus 2day and how does a 1.07 for Calder sound a S/T 20V with standard bottom end?...AND HE WAS ONLY MUCKING AROUND FOR FUN!  dunno what he would of done if he got serious.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Wed, 23 April 2003 04:40
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Damn, thats one hell of a fast 20v!
Compared to a s6 rx7 that i saw do a 1:30, that thing must fly!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Wed, 23 April 2003 23:01
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Yes and the Starlet will be back down to the Island Magic meeting later this year to try and break his own lap record (the car ran 5th outright in last years race)the new engine and pipes are almost ready to put in the car.
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Thu, 24 April 2003 02:39
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the new engine and pipes are almost ready to put in the car.
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And a really nice bit of work too!
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Sat, 26 April 2003 08:46
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Johny,
How much do u want for the black top sitting at daves?? I have someone who is interested in it....
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Location:
Sydney, OZ
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Sat, 26 April 2003 10:18
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Sorry Traction, It isn't for sale. The G/Friend's Car is the lucky receipant. I discovered that It needs its 4AC to be removed to fix a few things ie three engine mounts plus gearbox needs a seal done. So why bother putting the 4AC back, when I have that sitting there!
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2 Litre Sports Sedan
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Sun, 27 April 2003 08:13
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Yeah no worries. Just thought id ask. Thanks anyway
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