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Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
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ta22 front brake upgrade. what to use/how to do it
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Sun, 07 September 2003 02:58
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heya guys i need some feed back from anyone that has done a front brake upgrade on a ta22 celica, i have a 2t/3t hybrid motor in my celica and the standard brakes are not really up to thte task, one good hard brake and they are fading fast, so im looking at getting some bigger rotors and calipers, what can you guys suggest??? i was also thinking of just getting some good quality brake pads and getting some sloted rottors, is this worth while or should i go with the bigger setup???
thanks guys
justin 
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ta22 front brake upgrade. what to use/how to do it
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Sun, 07 September 2003 09:30
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i think someone has written the pug/hilux upgrade article specific to the ta22 somewhere already, try the articles section or maybe the gallery.
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Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ta22 front brake upgrade. what to use/how to do it
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Sun, 07 September 2003 21:45
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i shall have a look thanks
justin
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ta22 front brake upgrade. what to use/how to do it
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Fri, 12 September 2003 09:53
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here's a bit more in depth info on the pug/hilux conversion based on my own experience...
To begin with, the brake upgrade I have on my celica is the regular "Hilux/pug/corona" setup. I followed the details that are described in the articles section on Toymods, and then worked out the rest myself. I hope my experience can help out others.
Now the common complaint about this setup is that it "will not fit on a TA22." Well I tell you now it does, and it is all nut and bolt stuff!! It is true that the corona struts are of incorrect dimensions to properly run in the TA22, but it is not a difficult task to have the strut appropriately modified.
So the struts are corona XT130 struts. I got these complete with brakes and suspension, just to ensure that I had all the necessary parts if I found myself in trouble! However, really the only parts you need of them is the strut itself (with or without the "wet leg" insert) and the hubs complete with bearings. The calipers are LN106 Hilux calipers. The important thing to note when you obtain these parts is to just quickly measure the distance between the mounting points on the caliper and the strut and just ensure that they match up at 90mm.
The discs are probably the most difficult part of the conversion itself. Although he discs are "off the shelf" pug 604 items, they are not a direct fit for this conversion. Some simple machining is necessary to ensure a proper fit. We use the peugout discs because thy are 20mm thick and are vented. The standard corona discs, although they are the correct diameteter, are only 12mm thick and are not vented. The reason you cannot use the corona discs is that you require the pads to extend too far to reach the disc. this is ok initially if the pads are new, but as they wear there is the risk that the gap between the disc and the caliper being too big can allow the pad to be pulled out of the caliper... remember that the support pins on top of the caliper are there to only locate the pads and don't bear any load under braking, the edges of the pad backing plates rest against the inside of the calpiper. So if the gap is too big ,the pad can be pulled out of the calipers which is a most scary prospect!!! as a good rule of thumb, use a disc which is of the same thickness as the original disc/caliper combination... as it turns out the standard LN106 hilux disc is 20mm thick.
With the caliper fitted to the strut, if you measure the effective diameter of the pads, you'll find that they only cover a diameter of 266mm, although the pug 604 discs are 273mm in diameter. So for one, if the pug discs are not turned down they will not fit or look right. Some say that it's easy to just file out the inside of the calipers to accommodate the extra diameter of the discs, I say that's dodgy and the discs should be turned down to 266mm (most specialist brake shops can organise this for you). Besides, what's the point of having a fat band of unused disc spinning outside the pads??? Would look awful if you ask me!!!
Other modifications to the discs are obviously the mounting bolt holes. Again, there are some options here. As the diameter of the existing hole circle is slightly too small they can either be enlarged by drilling out, or a more appropriate solution is to have the holes slotted to make the diameter right. Here, use the hub, or the old corona disc as a guide to the location of the holes. Another solution is to redrill all four holes in other locations…
The caliper can be mounted to the struts such that the caliper is mounted at the back of the strut. There is sufficient room, albeit not a lot, between the caliper and the steering arm and tie rod end. I did not investigate the idea of reversing the struts so I could mount the calipers at the front, I guess I should just leave it how it was supposed to be just like a TA22, XT130 and even the LN106 with the caliper towards the rear!!! Be very careful to decide on your left and right side caliper. Make sure that whichever caliper you choose, that in it's operating location and position, that the bleeder nipple is at the TOP, not the bottom. This is to ensure that when you bleed that brakes, you actually get the air out!!!
When it comes time to do final assembly, I recommend that the calipers are rebuilt with new kits. If you choose to do this then be aware that these calipers have an internal fluid crossover. Most caliper rebuild kits will not come with the seals to rebuild the calipers if you split them in half. I suggest that there is no need to replace the seals on the internal crossover, only the seals and boots on the pistons themselves.
Once you have the discs modified accordingly, it's ready to bolt it up. With the discs bolted to the hubs using the existing bolts fit the hub to the stub (including or excluding the backing plate - I excluded mine) tension the wheel bearings and forget about it. Now if the caliper is bolted directly to the strut now, it will not fit! But don't stress cos all that is needed is some shims to space the caliper back just enough so that the disc spins directly in the centre of the caliper, from memory it's only like 1mm. It seems as if there is not enough room in the caliper to fit the disc, but rest assured it fits!!! The Hilux shares the same thickness (20mm) disc as the pug 604 so there is no reason for this not to fit. About now you'll also find that the caliper bolts used to hold the corona calipers to the corona strut are too short. You can either get new bolts, or as I did, found that the struts I got came with a set of bolts used the bolt the bottom of the strut to the steering arm. These bolts are the correct thread, but slightly longer and are just perfect for this job!!
There is now another slight problem. You'll notice that the Hilux calipers will not accept the brake line that you're likely to remove from the TA22 caliper, the Hilux caliper instead uses a flange type arrangement. My solution to this was to have some short lengths of brake pipe made up at the brake shop for a few bucks with new fittings that bolt into the back of the caliper. From here the brake pipe is bent to where it meets up with the flexible brake hose at the back of the strut where the clip holds it rigidly in place. There is another advantage to this. Having a shorter length of flexible brake hose means less balooning and better braking feel!!!
The new calipers have over 4 times the size when it comes to piston size, so as you can imagine there is a great loss in pedal when these calipers are fitted. I found that it took almost half the travel of the ped before the brakes take up and begin braking. This is because the master cylinder size is far too small. I looked into replacement master cylinders but found that the cheapest and easiest solution was to have the existing mastercylinder modified. For around $200 I had my old TA22 master cylinder bored out for 13/16 inch to 15/16 inch with new piston and seal. So effectively I got a brand new master cylinder that was suited to the job that bolted right in without modifications to any brake lines. This I strongly recommend as part of the brake conversion!
Back to the struts themselves. As you probably already know, these struts are too long for a TA22, but only by approx 25mm. If you are like me and want to put them in as a temp fix, then you could quite easily get away with it. Apart from being the wrong total length, the lower spring clamp is also located differently to the TA22 strut. I fact this too sits 25mm higher up the strut than the TA22 one, meaning the if it is not relocated, a spring of 25mm shorter length will be required for the correct ride height.
Having fitted the corona strut into my TA22 unmodified, I think that the camber is also not right… I have not got around to having it checked out, but when I do, part of the modifications that I will be making to the struts will be to have them bent to my desired camber, as well as having them shortened. I think I will go to about 1 - 1.5 deg neg camber for nice handling!!! I will have the struts shortened so that their specs will be back to those of a TA22 so that getting hold of springs and shocks will be easy. I was toying with the idea of height adjustable coil overs, but I really don't think it's worth the cost!! Although I do think it is worth swapping over to the TA22 lower spring clamp off the TA22 spring. And when mounted the same distance from the stub axle, there is no reason that correct spec TA22 springs can't be used!!!
One onther tiny aspect is brake pads. I was lucky enough to have my caliper arrive with almost new brake pads fitted already. So for initial setup it was great to have the pads there ready to go. But even with the HUGE increase in braking performance, I was still able to achieve brake fade. This was not brake fade caused by excessive heat reaching the fluid and boiling it, but rather I was able to over heat the pads at about their maximum 450 degC rating. I knew I had to have better so I have now got a set of EBC Green Stuff pads from a Mitsubishi GTO (pard DP21097), rated to 650 degC. These pads fit right in. the outer pads are no drama, but the inner pads did require some minor surgery on the bench grinder so that they would clear the caliper mounts, but not difficult to do.
So I now have huge brakes, fitting behind my wheels (15x6 performance superlites), a pedal that feels like stock and the capability to beat some quite exotic cars under brakes. Since the new pads I have not been able to reach the limits of my brakes, and with the stock rear drums still in use, I couldn't be happier with the performance. The cost all up with the performance pads, master cylinder everything was about $1100. this is not a really good guide as all parts and work was done at trade prices.
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Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: ta22 front brake upgrade. what to use/how to do it
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Sat, 13 September 2003 07:37
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thanks for that man, im hoping that you have typed that and you just cut and pasted it, if not! thanks for the time
justin
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Location:
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: ta22 front brake upgrade. what to use/how to do it
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Sun, 14 September 2003 04:09
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Perhapd you would like to consider another option that I have just completed for my TA22 Improved production race car.
I am using the LN106 Hilux calipers with a VS Commodore rotor.
The commodore integral rotor/hub bolts straight on to the XT130 Corona stub axle. To fit the calipers you need to take about 3mm of the outer edges of the passageway that the rotor runs through and also about 2mm from the face of the mounting ears of the calipers. This will ensure that the rotor sits in the centre of the calipers.
The above is all pretty easy stuff and with commodore rotors relatively cheap and easy to get makes more sense that the pug conversion. Be warned though that you will need a deep-dish style rim so that the rims don't foul on the strut leg. HQ rims do the job nicely.
But now you have a commodore stud pattern right ??
This is not a problem if you are doing the job on your car properly and are also fitting a hilux diff. I have just done the diff conversion and had the hilux axles also converted to commodore stud pattern. This makes fitting rear discs really simple as you can use VN commodore calipers and rotors with a simple plate made up to carry the calipers.
To make sure that your front and rear track remains close to original (no fouled guards) you would need to use the 70's model hilux diff which is 1375mm or something like that rather than the later models wich are 1400mm +.
I know this all sounds just too bloody hard but it is the best possible solution for the race car for all-round stopping power.
I am using standard booster with adaptor plate to ST185 master cylinder. Godd for race car but not sure if it would be road legal.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: ta22 front brake upgrade. what to use/how to do it
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Mon, 15 September 2003 01:07
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I was thinking about this conversion for my ta22. can the hilux/pug conversion be addapted to the ta22 struts cause i have new struts with lowered springs and i don't wanna get rid of them.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
NE Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: ta22 front brake upgrade. what to use/how to do it
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Mon, 15 September 2003 15:09
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no, best bet is to use XT130 struts. it is easy though to have the XT130 struts shortened and the spring plates swapped over so all your new suspension will fit just as it is now. BTW, the corona strut has larger stub axle and bigger bearings, much stronger than TA22.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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 Re: ta22 front brake upgrade. what to use/how to do it
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Tue, 15 June 2004 02:25
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hey guys!
i know this is an old thread and please ignore my ignorance but with this conversion what year model hilux are the calipers from and what year model pug are you talking bout for the disc themselves?
iv read every thread and the articles and there is mention of the corona strut model but not the rest. i just dont want to spend money on the wrong stuff
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ta22 front brake upgrade. what to use/how to do it
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Tue, 15 June 2004 02:26
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hey guys!
i know this is an old thread and please ignore my ignorance but with this conversion what year model hilux are the calipers from and what year model pug are you talking bout for the disc themselves?
iv read every thread and the articles and there is mention of the corona strut model but not the rest. i just dont want to spend money on the wrong stuff
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: ta22 front brake upgrade. what to use/how to do it
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Tue, 15 June 2004 06:07
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SEARCH is your friend
FWIW though DBA F272 rotors
hilux calipers - mine are LN130 which was mid 90's surf.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: ta22 front brake upgrade. what to use/how to do it
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Tue, 15 June 2004 07:14
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Hilux calipers from a LN106 or RN105 1987 to 1998 vintage.
You can also use RT132/133 Corona Struts 1979-1980.
Nissan 200SX pads also fit the Hilux caliper and don't require any filling down or bench grinder modifications.
Cheers,
Mitch.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: ta22 front brake upgrade in Melbourne
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Sun, 13 February 2005 05:21
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I have a TA22 and need a front brake upgrade like this. I live in eastern suburbs of Melbourne and wonder if members might recommend someone or a place that might to this for me. I also need the steering arms replaced. Members' suggestions would be much appreciated!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: ta22 front brake upgrade in Melbourne
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Sun, 13 February 2005 09:04
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| gpvm wrote on Sun, 13 February 2005 16:21 |
I have a TA22 and need a front brake upgrade like this. I live in eastern suburbs of Melbourne and wonder if members might recommend someone or a place that might to this for me. I also need the steering arms replaced. Members' suggestions would be much appreciated!
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mate its very easy to do yourself! with the above detailed article there is also this one
http://www.toymods.org.au/phill_brake
if you get someone to do it it will cost more than definately double it should
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