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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Logical progression for modified gt4
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Fri, 03 October 2003 09:08
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Ok - im in the proccess of laying down the pathwork for the next step of modification for my Gt4
next immediate step is the group a bumper bar , and a new exhaust , after that - its the big stuff - motor and gearbox
Im in 2 worlds as the most logical way to go on this - so far paths are:
1: rebuild my motor, with all the goodness of forgies and stuff, rebuild the turbo ( highflowed ) , swap intercooler to larger front mounted job - but for the moment retain stock ECU ( later swap to microtec or autronic setup ), source a 205 Group A gerarbox - abd get that in as well ..
2: Source a st205 group a Front cut , Swap the motor, and gearbox from that - into my car - including the ECU , and W to A intercooler - Modify the existing exhaust to suit it , and be happy with 19PSI of boost controlled stockness. Theres also the added benifit of possible 205 rotors and 4 pot brakes on the front coming with the frontcut IF im lucky
Im aiming for an outcome of 185 - 200kw at the wheels in the end - nothing insane like some of us Gt4 boys are heading for - but something that i know is fast , reliable - and not impractical for daily driven Use.
Which do those think will be the most logical step top proceed for my greybeasy - Engine swap to later more powerful setup - or engine rebuild with bolt on accessories but ending up with a similar output to the wheels??
both conversoins - dollar for dollar - at an ueducated guess- are in the same ballpark , one i can do as one big swap with a shortish timeframe ( bar for rewiring for the 205 ecu ) - the other means car off the road while bits are rebuilt?
Ideas - or advice for those with experience in this swap greatly appreciated!
stuart
[Updated on: Fri, 03 October 2003 09:16]
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Logical progression for modified gt4
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Fri, 03 October 2003 12:58
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Hi Stuart,
I was in exactly the same pickle as you ... what to do , what to do.
My solution was that I bought a JDM ST185 engine from an import wrecker. I'm slowly building it up. My reasons:
(a) Identical engine... my $500 Aussie HPC dump pipe will fit.
(b) All wiring and sensors are the same. Slightly different ECU, but its plug and play. The JDM is running in my car at the moment to give better fuel consumption (about 50kms more to the tank, now getting around 9.8L/100km) and more power at the same time.
(c) Much cheaper than a ST205. My engine was $800 inc ECU and Loom.
(d) Same potential power increase capability, in my opinion. Sure the ST205 makes more stock, but once you've rebuilt, I don't see much difference.
A pic in its current state, still stripping it down : http://www.amberaspley.com/gt4/pics/3SGTE/on-stand /front.jpg
The mods I will be doing to the engine:
* ARP Head Studs
* Either CPPistons or JE Pistons (haven't decided)
* Balanced bottom end
* Full gasket set
* Ignition mods (haven't researched it yet.. MSD?)
* Service items: waterpump, belts etc, and EVERY hose 
* New bearings all round
* Hiflow CT26 turbo
Goal is around 350hp at the flywheel. So yeah, 200Kw at the wheels or so. Some people have told me that the 3SGTE can do this with standard internals.. but I want to build the engine really really strong.
The car already has an ST205 gearbox with lightened flywheel and heavy duty clutch. There is also the Aussie 3" dump and high-flow cat with connecting pipe. The backend of the exhaust is standard. I've completely done the suspension, and finally got it sitting nicely on the 17" wheels. See pic : http://www.amberaspley.com/gt4/pics/ExhaustDay/sid e_shot.JPG
Its gotta last me a long time, as in a years time I will be starting my own business and no doubt won't be able to afford to be fixing GT4s
Pricing everything up, I believe the cost will be around $3.5K including engine purchase. The turbo I will be getting done at cost price, so maybe add $500 or so if you have to pay full price.
Just taking my time and enjoying it. I don't care if it takes 6 months to do, as there is nothing wrong with my current engine.
Make sure you keep me posted on what you decide to do.. i find it really interesting to see what others are doing to their 'fours
seeya
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Logical progression for modified gt4
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Sat, 04 October 2003 02:33
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the block side of things isnt a major worry - the 205 has slightly more potential with stock basis and internals for HP - but both jobs Still require wiring , amd modification to intercooler setups
I had thought of using 205 pistons + head on the 185 block - but still utilising the 185 inlet manifold ..
Ive just found out the exhaust manifolds are different - So this is a X against using the 205 block
would a 185 block with 205 type internals happily handlye upwards to 350 horsies without the need for forgies - and would the head flow as well or in near as figures to the oval type setup on the 205
I guess at this stage im looking at the benifits of rebuilding what i have - ie matching numbers - plus i already would have the dump pipe to suit and all the sensors needed/wiring needed to plug and play
JDM ecu doesnt matter much to me - its only a gain of about 5kw over the board - and economy wise its used as a daily driver for 70% of the time - and im quite happy with the 600 + km out of a tank on high boost cruising on the highway it has atm. If i wanted the computer - id still probably hit it with an uatonic setup or microtec - and get something map based - so i can work then on a C.O.A box .
Still keen to hear how things have progressed for others who have done the 205 swap ? Danny ? Anhar ?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Logical progression for modified gt4
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Sun, 05 October 2003 09:03
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| Classique71 wrote on Sat, 04 October 2003 12:33 |
I had thought of using 205 pistons + head on the 185 block - but still utilising the 185 inlet manifold ..
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Won't work.. the ports are different. The ST205 doesn't have TVIS. The ST205 pistons are no different to the ST185 models from memory.
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Ive just found out the exhaust manifolds are different - So this is a X against using the 205 block
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Its not a "X" against the 205 block, cause the exhaust manifold bolts to the head, not the block. They are only slightly different. The ST185 manifold is prone to warping slightly at high temps.. the ST205 has an extra (or 2?) studs to stop this happening.
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would a 185 block with 205 type internals happily handlye upwards to 350 horsies without the need for forgies - and would the head flow as well or in near as figures to the oval type setup on the 205
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A ST185 block with ST205 pistons won't handle any more power than a ST185 block with ST185 pistons, in my opinion.
I think the main benefits of the ST205 is its intake, turbo, intercooler and ECU (ie. no AFM etc). However, if you are high flowing the turbo, changing the intercooler and maybe running an Autronic, then I can't see why starting with a 205 engine would have any advantages?? 
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Logical progression for modified gt4
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Tue, 07 October 2003 03:40
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Having had various combinations myself i think the following is the best way to go for a streetable 400hp.
Either 185 or 205 stock setup. 205 is preferable but not by much. Both stock internals will handle 400hp easy for street use.
A mild set of cams, any brand but around the 264 total duration.
Turbo adaptor and decent externally gated turbo. Take your pick but it's hard to go past a Garrett GT25 in either 390 or 440hp a/r spec.
If you have gone Gen II 3SGTE then an Apexi Power FC if you are Gen II then Wolf do their latest Version as a plug and play which makes life so much easier.
If you have an a/w ECU may as well keep it as the flow path is nice and short. For 400hp though it's best to run an ERL water injection system to help out. Otherwise any decent frontmount with the little bit of extra lag that will give.
Your motor will have to be in good shape and if you are doing a rebuild anyway then may as well use forgies as they are pretty much the same price as Toyo pistons for most.
Happy to provide specifics if you want to email me
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Logical progression for modified gt4
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Tue, 07 October 2003 09:08
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Justen - Check your email - Im keen to see how you went about yours . 400Hp is what , 300KW motorwise ?
thats probably on the higher scale of what im aiming for - So even a step back or two from there would be plenty heaps for me ( for the time being - you know it will bite later )
IS this what youve had done to your gt4 (Not the new red one)- or in the planning to do so ?
Anyway - the mail should be there
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