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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Cost of 3SGE Rebuild
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Thu, 24 June 2004 05:43
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Hello all,
I am having my 3SGE rebuilt soon, and i was wondering what is a reasonable price to be paying for a rebuild? just the rebuild (not including the labor for pulling out engine and putting engine back in)
To assist, here is what i am doing.
Replacing pistons with ST205 pistons to lower compression.
replace rings, Metal Head Gaskets, other gaskets, bearings and some valve work.
(mainly tidying everything up.)
Water pump not required (that bastard went already  )
Timing belt while engine is out.
Anything else needed? (not including the turbo gear and EMS)
Worst case head will be cracked and need replacing. how much would this cost?
Not so worse case, head requires minor machining. fair price for this?
any advice or information would be greatly appreciated.
reason i ask is because i am turboing my car starting within 3 weeks and need to rebuild engine to suit. I have approval for the mod and I also have a budget that is currently quite rough. I would like to break it down to a more accurate number. ie Put the squeeze on it if i can (more go fast bits later that way  )
Cheers for help.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Cost of 3SGE Rebuild
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Thu, 24 June 2004 08:09
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mine so far for a 3sgte has cost over 3 grand ..
and still counting ..
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Cost of 3SGE Rebuild
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Thu, 24 June 2004 11:31
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Your better off putting in a st185 or st205 3sgte, it will be a lot cheaper. There have been many people that have turboed n/a car rebuilding the engines and all, but you end up paying more money than you would using a turbo engine with the same power figures.
Everyone goes through the stage of thinking about Turboing there n/a car, then realise there wasting there money and just get a turbo engine because its more cost effective.
You start ringing around car performance shops and get prices and i guarantee you youll be paying atleast $5000 in parts alone for turboing the 3sge. A halfcut for a st185 3sgte is about $2500, no screwing around with custom manifolds and sumps and head porting, pistons, computers etc etc
Whats your budget?
Im sure the Toymods community can give you further Insight, which is actually coming from someone who has been through the Process and not about info someones brothers, uncles, mothers son was saying.
Goodluck in your Project  .
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sunshine Coast
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Cost of 3SGE Rebuild
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Thu, 24 June 2004 11:39
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yeah man just bye an engine already turboed..i done the first engine rebuild and it costed over 1000 with every freashened up..then of course there is the rixk of ur engine nbot waering in properly..likem mine and spun a bearing and now its costed me over 1500 for the engine rebuild..for an extra grand u can get an already turboes engine and stornger internals etc to work with..good luck man
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Cost of 3SGE Rebuild
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Thu, 24 June 2004 23:40
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| Quote: |
yeah man just bye an engine already turboed..i done the first engine rebuild and it costed over 1000 with every freashened up..then of course there is the rixk of ur engine nbot waering in properly..likem mine and spun a bearing and now its costed me over 1500 for the engine rebuild..for an extra grand u can get an already turboes engine and stornger internals etc to work with..good luck man
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Spinning a bearing is 99% of the time not to do with an incorrect 'wearing in' process. Don't take this badly, but it's probably incorrect (or insufficient) installation 
There are problems with building up a turbo engine from an NA engine - con-rods, cranks, gudgeon pins etc can all be slightly different in the NA versions...sometimes just chemically treating the crank can help to prevent the surface from cracking, sometimes it's simply not torsionally strong enough (then you're effed).
From a money perspective - unless you are planning to build an absolute psycho engine and replace every component with something custom - you will always be better off just getting a turbo engine to start with.
You mention that your water pump has gone, I'm gathering that this is the reason for the engine rebuild right? Have you seized the engine totally?
Also when you replace the timing belt, it's generally a good idea to replace the bearings in the idler and tensioner pulleys at the same time. This can add an extra expense, but you don't want those things seizing.
Unfortunately I've lost all the receipts for my engine rebuild, but it came up to around $1000 and I think most of the details are on my cars' thread in the members rides section (check my sig).
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Cost of 3SGE Rebuild
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Thu, 24 June 2004 23:44
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btw - you can't machine the head much on these things, at least i know that for sure on the 1st gen head, as there is not much room between the valves and the edge of the combustion chamber - so good luck with that, you'd need a very tiny amount of warpage if you wanted to get away with it. Any decent engine reconditioner should be able to machine it for less than $100 I guess (can't remember)...if your head is cracked then replacing it will cost you a fair bit more (300-400 maybe from a wreckers).
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Cost of 3SGE Rebuild
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Fri, 25 June 2004 01:47
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Hello all, cheers for the replies to date.
Here is some more information to answer some questions raised.
Engine is getting rebuilt due to Head Gasket issues, car sounds like a WRX with a 3inch and no cat, but goes like a postal bike towing a tonne of firewood
I have a budget of $2000 for rebuilding the engine, was hoping for it to be cheaper, but will need to pay for labour so it will be touch and go.
I have a computer already (3 year old top of the range EMS engine management system - $800!!!  )
Injectors, Turbo and manifold (good for my target of 220hp) $1000 (should be getting something comparable to a CT26 i am told - through ppl in the industry, i believe its either new or rebuilt, its a steal either way, but i dont think it will be the best turbo ever. will do for now)
Gearbox, standard but has had Synchros replaced recently. (should hold till i can do the next Turbo Upgrade and will get a MR2 box then)
Budget is a total of around $4500. (was going to cost me $1400 to just fix the head anyway so....)
I am sure that the engine internals i have will hold up nicely to 220hp, i have read that they are good to even more than this. there is also a site on the net www.turbocelica.com or something similar where someone turned a first gen 3SGE into a monster using a truck turbo, i cant recall him changing much at all internally and he was drag racing at 300-400hp! (10 sec 1/4s), i will find the site and post it later tonight.
I was considering the Front Cut option (very seriously in fact) but its the additional messing about with the gearboxes and the "Not Knowing" wether the engine is a F**KED as mine is already, or will need a rebuild soon anyway. At least going this route i will know what i have when it is built.
I have some questions about turbos which i will start a new thread for soon, firstly though i need to know what are the weakest internal components of the 3SGE which i should upgrade?
Cheers for reading this epic post 
many thanks,
Adam
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Cost of 3SGE Rebuild
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Fri, 25 June 2004 03:59
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What car is this at the moment? ST162?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Cost of 3SGE Rebuild
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Fri, 25 June 2004 04:36
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see signature
ST162r (1989, the yuppie electric one, sunroof and the rest)
Would a T3 turbo be sufficient for this engine? I am looking for the setup to reach max boost as early as possible. So would i increase Compressor wheel size and have a low A/R?
Cheers
Adam
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Cost of 3SGE Rebuild
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Fri, 25 June 2004 04:47
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| acreese wrote on Fri, 25 June 2004 09:47 |
I was considering the Front Cut option (very seriously in fact) but its the additional messing about with the gearboxes and the "Not Knowing" wether the engine is a F**KED as mine is already, or will need a rebuild soon anyway. At least going this route i will know what i have when it is built.
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Thats the joy of a front cut - you can test them out before purchase!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Cost of 3SGE Rebuild
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Fri, 25 June 2004 05:08
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"Thats the joy of a front cut - you can test them out before purchase! "
This is true,
however after my engine overheated some months back, it ran perfectly well for 6months, then it shat itself (gasket was obviously deteriorating gradually).
How can u tell if the same has / has not happened to an engine in a front cut.....? i cannot afford 6 months of fun for $4500. i am requiring a reliable engine from the get go.
there will still obviously be factors (ie its NA now, can it handle a turbo? etc) but i know the engines history (receipts for the car dating back to 1992).
With the front cut i really have very little idea.
still risky either way.
-Adam.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Cost of 3SGE Rebuild
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Fri, 25 June 2004 09:10
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Would a T3 turbo be sufficient for this engine? I am looking for the setup to reach max boost as early as possible. So would i increase Compressor wheel size and have a low A/R?
Cheers
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Hey man, I just do 3S-GE, none of this crazy turbo stuff
Your best bet when it comes to turbo conversions etc is to talk to a good professional (not an asshole) I dunno if anyone on here actually HAS done an NA to turbo conversion.
There are alot of other considerations when doing this, I mean the port sizes, cam timing, do you want to go MAP or stick to AFM, ditch the T-VIS etc etc It's all pretty complex if you want to do it right and that's why it's a good idea to talk to someone who has a pretty thorough grasp of everything involved.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Cost of 3SGE Rebuild
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Fri, 25 June 2004 09:18
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Oh - always get a t.kay test (I think that's the name) and a compression check done on an engine before you buy it...
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