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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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No spark
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Thu, 07 October 2004 03:05
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The ignition in my (5mge)car was left on for too long and now the car wont start. i have held the coil lead to the engine and it gives a nice 2cm spark like it should.
But when i hold a sparkplug to the block while cranking it gets one flash and then nothing after that.
what controls the spark to the plug? would ecu takeover and maybe it is damaged so no spark? would the ignitor attachde to the coil be the problem?
Or maybe internals in the distributor? I dont know the method that the dist. uses to distribute spark? can anyone help me out?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: No spark
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Thu, 07 October 2004 03:12
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AFAIK, if the coil gives a good spark, the ecu and ignitor and wiring is all good.
However, the coil lead, or dizzy, or dizzy leads could be fucked.
Or the timing could be way out.
Take the dizzy cap off and check it all.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: No spark
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Thu, 07 October 2004 03:13
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The spark is distributed by the rotor button which rotates inside the distributor cap. The metal end of the rotor button makes contact with each of the metal tabs on the inside of the dizzy cap, and that completes a circuit to each of the spark plugs. Sounds like you might have burned out the button and/or cap by leaving the ignition on.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Location:
Darwin
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: No spark
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Thu, 07 October 2004 04:23
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mate i was always taught "never leave your ign on for long periods otherwise you will burn your points out". Ive never proven this theory though.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: No spark
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Thu, 07 October 2004 04:27
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| crazedrt104 wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 12:23 |
mate i was always taught "never leave your ign on for long periods otherwise you will burn your points out". Ive never proven this theory though.
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A) Its true
B) He doesnt have points
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Location:
Darwin
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: No spark
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Thu, 07 October 2004 06:14
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ooops...my bad
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Thu, 07 October 2004 06:41
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i have no idea now. the plugs seem to be getting a spark constantly but still no firing. fuel is getting to them aswell. i have given up for now with a large amount of profanities.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: No spark
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Thu, 07 October 2004 06:45
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My car did this on a few accounts.
clean the plugs, or buy new ones.
I literally could NOT get the car to fire.
Put new plugs in, and she fired straight up.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Thu, 07 October 2004 07:06
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well now you tell! thanks will try that out.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: No spark
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Thu, 07 October 2004 07:09
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| Supralux wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 15:06 |
well now you tell! thanks will try that out.
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Hey, you said you had no spark!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Thu, 07 October 2004 07:20
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ok ok. i will go and try it now.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Thu, 07 October 2004 08:26
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still no luck. it fired once tho. something is not letting it run on. i will get the auto elec in to find the problematic part
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: No spark
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Fri, 08 October 2004 11:22
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| CrUZsida wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 13:57 |
| crazedrt104 wrote on Thu, 07 October 2004 12:23 |
mate i was always taught "never leave your ign on for long periods otherwise you will burn your points out". Ive never proven this theory though.
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A) Its true
B) He doesnt have points
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This is not true , it will not burn the points out . It will however cause the coil to fry / blowup (only if the dizzy is in a position where the points are closed.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Fri, 08 October 2004 12:38
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so coil only or ignitor aswell???
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
October 2003
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Fri, 08 October 2004 12:50
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taken plugs out numerous times. cleaned the fuel off them tested that the have spark and then replaced. doesnt fire at all. it is becoming one of 'those' problems
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: No spark
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Fri, 08 October 2004 12:52
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fuel ? how do you know its getting fuel ?
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Sat, 09 October 2004 00:25
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because after cranking the engine theplugs are slightly wet and smell like fuel.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: No spark
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Sat, 09 October 2004 01:58
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could be too much resistance in the plugs and/or leads (or rotor button/dizzy cap), try to close down the plug gap heaps and give the contacts a hit with sandpaper. if that works, buy new plugs and/or leads.
If you've got a good spark then your igniter and coil will be fine. so the problem is in the rotor button, dizzy cap, leads or plugs.
Tim.
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: No spark
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Sat, 09 October 2004 02:16
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just because it smells like fuel does not mean its getting the right amount of fuel . It might be flooding , it might only be fueling on one or two cylinders.....
From what youv said you dont have a spark problem . You need a test light / led test light to see if the injectors are firing.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Sat, 09 October 2004 09:37
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leads are a bit suspect to me as when you hold the plug in your hand you get a shock. shouldnt be doing that and they look like the originals.
Im starting to think maybe ecu was burnt out somehow. remember it has been wired up differently and so when the ignition was left on current may have been flowing through it.
what controls the injector firing? the resistor pack is ok because i have tried another one.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: No spark
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Sat, 09 October 2004 15:35
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If you're getting zapped, then the leads do sound a tad crook!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: No spark
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Sat, 09 October 2004 17:30
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The rotor button rotates inside the cap, in phase with the camshaft to be pointing in the general direction of the
cylinder to be fired. The rotor button does NOT make contact
with the points inside the dist cap, but comes close enough
for a spark to jump between. By leaving the ignition on for a
long period of time, there would be no continual spark, therefore
ruling out any problem with the cap. It's extremly unlikely that
all your leads/plugs would fail at once, and just happen to coincide with the time you left the ignition on for too long (btw, how long is too long?) --- assuming the time frame you speak of is in excess of 20-30 minutes i would start by replacing the coil. If the rare occurance of the reluctor pickup
was in a state of 'half on half off' mode where it was continually sparking (sometihng you would have most likely heard if you were around the car and it was relativly quiet), would cause either the coil/igniter to 'burn out' (most liketly coil) and/or the position on the dizt cap closest to where the rotor button was firing, If it was in this postion this would
only reduce the firing capaciry of 1 cylinder, and not really
prevent starting.
To cut a long diagnosis short, your problem does not lie in your plugs, leads, dissy cap or fuel system, but either in a overheated or fauly coil/ignitor -- or something computer related.
Have a go at replacing the coil if you have a spare one around,
and see how you go, even if you get a shock off the leads, it
still could mean the coil is faulty. Worth a try before spending
$ on an auto elec.
You say there is a constant spark from the coil lead itself, is it fat yellowey spark, or a thin blue spark? If fat yellow, check the inside of the dizzy cap centre carbon brush, if weak blue, it's your coil or ignitor.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Sun, 10 October 2004 01:48
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just to throw in a curveball, the car has a kill switch placed underthe carpet and you have to press that to actually get a spark when cranking. when the ign was left on the kill switch was not activated giving me the impression that it is not so much to do with coil etc but more ecu or the kill switch itself?
holding the leads at the halfway mark and still getting zapped is making me think i will get some new ones anyway. it may be arcing to somewhere else besides spark plug gap when in the head.
ign was left on for around an hour. i have tried the coil and inj. resistor pack with new ones and still no luck.
Spark from coil is a healthy 2cm fat yellow one.
the only thing that hasnt been tried is ecu, ignitor and dizzy. it all seems to be working to well tho. spark is good at the plugs when out of the car. good spark from coil.
there is a relay that controls the ecu and im wondering if this could be burnt out. it is 30amp and maybe it just isnt turning the computer on any more and then the ecu isnt adjusting the timing??
When the plugs are out of the engine while cranking should a mist of fuel exit the plug hole??
Damn car
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: No spark
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Sun, 10 October 2004 04:48
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Ignition system is fine then it seems, is the fuel pump
running/injectors clicking while cranking? You should get a
bit of mist out of the cylinder with the plugs out, esp cause
it's EFI. That's really strange -- fuel/spark it should go.
"But when i hold a sparkplug to the block while cranking it gets one flash and then nothing after that."
Is it still doing that, or are you getting a consistent spark
while cranking now? -- if your getting a single spark
at the start of cranking or at the end, it's usually the voltage
spike from sensor getting power -- then not, simulating a square
wave which triggers the ignitor. -- do you get this also when
turning the ignition on/off? If not could be the ON position
is not getting power, but while cranking it is, OR the dist pickup is not working properly..
I'm not sure about the 5m's, but do they run a computer controlled spark? or is it a seperate system?
A basic checklist would be:
See if fuel pump is being activated under cranking -- will prove if computer is getting power or spark signal
See if injectors are clicking -- secondary check..
Check for voltage at the coil with ignition in ON position
Hope this helps!!
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Location:
NZ
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: No spark
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Mon, 11 October 2004 02:14
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If your engine only fires once then it sounds like the ecu is not kicking the injectors. This usually means that the ECU doesn't know you are cranking or is not getting the correct signals.
Most ECUs will still fire injectors even if the temp / AFM and other sensors are damaged or missing but it won't fire at all if the ECU doesn't a signal from the Dizzy. There is a wire called "IG" that runs back to the ECU from the dizzy this should be pulsing when you crank the engine.
If desperate I have used a clip wire to manually fire the injectors at the ECU connector on the #10 #20 leads. You can short #10 or #20 with a quick flick to ground. If the engines runs ( rough ) then you have spark and fuel but the ECU ain't workin.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Mon, 11 October 2004 02:33
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well, auto electrician is coming tomorrow and i am getting him to check all electrics as i dont want any component to die in the middle of nowhere.
I am still thinking it is something to do with the ecu not getting power or it being damaged.
fuel system is hard wired to ignition with its own relay. will see if injectors are firing soon as it is raining today.
I ran the car without a correct afm for a while and it still had quite a bit of power but it just idled roughly and blew a bit of black smoke. i cant believe i was driving it without all the correct gear and now that i have everything done it wont go.
All ideas presented will be checked and when the problem is found will let you guys know. thanks for all the help.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Sat, 16 October 2004 07:08
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update for my problem, auto elec tells me that all electrics are good to go. ecu is pulsing etc and good spark at plugs.is there any way that the engine can spark the plugs at the end of the exhaust cyle rather than the compression?
i changed a exhaust cam oil seal and could this have changed the cam timing? marks on cam wheels and tdc seem to line up. i am stumped. might try new plugs and new leads.
any ideas now?
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Location:
Dandenong Ranges, VIC
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Sun, 17 October 2004 08:03
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have you checked that your dizzy isnt 180 degrees out? try pulling it out and turning it round 180 degrees and put it back in. i know if you havnt moved it, it should be in the right orientation, but it cant hurt to check.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: No spark
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Sun, 17 October 2004 11:39
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with my 1g geu.. i tested for spark and there was spark getting to everywhere...
it just wouldnt start
turned out the plug on the coil that leads to the dizzy was unplugged(like no more than 5 mm from where it normally is) so it was sitting there.. plugged that in.. and all good
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Sun, 17 October 2004 14:17
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problem solved. cruzsida was on the money in the beginning. I had previously taken the plugs out and cleaned them but to no avail. this morning checked all the cam alignment markings and all was good. checked spark from end of leads and it was strong. My dad had a spare set of plugs for his 1979 landcruiser that have only done 100kms so i threw them in a gave it a crank. well it started perfectly first time and runs like a dream. with the new afm fitted no black smoke at all and idle problems resolved.
I couldnt believe that the plugs could foul so easily in this engine. it was running perfectly in the beginning and then just like that it wouldnt fire. i once had a rally escort where the plugs had burnt away but that still ran quite well.
very happy with the engine powerwise. the g52 gearbox ratios and the 4.88:1 diff ratio make for an interesting 1st+2nd gear. cant wait to take it offroad after reliability has been established. couldnt have done it without the forums/cruzsida. cheers guys
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: No spark
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Mon, 18 October 2004 08:23
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| Supralux wrote on Sun, 17 October 2004 23:47 |
problem solved. cruzsida was on the money in the beginning. I had previously taken the plugs out and cleaned them but to no avail. this morning checked all the cam alignment markings and all was good. checked spark from end of leads and it was strong. My dad had a spare set of plugs for his 1979 landcruiser that have only done 100kms so i threw them in a gave it a crank. well it started perfectly first time and runs like a dream.
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Were you even running the right plugs in it ? Theres a very large range of different plugs for different applications. Go to sprints or motor traders or something like that tell them the engine and buy some bloody plugs suited to the engine.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Tue, 19 October 2004 05:00
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same dimensions etc and these plugs are to run with gas so i think they are slightly better. wouldve been funy if they were too long.
when a timing belt snaps on a 5m will it bugger the valves up or is there enough clearance?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: No spark
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Tue, 19 October 2004 05:04
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| Supralux wrote on Tue, 19 October 2004 13:00 |
same dimensions etc and these plugs are to run with gas so i think they are slightly better. wouldve been funy if they were too long.
when a timing belt snaps on a 5m will it bugger the valves up or is there enough clearance?
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The 2UZ-FE is the only Toyota motor that will snap a valve if the timing belt breaks.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: No spark
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Tue, 19 October 2004 05:08
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thats good because mine has been covered in oil, water and bent numerous times. The car is still going well after 50kms so hopefully it will stay that way.
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