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Location:
Face down in a ditch
Registered:
May 2002
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Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 08 October 2002 13:25
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After reading through the plethora of threads in the forums about engine conversions for the trusty Sprinter, a newbie would be under the impression that the 4A-C is a mechanical paperweight and that the 4A-GXX is god's give to planet.
Can the tech heads out there advise why it is not feasible, either financially or technically, to do the typical mods that are down to the old V8's and the like - bore and stroke, cam, port and polish, quality carburetion and tuning - to the C?
Correct me if I'm wrong but a 4A-C puts out around 50kw, while the 4A-GE puts out around 86kw. Apparently the only difference between the two motors is the head and aspiration of the GE. A 70% increase in power seems to be an extreme gain for a new head and the addition EFI. To me it suggests that the C is severely restricted and is more than happy to be worked.
Can people who have worked their C post what they did, or else shoot me down in flames and say that there is nothing that can be done to the 4A-C.
Cheers,
AE86
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 08 October 2002 13:34
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First up, let me say I loved my old 4AC! It took enormous punishment, and I ended up giving it to someone who couldn't afford to replace their 4AC. That said, I got rid of it for a reason. Namely, lack of excitement!
The major obvious difference is the head. Yes the rods, pistons, cranks, etc. etc. are different too, but about the only direct difference to power in the bottom end is the comp ratio of the pistons, the rest is for strength/revs.
Now the reason nobody bothers: Take a good look at a 4ac head - terribly designed piece of gear! Non cross flow, lousy ports, etc. etc. 4AG head is quite decent. So WHY would you spend who-knows-how-much flowing a 4ac head to still only end up falling well short of a stocky 4ag which can be picked up for a few hundred bucks, and bolt straight in place of the 4ac? The 4ac IS heavily restricted, but the best way to work it is, sadly, to ditch it. It's just not practical to do anything with it when theres such an obvious replacement out there. Plus remember that the money saved by getting a 4ag in place of a 4ac could be spent on cams, headwork, etc. for th 4ac, which will place you SO far in front of the 4ac it just doesn't bear to think about... Oh yeah, plus with a 4ac you're still stuck with the weaker lower comp internals, which would cost a mint to replace if with non factory parts!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Wed, 09 October 2002 02:29
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I'd have to aggree with mrshin as well.
Again, i do like my 4A-C. Nice economical (for its time) reliable engine. But as mrshin points out, its designed for a perpose. To be a an economical round town engine.
The 4A-GE was designed to be a sporty engine right from the early 80's. So it has many small but important things built into it form the start. Better head, cams, pistons, rods etc.
Sure, you can mod a C and get a repesctible level of power out of it, but at the same time, you could drop a stock GE in and get much the same. Its be proved time and again, a stock engine will be more reliable than a moded engine. So if you can get an engine that puts out the power you want in stock form, why mod a lower spec engine up to that power level?
Sure, there are plenty of things you can do to a C to get more out of it, but you will reach the limit of the single cam head long before you would reach the limit of the twin cam. Also, for the same effort and money on a twin cam, the results will be far more rewarding.
On the flip side tho, when i do my 20V conversion, i will be keeping my 4A-C because of its reliability as a spare.
Craig.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sutho/Hills NSW
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Wed, 09 October 2002 04:08
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what kinda mileage did you guys get with ya 4A-C?
i got around 300, 350 on a good where as my mate with the 4age gets around 500.
i am doing the 20valve coversion now and i thought it was a good motor and with 260000 it cracked a head just the other day =/
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Wed, 09 October 2002 04:21
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I don't know how much the pollution gear slows you down on those c motors.
But i'd have too agree...ditch the 4a-c.
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Location:
Face down in a ditch
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Wed, 09 October 2002 04:32
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Guys, thanks for the posts. I will officially condemn my 'work the C' project to the bin, and focus on trying to find the elusive cheap RWD 4A-GE, or belittle myself and install a FWD 4A-GE....
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Wed, 09 October 2002 06:50
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EvilJack: On the open road i can get over 500K (usualy 530 or so) and round town about 420K to a tank of LRP. (this is in an AE82 sedan)
This engine has over 220,000K on it, and the only work done is a new (and cheap!) head gasket when the origional blew last year.
300 to 350 seems awfully low to me...
AE86: Good idea. Finding a RWD GE (16 valve only if original) will be very hard. Almost all conversions for the sprinter use the FWD engines due to availability (AFAIK)
Do a search on the forums, and most of your questions regarding the conversion should be answered!
Craig.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Wed, 09 October 2002 09:35
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Does anyone know how to take the pollution gear off the 4ac??
I hear it removing it gives more power.True???
Does anyone know how to get any extra HP out of a 4ac just for the fun of it. Any ideas?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
South of Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Wed, 09 October 2002 09:48
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Don't want to hijack the thread, but wanna ask this question anyway.
what about a 4afe? they worth spending money on? or same as the C, just chuck it and get a ge, or gze...?
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Wed, 09 October 2002 10:21
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4AF is just a newer 4ac really  Weak as piss, common as all hell, and bloody reliable...
My poor old 4ac used to run on LPG, it'd get anything from 200-500km from a tank - generally closer to 200 because of the way it got treated... But yeah, as a rule, 4AG's seem to be lighter on the fuel when driven nice and gently, because the engine doesn't have to work as hard to pump the air through itself. Plus mine refused to blow a head gasket, despite several busted radiators and the fact that for about 6 months, I had to stop every 50-80km and fill the radiator - whenever the temp gauge went off the dial I would usually be nice enough to stop and fill it... But it was cooked and cooked and cooked, as well as mercilessly revved continually, and still kept on keeping on.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Wed, 09 October 2002 11:33
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i love my newly aquired 4AC i think its a power house! but i just came from a 2AC??? 1.3L AE82 into a well looked after sprinter. GO THE 4AC!!! i spose when the gze is dropped in ill shit myself.
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Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
South of Wollongong
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Wed, 09 October 2002 11:46
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*quote "couldnt you regrind the cams and play silly buggers with the timing? it is a twincam after all................
or just get the GE "
LOL 
yer, and after you've played silly buggers, when ya blow the engine, get the ge.
or gze?? what would people suggest here. 4afe stock as engine atm, only got pod air filter,and 2" exhaust. its done about 210,000kms....
next engine, ze, or ge???
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Fri, 11 October 2002 07:35
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I was once asked to work out the cost of improving the power of the 4AC to around the stock GE mark, I estimated that without the cost of me building it, the stuff needed to be done alone would come to around $1K... the price of a G, having said that Ive have always wanted to do one just for the hell of it and oneday I will, but for a grand heres what I estimated needed to be done to get power.
1. ditch the 4AC crank and use GE one from a 3 rib block, the rods will bolt on to this crank no worries.
2.bench flow the head with maximum possible valve size and a port and polish to boot. then deck the head about 20,000" to up the compression a bit more
3. move up to a 1mm oversize piston
4. custom made extractors with a heatshield to protect the intake manifold a little bit plus some heat wrap may help as well
5. custom intake manifold to suit either a 32/36 (from a escourt or cortina) or 36/36 (from an alfa alfetta) weber IDA carb
6. regrind or preferably a billet upgraded cam, something like a 35/65 would be suitable
7. lightened flywheel and better clutch setup
8. and of course a full balance
9. ditch the clutch driven fan for an electric thermo fan
10. run an oil cooler
you could also add an electronic dizzy, coil packs or better still 3D mapping to improve it further.
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Location:
Face down in a ditch
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Fri, 11 October 2002 08:01
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I like your analysis IRA11Y - it would maintain the reliability of the 4AC, but give a fair bit more usable horsepower and torque.
After all this was done, I suppose the engine would then respond quite favourably to extractors and a decent exhaust.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Fri, 11 October 2002 16:42
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Guy's, do the searching and make new friends.
4AC are admirable, but not sport engines. they do what they are made to do, well!
can anyone say 4AG RWD for $500??????????? inc loom, exh manifold...
I can, I did 
And I have a stripped 4ag for less than half that, tho I recon you look hard enough: $300 for FWD 4AG would come up every-so-often.
Jaz
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
September 2002
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 Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Sat, 12 October 2002 02:48
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jazae86: I sent you a PM about the motor you mentioned
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Sat, 12 October 2002 08:06
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Ummm, before anyone else ask's, I'm not selling my 4AG for $500, that's what I paid for it, and been offered another for $750...you need to be in the right place at the right time
My parts motor has parts missing as I sold them /swapped parts for other goddies.
Just get out there looking, and have spare cash in the bank, money talks, bullshit walks...
Jaz
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Location:
Blue Mountains
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Sun, 13 October 2002 07:03
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| IRA11Y wrote on Fri, 11 October 2002 17:35 |
I was once asked to work out the cost of improving the power of the 4AC to around the stock GE mark, I estimated that without the cost of me building it, the stuff needed to be done alone would come to around $1K... the price of a G, having said that Ive have always wanted to do one just for the hell of it and oneday I will, but for a grand heres what I estimated needed to be done to get power.
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That wouldn't have been me would it Michael?
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Sun, 13 October 2002 11:03
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Singlecam, yeah you were one person I discussed these mods with
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
September 2002
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Location:
Blue Mountains
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Mon, 14 October 2002 06:07
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IRA11Y,
u quoted me around 2 grand. Was that just parts?
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Mon, 14 October 2002 06:15
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Singlecam I cant remeber exactly what I worked out for you do you still have the details?, I doubt I would have included any sort of labour seeing as I dont run a bussines  , maybe I over estimated * shrugs *,
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Mon, 14 October 2002 06:23
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Just thinking about it $1K would be very cheap for those mods when you consider replacing the whole exhaust system alone would probhably be at least $400,
bore and hone $120
new bearings $80
piston kit $230
intake manifold would be at least $200
crank easily $100
carbs $75
cam around $300 for a billet or maybe $150 for regrind
bench flow $????
valves $7 each plus new stem seals and seats and machining
not to mention the gaskets and everything else needed to rebuild and clean the engine down with.
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Location:
Blue Mountains
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Mon, 14 October 2002 06:51
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No worries  I still have the e-mail u sent me. I've been thinking of going down that road slowly. Twice now people have advertised a free 4ac, but when i go to get them there are these mystery complications and things never materialise. Kinda like when i said i was gunna come grab that c off u 
It's all rather irrelevant now as I'm ditching all modern technology and i'm gunna get myslef a horse and cart. It might go faster too 
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Mon, 14 October 2002 10:09
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this might sound silly - but since the 4ac seems to be the dogs breakfast ( bad flowing weak etc ) has anyone pondered a 2t series swap or 3t for single cam possibilities in corollas -
they come already with a good flowing crossflow design , and with some love and tinkering - can produce in excess of 170hp without much fuss ??
i dinno if a sprinter weighs less than a ta22 - but i know my worked ta22 - even in its current sick out of tune form hauls arse like no other 1600 ive driven ..
In all honesty its probably a silly idea when you can get a 4age for cheep thrills and have twin cam goodness - but hey - its just something to throw in there for debate ..
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Mon, 14 October 2002 11:19
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It would be easier to just run with the 4AGE than try to adapt the mounts and stuff around with positioning the 2T and with the same amount of work you get more power..it just costs a little more to work a GE is all, also its easier to compliance than with a 2T where you would have to get an engineering cert.
| Quote: |
since the 4ac seems to be the dogs breakfast ( bad flowing weak etc )
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its only bad flowing compared to a twincam, for a single cam its not "too" bad, compare it to other single cams of its era from other manufacturers and youll find it wasnt that much of a dog.
Like any singlecam non crossflow head it needs some machining to improve the flow, if you spend the money you get the results.
As for being weak I would say I have to totally disagree!. If you service them regularly "as you should" then they will run well indefinately, anyone will tell you I thrash the hell out of my C engines and other than the rings failing at about the 2 year mark I havent had any problems.
I tried to blow up the C engine once I had my GE ready to go in the sprinter..I took my cousin with me so we could tow it home, in a dirt road in the middle of nowhere we thrashed it to pieces for 1 1/2 hrs and it still wouldnt die.
Being the determined bloke I am I threw it in first and dumped the clutch with the foot to the floor for over a minute at 6400rpm with the wheels spinning in the dirt in one spot...It still wouldnt die..I gave up and drove it back home after we rocked it out of the hole , the engine felt as if I had done nothing to it driving back home. It was the original engine and had done 180,000kms from brand new.
[Updated on: Mon, 14 October 2002 11:36]
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Mon, 14 October 2002 13:41
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Yep, The 4AC most definately is not weak. The amount of sadistic maltreatment my little 4A-C has just accepted is phenominal. Ive had my car since 1997 (4A-C '86).
and in that time:
The water pump failed. Which resulted in some massive massive overheating (read: right off the dial) for up to 15mins at a time.
Other times the cooling system has been bone dry, which means more overheating (frying)
There was the time that we flushed the cooling system, It turs out the fresh coolant unclogged a hole in the head and caused coolant to leak into the cylinders. The funny thing is that if we never flushed the system, the hole would have stayed sealed.
As the coolant was leaking into trhe engine, you guessed it, more overheating again.
Then there were the times where i neglected to put oil in it. (Read: bone dry sump for extended, (> 1 week) periods).
All this an it still goes. There have been no internal dramas, the corrosion hole in the head was the largest other than that the little trooper has just soldiered on.
To tell you the truth i dont think you can kill a 4A-C
I once went to a place and told them i was waiting for th 4A-C to die before i put the new engine in and they just smiled and said 'That will be a long time, 4A-C's just dont die'
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Location:
Face down in a ditch
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Mon, 14 October 2002 17:03
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Rex and IRA11Y.....You should be sent to jail for cruelty to engines
I still can't see what the fixation is from some people with putting the GE into the Sprinter. It's unfortunate that the Oz spec Sprinter got jipped big time on some of the components, but the GE is still a pretty gutless motor in the scheme of things. I am still unconvinced that spending around $2500 to put the GE in is really money well spent. There is no way that any 4 series motor is ever going to be a powerhouse, with maybe the exception of the GZE with mega bucks thrown at it.
I am joining singlecam in trying to find free 4AC's and messing around with them.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 15 October 2002 05:39
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No way any 4 series will be a powerhouse?
Ive geard some big statements and some stupid ones but really.
Powerhouse compared to what, 32000hp worth of US tractor-pull machinery?
Just take a look at some of the pulley'd 4AGZE's or 4AGTE or even Bill's Bigport sitting right here in Toymods.
As for mega bucks. You certainly dont need big $$$$ to build a very fast road car 150kw @ the wheels. but, If you're a performance enthusiast and want some grunt under your foot. Then you'll pay for it.
Mega bucks, My 4AGTE has come to less that $1000 dollars so far and is almost done.
Add some ancilliaries and the forseeable cost tops out at less than $2200
Im just as poor, even more so than most of you guys. Buy if you build it yourself over time and look for good deals you'll come out laughing.
Let us know how you go when you're up to $2200 worth of 4A-C
There are reasons that people go for 4AGXX's, because they are well proven, cheap, and make a far better base for any modification.
As for a 4AGEs into '86s, 54kw of bogging down smokey power doesn't really give me the proudest or erections. 86kw - 100kw is a good amount for a young (or very experienced) driver to make the '86 work as it should.
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Location:
Face down in a ditch
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 15 October 2002 09:30
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I'm trying to figure out what you are getting at Rex.
A person with a bit of nouse should have no trouble rebuilding a 4A if they have time and patience, but if the person is new to cars then they should most definitely not attempt the feat (except on an old 4A-C). A newbie trying to build a 4A-GTE is going to need some good friends who know their stuff or it will end in tears.
As I said in my post, the GZE is pretty much the only 4 series motor that is worthy of consideration... super or turbo, it doesn't matter (I assume you didn't read my whole sentence).......There is no way that any 4 series motor is ever going to be a powerhouse, with maybe the exception of the GZE with mega bucks thrown at it......)
I'm sure the number is different for each and every person, but I consider 250kw @ wheels to be what I want in a car - preferably in an R32 Godzilla . 150kw would be very, very nice though, particularly in a Sprinter, but I'm sure it will cost a huge amount of money if all the work is done by a mechanic.
The whole purpose of my post was to discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of the 4A-C and what simple mods can be done to it to up the hp by a decent amount, not to make it a fire breathing monster. The simple fact is that 50kw is not enough hp even for a daily drive IMO
Want to sell me your motor for $1000?
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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 15 October 2002 10:06
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the 4ag is a better engine(than the 4ac) to begin with - no doubt.
but what do you do when you tire of it and want more?
how can you cheaply modify it?
where do you get cams for it at a reasonable price?
and even if you can find some at a decent price, how is the stock ecu gunna handle it?
I estimate it would cost you at least $1500 to get an 4ag upto 120kw (consisting of cams and programmable ecu).
so the 4ag is cheap as an inital purchase but expensive to get any real power out of.
so if you want decent performace forget the 4age and go straight to the gze.
anyone agree?
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 15 October 2002 10:17
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i reakon...Bullies~!~!~.alrite...i lurve me 4a-fc..........hahah..its not the best but hey hell reliable..rite....
my car ae92 4a-fc engine...is great...had a nicefew drags..no dramas....
l8ers JIM
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Location:
Face down in a ditch
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 15 October 2002 11:21
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Chrisss and Bliz. I agree 100%
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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 Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 15 October 2002 11:33
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ae86...hehe..great to have ur morale support..dude...haha 
NUTTIN WRONG WIF 4a-fc engine.`!~!~!~!
lol
JIM
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Wed, 16 October 2002 10:29
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Chriss,
I guess well see soon enough what a few "simple" mods will produce
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Thu, 17 October 2002 00:18
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few mods.. i reakon its goin to do great ofcrouse...what u guys reakon?
JIM
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Location:
melb
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Thu, 17 October 2002 10:07
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hope it does, love to see a 4ac kick a 4ag's ass.
rekon they could make upto 160hp fully worked. maybe 130hp with a downdraft carb.
realy depends on how well you could get the head flowing.
dont know if it would be cheap tho.
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Thu, 17 October 2002 13:28
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haha...yeh i want to c that 2...lol wouldnt mind that..
really 160 shit man..thats pretty good...
my ae92 is pretty good for speed..i dunno..its somehow modified by the last owner, and he was mechanic for sports cars...haha.me so previalge..to have some done the job 4 me..
ahah..l8ers all
JIM
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Fri, 18 October 2002 10:10
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4AC VS 4AGE...Hmmm...Let me think (LOL)
Having owned a 4AC powered AE71 CS-X Corolla, and a 100KW powered KE70 XX Corolla, let me tell you that I can categorically state that the KE is a MUCH quicker car...
Yes, it cost me a lot of money to get the GE installed (too much, frankly, but I wasn't in a position to DIY, so that's to be expected...)
It's nice to know that I can sit at the lights next to most normal (read pedestrian!) cars like stock V6 Camrys etc and, if I want to get into the 2-1 lane in front, I can...
My 4AG is a stock 100KW version with extractors and a 2.5" system, running a stock ECU. Let me assure you, however, that it goes quite reasonably...
Yes, the 4AC is reliable and....little else! The 4AG is also reliable, but tends not to last as long due it's (and it's drivers') propensity for BIG revs. (Try bouncing a 4AC of a 7600RPM rev limiter...you'll get the idea!
Just my 2c.
[Updated on: Fri, 18 October 2002 10:15]
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Fri, 18 October 2002 14:39
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Try bouncing a 4AC of a 7600RPM rev limiter...you'll get the idea!
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hah nah i dunt really can u explain..
so u reakon my ae92 is shit?.....
l8ers JIM
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Sat, 19 October 2002 03:00
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I would be very suprised to see 160Hp from a C
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Sat, 19 October 2002 07:56
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Bah,
If you can make 160 ponies from a 4A-C ill eat my hat.
If you do though, take a look at the smoking great hole where your wallet used to be and think how cheap/nice it would be to have dead standard 20v or lightly tweaked 4A-GE
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Sat, 19 October 2002 09:30
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really..shit..do u guys sayin that 4a-fc engines are craP....
they not really are they..seriuos...if so i;m goin to sell it straight away.........lol
l8ers all jIM
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Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Sat, 19 October 2002 10:57
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oh really..haha...so what does this mean?...a candiate
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BTW. I don't think your '92 is shit...I think it's actually a great candidate for a 4AG/ZE swap...
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issert meeant to be bad or good..lol
hahll8ers all
jim
fanx baised
btw...how much revs can 4a-fc get?
coz uno it doesn;t have ne rev tachno
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Sun, 20 October 2002 11:16
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How hard can it rev? Not very... Does it matter? nah not really... But by all means go and buy a massive tacho and bolt it to the dash - that way you look like every other, er, (whats the word??)
...oh, and don't forget some blue lights!
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Sun, 20 October 2002 23:44
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Massive tachs are for...(*insert appropriate term here*)
I prefer to use the standard OEM tach.
In fact, if you saw my car in the street, you would probably not pick it from any other KE70 going around...Which is just the way I like it.
As for revs, the 4AG doesn't make any real power 'till quite high in the range (max at 6800RPM), so yes, there is a point to it being able to rev freely.
The 4AC, on the other hand, doesn't really make much power anywhere in the rev range, thus there is not much need to rev one
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Mon, 21 October 2002 00:22
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| biased99 wrote on Mon, 21 October 2002 09:44 |
The 4AC, on the other hand, doesn't really make much power anywhere in the rev range, thus there is not much need to rev one
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Thats gold.... (not having a dig at the C boys but thats damm funny)
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Mon, 21 October 2002 02:05
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hahah..u guys wanna know somfin.....good drivers don;t need a tacho. they feel their own cars....and plus we dont have to take our eyes of the roads...where pplz have tacho they do
l8ers all
JIM
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Mon, 21 October 2002 13:43
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My 4ac had some top shelf mods when I had it:
Busted radiator
Busted fan
LPG conversion, with impco gas carb in place of the normal carb
Pieces of exhaust missing
There was a certain hill where I used to be able to get the tacho off the end of its scale passing logging trucks on the way down. No idea how I did it, but hey... As for feeling a car, yes I could sure feel that, and it didn't feel nice! But yeah, I agree, I don't make that much use of the (stocky!) tacho in mine.
Also, anyone ever noticed the number of VN commodores with such extensive mods as a piece of something shiny on the end of the tailpipe with tacho's the size of Big Ben? Next time you see one, lemme know just how far up the scale they can actually GET that needle. These are one car where its pretty much impossible to actually discover the standard management has even GOT a rev limiter set in it. (Yeah, course I've done it, but it sure ain't productive...)
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Mon, 21 October 2002 23:05
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A 4AC to 7100...Only about 5000 above it's useable power!
As for my KE, It was pretty much just a swap in and wiring (I didn't do this) and then get an engineer's report, take it over the pits (whilst getting engine numbers recorded etc) and that was it...
It had to be done on a "budget" (used somewhat loosely, given that I didn't DIY) so I wanted to retain the stock brakes, if they were going to be up to it. (Bear in mind that this is a daily run-around car) So I swapped the pads for newies, got the system bled while it was in the shop (and they were fitting another diff assembly to it) and had them chuck DOT4 fluid in.
It isn't great for stopping, but weighs sweet FA, so still pulls up O.K from most reasonable speeds...
As for Eastern Creek, I don't think my suspension (or brakes!) would be up to that. If I upgrade both at some point down the track, you might be on...
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Location:
adel
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 22 October 2002 00:23
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hahahalo dam tacho....
ok guys to be honest...how much can a 4a-fc engine revs can go..coz in my ae92 i have a K&N airfilter in it..n i heard that i can have a 10-20 xtra kz in each gear. (which i learnt from some forum and so i went and bought it dam expensive thou.= but worth it)
soso...u guys know how much revs it can go...coz uno.i don;t have a tacho..but can feel...how much it is doin..lol....arghh i duNOO...
somthing like that
l8ers all
JIM
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 22 October 2002 01:22
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7600 is the rev limiter in a 1998 corolla.... i found this out doin burnouts on a paved drive way in the wet in my mum's old car (before she rolled it coming home from work  )it had a 4AFE in it.
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 22 October 2002 01:37
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I own a VN bus and those things...been a while since I checked but around 5800-6200, it jumps around alot if you hold it in first. And before you all go telling me my cars as good as a wheelbarrow in a bicycle race, i know.
At least it's not a hyundai.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 22 October 2002 01:40
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Does that K&N lampshade release that much extra grunt, or does it SOUND like extra grunt because of the constant 'bbbwwwwoooooaaarrrrr'??
As for how many revs, I'll take my sisters AE92 for a burl sometime and letcha know - although from memory its pretty unproductive going too far above 5 grand.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 22 October 2002 01:53
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Sure that jumping around a lot isn't:
 Pistons hitting the bonnet
Trans dropping its guts
Harmonic balancer dancing the tango
damn I love VNs
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Why no love for the 4A-C? Bullies!!
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Tue, 22 October 2002 01:55
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Awww yeah, I've got nothing against commodores - they perform their intended function (cheap large family car) very well - but a stock VN V6 is NOT a performance car - some people just don't get it...
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