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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Wed, 03 August 2005 06:13
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Hey guys, Friends 3sge has been burning oil for awhile now, got around to trying to fix it. Orginally thought it was rings, did a comp test and got 190PSI on all cylinders. Thought valve stem seals might of been the cuase, so changed all of those with the head still on, and apparaently the oil burning issues have now become worse.
Would this indicate the rings? or perhaps the valve stem seals still (perhaps one or two seals wern't pressed in properly and are traveling up and down with the valve instead of stopping oil going into the combustion chamber?)
Any sure method tricks to determin the cuase? was thinking PCV valve might also be a culprit.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Wed, 03 August 2005 06:20
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yeah whack a can on the PCV and see if you get much oil
That's my guess 
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Wed, 03 August 2005 06:28
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THAT'S WHAT I WILL TRY FIRST THING TONIGHT! thanx!
also
Becuase the compression was 190psi on all cylinders, that doesn't nessicary mean the rings aren't at fualt? very hard to know i suppose, the oil burning appeaers to be worse after renwing the valve stem seals. My brain is in limp home mode right now, can't think straight right now. Really hope it's not the rings, and i really hope it's not a valve stem seal not in place properly. As i'd have to go taking the valve collets/springs out again with the head still on to check them all = not fun!!
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Location:
Hobart
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Wed, 03 August 2005 11:30
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i know a girl that had a 3GSE in a ST162 which ran out of oil on a long trip, then my mates dad brought a ST162 with a blown motor due to the fact it ran out of oil, and now my sister owns an ST162 and i always tell her to top up her oil because i hear of them going through it all the time, if you were going to work out what was causing it i would be intereseted to know.
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Wed, 03 August 2005 11:41
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My g/fs st162 with ge burns plenty of oil.
Would also be interested to know what you find.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Wed, 03 August 2005 11:48
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well what i can tell you is that the oil consumption isn't a problem related to the PCV. No problems there.
I did a dry and a wet compression test, readings dry were around 190PSI on all cylinders, readings wet (added some oil into the spargk plug hole) cuases the readings to shoot up to 215-220PSI.
That is quite a difference, But probably about right for an engine that has done 240,000k's? 190PSI seems healthy still and shouldn't be a problem but i could be totally wrong there. Also i'm still not sure if the oil ring can be a problem with oil consumtion even tho 190PSI shows up.
Would be interesting to hear other 162/3sge owners compression results and weather they are burning oil or not.
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Location:
Adelaide - Race Central
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Wed, 03 August 2005 12:31
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unfortunately, the series of 3sge's in the st162 has had problems where oil is pushed back into the intake system, and is burnt through the car. hence, the excess oil consumption!
I found out the very shocked way, when, driving at about 200kmph, the car suddenly bellowed smoke out the exhaust! I thought i blew the engine, but it was all good, compression was all goo too, so i thought the air pipe was loose causing a lean mix.
but when the car went on the dyno, it happened again and finally, some 6 months later, we (tuner and myself) think we have found the cause. oil pressure in the sump is very high, and when driven, causes oil to be pushed up the engine and eventually exit through the only place it has! the blow-by system which leads into the intake manifold, which then burns the oil!
I'm in the process of getting a solution, and if this is similar to what you guys have experienced, i'll let you know how it all works out.
when it first happened, the tuner thought the motor blew aswell, but the compression check came back fine and the spark plugs never looked better! so it was another problem, currently, the solution is to make a breather system for the sump! hopefully, this will fix the problem!
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Wed, 03 August 2005 14:55
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To be honest compression readings won't tell the whole story, sure your compression rings might be operating fine, but your oil rings could be either worn, or clogged up - and you will still get a good compression reading. If the oil rings are worn or not functioning properly (ie gunked up), then you will be able to burn plenty of oil, and still have good compression.
Another reason why we should always check the service history of a car - missed oil filter changes can cause many headaches 
jonchai -> I dunno if you mean high oil pressure or simply high air pressure in the sump. The sump probably does need some form of breathing, which from stock is non-existant.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Wed, 03 August 2005 15:14
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have you checked to see how much out might be coming out of the two breather hoses (one attaches to the throttle body, the other to the flexy from TB to air box (some models don't have this))
just an idea...... 
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Thu, 04 August 2005 00:32
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I checked the pipe going to the throttle body come from the cam cover. Taped a coke bottle on and whent for a drivee (more of a thrash) Anyway nothing much came out and doesn't seem like the oil is bieng burnt thru there.
Will check this other breather you talk of.
RWDboy, i figured there was a chance the comp test might not really tell me the full story. And i was thinking the oil rings could be the problem, but only way to find out is take them out of the engine to inspect.
Would you be worried tho if the comp test whent from 190 to 210psi (wet then dry test) If it were your engine? .
Jonchai. My friend who owns the celica told me a story very simular to yours!! only a few weeks ago. He said he was driving along and something whent bang and a hell of a lot of smoke came pouring out the exuast. He thought he blew his engine but it was fine still. Veyry interesting!!!
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Thu, 04 August 2005 01:56
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Blowing big-ass chunks of oil out the back could also be the result of over-filling 
As for the compression readings, I'm not 100% sure but they sound fair to me, as long as it's fairly even over all four cylinders.
By the way, I've never used a compression test thingo - how exactly do they operate, take spark plug out, put compression thingo in - and then what? Turn engine over on starter, or by hand or ... ?
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Thu, 04 August 2005 02:01
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yer, take all your sparkies out then just hand twist it into the hole
crank over 7 times or so
look at the meter, release pressure, unwind, move to next cylinder
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Thu, 04 August 2005 03:20
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Yeah and also pull out your EFI fuse, and open your throttle up all the way to get as much air in as possible. Stop cranking once the pressure has got to it's highest point and won't go any further on the guage.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Thu, 04 August 2005 05:56
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Rang toyota and got onto a mechanic there, and told him the story, He agreed the compression sounded good, and didn't think the crankcase pressure or PCV system was a problem. He said and i quote "we find with these sorts of engines and also the 4age's that around that sort of milage the pistons tend to be worn out and not the rings"
Seemed to me that he didn't really know what he was talking about, maybe he does, but when i told him about the PCV and crankcase pressure possibilty he didn't really have a clue.
One thing to note and my step dad also noted was the amount of hot air/blow by coming out of the head with the oil cap off, he thought that was way more then most engines. (if you blow into your hand really fast, well it's more then that, but pulsating not constant)
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Location:
Adelaide - Race Central
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Thu, 04 August 2005 09:52
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I doubt many mechanics will know about the blow by issue. It took my tuner/mechanic a long while to figure out this 'possible' issue and he has dealt with many-a-3SG(T)E.
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Fri, 05 August 2005 02:55
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Piston wear ey? That's an interesting one. Maybe the skirt could have worn down, I suppose you could always pull the pistons out and measure them  Only takes about 3-4 hours of work to get them out, and about 4-5 to get it all back in.
*sigh*
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
December 2004
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Fri, 05 August 2005 14:08
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I wouldn't call it a 'weak' point so much as a design decision. Look how much room there is between bores - bore wear is going to be an issue unless the rings are made reasonably soft (and the tolerance on the piston skirt is quite high). As such they get a fair bit of blow by (because the piston can't be too tight) and the rings wear down because you don't want to have to re-sleave them after they've done 200,000km. I'll take piston ring wear over excessive bore wear and re-sleaving any day.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 3sge burning LOTS of oil!
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Sat, 06 August 2005 00:08
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yes it all boils down to pretty much the same outcome though is what im trying to say mr technical
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