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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 24 August 2005 08:16
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Im starting to get the list down on to rebuild a JDM 4AGE 16V. They include
- Valves
- Valve Springs
- Cams
- Cam Sprockets
- Full Gasket Set (ACL)
- Timing Belt
- Spark Plugs
- Left, Right and Rear Engine Mounts
- Pistons and Rings
Is there anything missing?
Would the full gasket set have every little thing i need?
Also, I have had two problems with getting pistons/rings for them. 1st one is that the 4AGE from 86-87 has a 18.00 pin diameter and the 87-89 has a 20.00 diameter and than the 89-91 has a 20.00 diameter aswell but the 89-91 apparently the pistons have been lowered for compression. Which one is for the 4AGE 16V JDM??? And then there is either STD/0.50/1.00 pistons and then STD/0.50/1.0/1.500/2.800 rings. How am I going to know????
Cheers
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 24 August 2005 09:40
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I assume yours is a 16v bigport so you'll have the pistons with the 18mm pins. To be sure, check how many ribs on the side of the block... it should be 3.
STD/0.50/1.00 refers to the piston diameter. If your bores have been worn down excessively, you'll need to overbore and rehone them. Anything over an 82.5-83mm bore is too much i reckon as the walls between the bores become too thin.
You need bearings as well. There is also a crapload of engine prep work that needs to be done, ie, check/clean water/oil pumps, resetting tappets/clearances etc. Are you doing the rebuild yourself?
Also, if you don't need new valves... don't get them. I would suggest you strip down the engine 1st, and then see what parts you need replaced before you go ordering a heap of stuff you don't need.
Eddie.
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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 24 August 2005 09:47
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Thanks for that info. Yes, i forgot about the conrod and main bearings. Is that everything you can think of?
I looked in a ACL book for gaskets and with the MR2 AW11 and the AE corollas and apparantly the intake manifolds are the different but what I found wierd is that they said that the MR2 requires 2 valve cover gaskets but the corrolla's require 1 but there were both the same part no. I say that just did a boo boo.
Im not actually doing it, a mechanic is but im getting all the parts etc.
Cheers
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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 24 August 2005 09:49
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Oh and I have a new water pump on there (about 3000km old) but not sure about the oil pump. Will have to look that up tomorrow.
Cheers
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 24 August 2005 10:05
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Just make sure you get the gasket kit with the proper gaskets for the manifolds. It should have 2 in there... one for the TVIS and one for the head.
If you're also planning on running Toyota genuine coolant or any coolant with anti-freeze in it... you'll need the genuine water gaskets from toyota.
The ACL gasket kit is graphite based so the anti-freeze will eat the gaskets and you'll have water leaks in less than a year.
Eddie.
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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 24 August 2005 10:24
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So when it comes to getting the full gasket set it doesn't really matter which one I get as the intake manifold gaskets will be coming from Toyota?
Also, do you recommed which size piston and rings to get?
Cheers
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 24 August 2005 11:04
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No no no... it doesn't matter which intake gaskets you get (although they're metal and re-usable from Toyota). I mean that ANY WATER GASKETS should be genuine Toyota if you plan on using anti-freeze coolant.
Get whichever pistons your engine builder recommends. And then get whichever rings suit those pistons. If your bore isn't worn, you can go std and just rehone. Don't go for massive overbore simply for the capacity gain... it's not worth it.
Eddie.
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 24 August 2005 11:20
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what makes you say non genuine gaskets will leak coolant in a year? i use non genuine water gaskets, changed a few some 3 years ago and am using genuine coolant, no probs so far. are you relaying this from someone else or is this your experience? why would they make water gaskets that would be eaten away by coolant? its just paper anyway.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 24 August 2005 13:14
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Finally found the link where i'd read it... i've got super-slow net atm. (damn dl limits!  )
http://www.twincam.org/forums/index.php?showtopic= 12248
It's near the bottom of the 1st post under the "assembly" bit.
I also asked my engine builder about this to check and he said it's the anti-freeze in the coolant, not the coolant itself that degrades the graphite gasket material. The 2 options were to:
1. Use a coolant that doesn't have anti-freeze pre-mixed (genuine red coolant DOES)
2. Get the genuine gaskets which are metal.
But with that said... if you're not having any problems using them with anti-freeze, i got no idea.  I didn't want to use anything other than toyota red so for the sake of 15 bucks, i got metal gaskets to eliminate any risk.
Eddie.
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 24 August 2005 20:31
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| feral4mr2 wrote on Wed, 24 August 2005 23:42 |
i've never had any problem running after market gaskets (both ACL and AJUSA and good ol silasitc  ) with non toyota coolants that contain anti-freeze.
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Also, I have had two problems with getting pistons/rings for them. 1st one is that the 4AGE from 86-87 has a 18.00 pin diameter and the 87-89 has a 20.00 diameter and than the 89-91 has a 20.00 diameter aswell but the 89-91 apparently the pistons have been lowered for compression.
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the only thing you need to worry about with the rings in getting the right set is the top ring gap/groove on the piston, the 2 difference are 1.5mm vs 1.2mm ring gap. measure the top ring gap with some verniers. C1741 is the ACL part # for 1.5mm ring gap and C1806 for the 1.2mm ring gap. then you just gotta know if you want STD or oversized.
measure your crank where the conrod goes onto, if it's 40mm then you will need the 18mm pin piston and if it's 42mm then it's the 20mm pin piston.
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Is there anyway finding that stuff out without ripping the engine apart?
Cheers
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 24 August 2005 20:56
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Big T mentioned before about how many ribs your engine has.?
if it's a 3 rib then it'll have the 18mm pin piston, but if it's a 7 rib it 'could' have either 18mm or 20mm pin piston. easiest way to find that out is measure the crank where the conrod goes by just dropping the sump, pulling a conrod cap and measureing the crank.
there still a seems to be a problem then with the top ring gap if it's a 20mm pin piston there is listings for both the 1.5mm gap and the 1.2mm gap rings. the 18mm pin piston looks to only have the 1.5mm top ring gap.
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Is there anyway finding that stuff out without ripping the engine apart?
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wheres the fun in that? 
do you have any pics of your engine?
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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 24 August 2005 21:01
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I just had a look at the inlet manifold gaskets on the MR2 and Corrolla and both seem to be the same size but the MR2 has 8 small holes and the Corrolla has 4 big holes.
Cheers
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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 24 August 2005 21:51
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I just had a look at the inlet manifold gaskets on the MR2 and Corrolla and both seem to be the same size but the MR2 has 8 small holes and the Corrolla has 4 big holes.
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Sounds like you are looking at big port (8 small holes) and small port (4 big holes) gaskets. Get the one that suits your engine (ie. if it has TVIS go for the one with 8 holes)
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Thu, 25 August 2005 09:05
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the bigport t-vis inlet manifold uses 2 gaskets in total, 1 has the 8 holes for the inlet manifold to t-vis plate and 1 has the 4 oval shaped holes for t-vis plate to head.
when i rebuilt my bigport 4age/gte i had trouble sourceing the t-vis to head gasket as all the ones i got from my supliers through work where to suit a smallport head. i had to get the bigport gasket from toyota (t-vis plate to head).
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Thu, 25 August 2005 11:57
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You can get a gasket kit from ACL with the TVIS gasket and the head gasket in the one pack. Get the one that's meant for an ae82 corolla from 87-89 (i think). If you look through the ACL book... somehow page 415 sounds right by memory. It should be in the far left hand column.
Eddie.
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Thu, 25 August 2005 12:43
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there are 2 full gasket kits listed, GN390MT (86-89) and GR901MT (90-94).
JC578 should be the inlet to t-vis plate gasket and JC879 should be the t-vis to head gasket, problem is mine came as a smallport gasket not a bigport (the JC879). when i rang the suppliers they didnt even know there was a bigport/smallport engine.
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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Thu, 25 August 2005 21:13
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| feral4mr2 wrote on Thu, 25 August 2005 22:43 |
there are 2 full gasket kits listed, GN390MT (86-89) and GR901MT (90-94).
JC578 should be the inlet to t-vis plate gasket and JC879 should be the t-vis to head gasket, problem is mine came as a smallport gasket not a bigport (the JC879). when i rang the suppliers they didnt even know there was a bigport/smallport engine.
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The MR2 and AE82 use the GN390MT (86-89) which should come with the JC578. So what you are saying is that I need to buy a JC879 aswell???
Cheers
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Fri, 26 August 2005 02:09
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| Initial_D wrote on Fri, 26 August 2005 07:13 |
The MR2 and AE82 use the GN390MT (86-89) which should come with the JC578. So what you are saying is that I need to buy a JC879 aswell???
Cheers
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the JC578 is the gasket with the 8 runner ports to match the inlet manifold (yes it comes in the GN390MT ACL full gasket kit), and yes you still need the gasket that goes between the t-vis plate and head. the JC879 was not the right one, it was to match a smallport head not a bigport (well the one i received was!).
as TopSecret72 just said and i said above in one of my posts the t-vis plate to head gasket has to be bought from toyota. though i do not remember the part number of what that was.
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The metal TVIS gasket (the one with 8 holes) will have to be bought from Toyota too.
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that is the ACL JC578 gasket, just not a metal one like the toyota one is.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Fri, 26 August 2005 09:10
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| TopSecret72 wrote on Fri, 26 August 2005 08:28 |
ACL don't make a full set for the TVIS equipped 4AGE, only for the smallport.
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Hmm that's strange because i got a full gasket set for a bigport 4age with the mani to tvis + tvis to head gasket from ACL.
I actually didn't order it myself but went through the catalogue with my engine builder to get the right one. I'll double check the tvis to head gasket on Monday when i go and put the head on but im 95% sure all the gaskets were the right ones.
Eddie.
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Location:
Wollongong
Registered:
January 2005
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Fri, 26 August 2005 10:32
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Well, when I went searching for the bigport gasket set at the engine reconditioner I got my gear through, he couldn't find anything for the bigport only for the smallport. You are probably right Big T, ACL most likely make a set for it.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Fri, 26 August 2005 12:19
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More on valvetrain:
Seat locators
Retainers
Valve locks
Shims
Valve guides
Other stuff:
Bearings
Sump Goo
Thermostat
Welsh plugs
Head studs
Main studs
Rod bolts
To be honest your probably best just disassembling it yourself and then letting the engine builder buy the internals... you'll find that most engine builders can get better pricing than us mere mortals on things like pistons, rods, valvetrain parts etc.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Fri, 26 August 2005 12:31
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so what exactly is the going rate for a rebuild on a 4AGE smallport 100kw 16v?
Parts?
Labour?
Just that i will be purchasing one soon that is suitable for a rebuild 
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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Sat, 27 August 2005 09:53
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Welsch plugs and bolts and stuff most mechanics should be able to get?
I will probably be running 256 maybe 264 degree cams and heavy duty valve springs.
Con-rods and the crank should be fine to clean and keep, right?
Cheers
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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Sat, 27 August 2005 09:57
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| Big T wrote on Fri, 26 August 2005 19:10 |
| TopSecret72 wrote on Fri, 26 August 2005 08:28 |
ACL don't make a full set for the TVIS equipped 4AGE, only for the smallport.
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Hmm that's strange because i got a full gasket set for a bigport 4age with the mani to tvis + tvis to head gasket from ACL.
I actually didn't order it myself but went through the catalogue with my engine builder to get the right one. I'll double check the tvis to head gasket on Monday when i go and put the head on but im 95% sure all the gaskets were the right ones.
Eddie.
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What part number was the gakset set you got?
Cheers
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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Sun, 28 August 2005 09:33
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I was just talking to the guy who owned it before me (he did the engine transplant) and the donor car was a AE86 from Japan. Does that help at all with working out the piston pin size?
Cheers
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Sun, 28 August 2005 09:59
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by rights the AE86 should be a 3 rib bigport with the 18mm gudgeon pin.
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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 31 August 2005 07:47
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I don't have my car at the moment so I can't check this rib thing you are talking about on the side of the block. Are the conrod bearings, main bearings, oil pump all the same throughout all of the 4AGE's?
Cheers
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Wed, 31 August 2005 12:43
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Are the conrod bearings, main bearings, oil pump all the same throughout all of the 4AGE's?
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the mains bearings are the same size, but the early 3 rib has a 40mm conrod bearing compared to a 42mm conrod bearing in the later 7 rib blocks.
'most' of the info on this site is correct. i think there might be something about the oil pumps down the page, i have read on certain site/forums about differences in the oil pumps between some of the variations of 4age, but havnt dealt with any of them myself.
http://www.users.bigpond.com/vidore/toyota_4age_en gine.htm
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Location:
Queensland
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Fri, 02 September 2005 06:42
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Where do I look for these 3 or 7 ribs? Under the manifolds?
Cheers
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Location:
Bundaberg, Qld.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Rebuild 4AGE - HELP!!!
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Fri, 02 September 2005 11:22
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under the inlet manifold there are vertical ribs, heres a pic of my 7 rib block.
the 3 rib block doesnt have #'s 1, 3, 5, 7.
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