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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Wed, 07 January 2004 07:25
 
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I knew it wouldn't be long before you could no longer handle the heat.  Little boys often fail under the pressure 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Wed, 07 January 2004 07:30
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Actually, I think he's still fixated with the Benny Hill version of 911.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Wed, 07 January 2004 09:24
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| T APLUS 22 wrote on Wed, 07 January 2004 16:26 |
Any man would of taken him out? a rush like that could have cost someone their life in the process.
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I would say the chance of one of the passengers being killed or maimed in such an action is so high, I would call it certain. Your not just dealing with a knife wielding maniac, your dealing with three knife wielding maniacs who would prefer to die killing you than get away and fight another day.
The first thing you learn when learning knife fighting, or how to defend against a knife is this: "You will get cut."
Also, they probably took the women as hostages. If they had a knife to the flight attendants throat, what would you do? Have him kill her (or him) so you can be the hero?
They aren't like most people you meet who are all "Oooh, I'm so tough, I could STAB you!" No, these people are "I'm going to stab you, and then I'm gonna stab your friends, and I don't care if I die doing it." Isn't that... fucking terrifying to you? How do you fight that? How do you combat someone who cares more about your death than they do about their own life?!
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Wed, 07 January 2004 10:42
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*ridiculous, hollow arguments make baby jesus cry*
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Wed, 07 January 2004 12:52
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there's all types of people in this world, and I'm bringing out the fact that there may be at least 1 people out of the hundreds that would've felt appropriate at that moment to have jumped out..
* basically what you are trying to say is, it is stupid to have jumped at the terrorist, because YOU think it would've got someone killed
* but doesn't mean NO ONE would've jumped out and tried to be a hero?
* As you are trying say that every man on that plane would've been thinking EXACTLY what you're thinking this moment, and none of us have been in that situation, so how do you know EVERYONE would be thinking and doing EXACTLY the same way as you are think they would?
As it goes back to my first point that there's all types of people in this world, and it just shows how single minded you are.
* As the media tells us (I still don't believe nor totally dis-agree that this story is true, as we can't prove it, the only teller of this story is the media and the story sounds like propaganda), as the media tells us that the passenger on the plane overtook the terrorist on the flight that disappeared (blown in pieces in mid-air, that's no way I would believe the plane crashed) in Pennsylvania desert, if this story is true (passenger overtook terrorist) This story will instantly prove that you are wrong by thinking everyone would have just let the terrorist do their job. Because obviously not everybody thinks the same thing as you.
but let's concentrate on the fire inside the WTC, eye witness reports and photos shows there wasn't a 800C fire inside the WTC, but the media told us the 800C fire brought down the tower?
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_fire.htm
[Updated on: Wed, 07 January 2004 12:59]
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Wed, 07 January 2004 14:14
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I'm not saying some people wouldn't do it, I'm saying that unless your retarded, expect to give your life, or spend at least 2 hours a day training in some form of unarmed combat you wouldn't take on four armed psychopaths.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Wed, 07 January 2004 15:04
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I wonder how many people, out of say 400, would try to disarm 3-4 guys with knives, who almost certainly had young, good looking female flight attendants as hostages?
disregard for your own life is fine - I've got a fairly low regard for my own life. But the lives of others? That's a whole different story.
I think that out of 400 people, perhaps 1 or 2 wouldn't care about having 2 or 3 women killed so they could be a hero.
And I'd guess that thsoe 1 or 2 people were on the pensylvannia flight.
of course, once it turns into a melee, and people are dying anyhow, lots more people would have the guts to dive in and help out, but it takes a very rare combination of guts and cold-heartedness to attack a person, knowing an innocent is almost certainly going to die as a result of your actions
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Wed, 07 January 2004 15:16
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and whatever that crap was about "the 2 buildings imploding, so why did the other building collapse".... have a look at that video link posted - the second tower to fall sprayed massive chunks of concrete for a block in every direction... I'm amazed that didn't bring down more than 1 building!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Wed, 07 January 2004 15:34
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This photograph shows the aircraft impact area of WTC 1.
A closer look shows a survivor looking out from the impact area:
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Wed, 07 January 2004 22:11
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Crap. You dont realise it's so big until you see that person! 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Wed, 07 January 2004 23:08
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Not convinced it's a person. I think it is a fortuitous alignment of debris and flame. I remember watching it all that night - people were hanging (and jumping) out of windows at least 3-4 floors away. Any closer and the conditions must have been frightful.
The attackers chose long haul routes early in the morning on the quietest travelling day of the week so as to minimise the number of people they would have to overpower. They needed planes (hopefully with plenty of fuel), not bargaining chips.
The 911 attacks were a master stroke of genius by Al Qaeda. They took advantage of every systemic weakness and exploited it to full effect.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Wed, 07 January 2004 23:12
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We need one of those enhancing pieces of software that they always have in the movies to make a picture crystal clear even when you blow it up to 100 times it's original size. 
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Wed, 07 January 2004 23:56
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| draven wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 01:34 |
I wonder how many people, out of say 400, would try to disarm 3-4 guys with knives, who almost certainly had young, good looking female flight attendants as hostages?
of course, once it turns into a melee, and people are dying anyhow, lots more people would have the guts to dive in and help out, but it takes a very rare combination of guts and cold-heartedness to attack a person, knowing an innocent is almost certainly going to die as a result of your actions
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I'm betting a lot more would now post-September 11.
Plus this was a hostage situation like no other - the hi-jackers planned to die from the start. No-one in the planes could have predicted that they were headed for a fiery death, since most hostage situations until now were resolved without much loss of life. People would have been frightened but thinking they'd be rescued eventually. The passengers on the 4th plane only got motivated to try and overpower the attackers when they knew what had happened to the other planes.
I can't believe this argument has raged for so bloody long. What a pointless waste of time for everyone and hard-drive space on the precious toy-mods server!! 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 01:04
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| Caledwvech wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 10:12 |
We need one of those enhancing pieces of software that they always have in the movies to make a picture crystal clear even when you blow it up to 100 times it's original size.
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They don't have those. You can't do that!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 01:14
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Haha, you can't look at something if the information simply isn't there At best the software would be estimating what it is 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 01:20
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that pic kinda reminds me of the Jesus in the trees, Jesus in the clouds pics, as that "person" kinda looks like JC
or even the Mary railing at that sydney beach (bondi?)
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 01:31
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| gianttomato wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 10:08 |
Not convinced it's a person. I think it is a fortuitous alignment of debris and flame.
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It sure looks like a person to me, you can see her legs, pants, arms, entire body.
Shes bracing her self against the building so that she does not fall down as well. The color of her clothes as well as her hair are totaly different from the rest of the debree, last time i checked debree didn't have blonde hair
Also, on that site gt20v posted there is a recorded audio clip from the fire men and they are quite calm. They state that there is only a small fire and that they can have it under control with just 2 trucks. An 800c inferno is what must exist to melt the steel, or weaken it. But with that lady standing there i doubt there is an inferno, maybe the temperatures did exist but no way was it enuff to bring down and entire building.
If anyone has a scan of, or has the original newspaper with this image on it go and check to see that it hasn't been photoshoped. You'll be able to see if that person is there or not even on an unzoomed image.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 01:38
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Dude, when a building burns, and thing get hot, very very hot, how long do you reckon it would take before you could stand on/hold onto metal?
Quite a while.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 01:38
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considering how many of the conspiracy theorists points have been proven completely wrong by various people, I'm amazed this is still going.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 01:42
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It's because it DOESN'T have to be logical for them
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:08
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I'll shut up once someone can explain against my opinion about the siesmic graph. About why there are absolutly massive amounts of siesmic activity before the colapse of the wtc, take note that the building collapsed from the top down and that the load of the building should build up into large siesmic activity as the building falls. Instead there was a massive amount of siesmic activity before the building collapsed. There are numerous account wittnesses of people saying they heard many explosions as the building came down, the media said that these were exploding gas mains. We're talking about a 100+ story building, it would have definatly had a fail safe system for the gas so that its turned off.
Also, if there was a 800c inferno going on, that fire would require a lot of air, but there simply isn't enuff volume for the air to move threw into the fire to fuel it. The firemen themselves said that there were only 2 managable fires in the 2nd building and that they could have it undercontroll. Are you going to argue with someone who was there, that was inside of the building, that died for no reason?
I also find it hard to beleive that a passport would survive an inferno and a black box would not. Also take note that the government barely even looked into the collapse of the towers. They shipped off the metal and debree as fast as they could. If you were going to start a war with someone becaause they blew up ur tower, you'd want to make absolutely sure that it was them.
I can't beleive teh load of rubbish the media have spat at us and expect us to gobble it all up. Theres too many holes in what they say is "the truth"
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:10
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| Shraka wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 12:04 |
| Caledwvech wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 10:12 |
We need one of those enhancing pieces of software that they always have in the movies to make a picture crystal clear even when you blow it up to 100 times it's original size.
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They don't have those. You can't do that!
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I know that! I was joking.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:18
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Where did the firemen report from? From the top floors? If memory serves me correctly, the firemen never actually got all the way up. (I could be wrong here though).
In regards to the seismic activity. I talked to someone who was there and they said that the planes flying overhead were like nothing they have ever heard. You blocked your ears and it was still the loudest rumble they have ever heard. They said is sounded like a massive train coming towards them. This could account for the seismic activity. Also, the planes hitting would cause a huge "rumble".
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:23
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| Intensevil wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 10:08 |
There are numerous account wittnesses of people saying they heard many explosions as the building came down, the media said that these were exploding gas mains. We're talking about a 100+ story building, it would have definatly had a fail safe system for the gas so that its turned off.
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Yes, is would have been turned off, but turning it off is one thing, but getting all the gas out of the kilometres of piping inside the building is another
| Intensevil wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 10:08 |
Are you going to argue with someone who was there, that was inside of the building, that died for no reason?
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A) How did someone who died make a report the to media
B) Its a bit hard to argue with someone who is dead
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:30
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| Caledwvech wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 13:10 |
| Shraka wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 12:04 |
| Caledwvech wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 10:12 |
We need one of those enhancing pieces of software that they always have in the movies to make a picture crystal clear even when you blow it up to 100 times it's original size.
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They don't have those. You can't do that!
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I know that! I was joking.
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hmmm, dont be too quick to piss this idea away.
there are algorithms based on mandelbrot fractal theory that can do exactly this (perhaps not to CSI level!) but they can do it.
as for this continuing conspiracy charde! god, what a joke!
ed
PS - i love how ANYONE could hope to extract a sex from that blob of pixels...
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:35
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I enhanced it with the amazing power of our best software at work (MSPaint) and was surprised to find this
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:41
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I assumed it was a female due to the long hair.
Also you have to read teh seismic graph properly.
Its just one long stream of paper but they ordered it so its easy to see. The start is the top left and the end is the bottom right.
You can see the seismic activity just before the buildings fell, its huge. What made that?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:43
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 13:30 |
| Caledwvech wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 13:10 |
| Shraka wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 12:04 |
| Caledwvech wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 10:12 |
We need one of those enhancing pieces of software that they always have in the movies to make a picture crystal clear even when you blow it up to 100 times it's original size.
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They don't have those. You can't do that!
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I know that! I was joking.
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hmmm, dont be too quick to piss this idea away.
there are algorithms based on mandelbrot fractal theory that can do exactly this (perhaps not to CSI level!) but they can do it.
as for this continuing conspiracy charde! god, what a joke!
ed
PS - i love how ANYONE could hope to extract a sex from that blob of pixels...
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I know the technology in satellites and camera's that are in the bellies of spy planes (U-71, SR-71) are able to do that, but that is because the picture is so detailed to begin with.
So what you are saying is that there is technology that can take a dodgy picture and enhance it to that level? Wow.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:46
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Sort of
With the algorithm, the computer can ESTIMATE was it actually is, with a surprising level of accuracy, but you wont be able to see what colour her eyes are tho!!!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:46
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there we go, look at teh activity just befor the colapse of the buildings, its huge, it even goes over some of the other graphs
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:49
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Well, from what I can tell, that would not be explosions. Wouldnt have a clue what they would be, but explosions would be much more similar to the other activity reports in that they are not just one single huge line.....
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:51
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I would have thought that those spike WERE the collapse of the buildings
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 02:57
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| Intensevil wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 13:46 |
there we go, look at teh activity just befor the colapse of the buildings, its huge, it even goes over some of the other graphs
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what are you talking about??
WHAT spikes before the collapse?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 03:02
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| CrUZsida wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 13:51 |
I would have thought that those spike WERE the collapse of the buildings
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Oh yeah. Now that I look at it, it has two little phrases....
First collapse and Second collapse. Those are the buildings collapsing dude.......
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 03:45
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oh, and fwiw: photoshop idetifies the 'face' as being the same colour as the flames apparent elsewhere in the pic (with some pretty strict restrictions on colour variancy)
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 03:46
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| Quote: |
I would have thought that those spike WERE the collapse of the buildings
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If it was the collapse of the building, the reading would start off low, and build up slowly ending with a big thug, instead it's a huge spike (some kind of explosion or chemical reaction that's connected to the ground)
The plane may have been noisy, but it won't record much activity unless it's connected to the ground and shaking the ground.
But I'm sure people recall man and women jumping off the tower before it collapsed, remember if there was a 800c inferno, those man and women jumping out would be on fire as 800c is sure enough to ignite any clothing? It would've been enough to vaporise those people too, as 80C is probably enough to kill them almost instantly, and no one took those bodies for analyse for the level of burnt damage
this is how a burnt human looks like, and we didn't see any from Sept 11
back to the graph, you can actually see the comparision of the noise it may when the plane hit the tower (273 nm/s) and the noise before the tower collapsed (4,545 nm/s) this intensity lasted more than 20 seconds
but we better concentrate back on the fire, because if the fire wasn't 800c, then according to the media report, there's no way it could've brought down the tower. Unless there's other reasons that the government is hiding from us
[Updated on: Thu, 08 January 2004 03:55]
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 06:55
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| draven wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 12:38 |
considering how many of the conspiracy theorists points have been proven completely wrong by various people, I'm amazed this is still going.
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[quote] its because it doesn't have to be logical for them[quote]
Exactly. I wonder who this applies to.
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this is how a burnt human looks like, and we didn't see any from Sept 11
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And in true half-wit style: "if we didn't see them, well It just couldn't exist"
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 06:59
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I was gonna say, ok, lets drop that body a few hundred feet, and then drop thousands of tonnes of concrete and steal on it, and see its still recognisable then
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 07:00
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| gt20v wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 14:46 |
If it was the collapse of the building, the reading would start off low, and build up slowly ending with a big thug
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youre a seismologist (sp?) today are you? or just reguritating verbatim someone elses argument?
once again, when you can explain to me the structural loadings on the buildings, and in this instance also provide me with bedrock harmonic analysis in combination with the particulars of the demolition...then please, get back to me
as for people jumping because they were on fire?? youre an idiot!
ever considered people jumped because they didnt want to be on fire....
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 07:02
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| Quote: |
as for people jumping because they were on fire?? youre an idiot!
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How many is that now? has someone bothered to count it for gt20v?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 07:09
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It may interest some that only 2 intact phones were pulled from the WTC rubble. Hopefully, no one here will suggest that in 2 100+ storey buildings there were only 2 phones.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 07:19
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| gianttomato wrote on Thu, 08 January 2004 15:09 |
It may interest some that only 2 intact phones were pulled from the WTC rubble. Hopefully, no one here will suggest that in 2 100+ storey buildings there were only 2 phones.
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Sounds reasonable to me. Didnt you know that the USA have been using Telepathy for years? Shows how backwards Australia is
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 16:01
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| Quote: |
youre a seismologist (sp?) today are you? or just reguritating verbatim someone elses argument?
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Then use your common sense and try to explain what could cause such a shake BEFORE the building started collapsing.
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It may interest some that only 2 intact phones were pulled from the WTC rubble. Hopefully, no one here will suggest that in 2 100+ storey buildings there were only 2 phones.
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What does that got to do with the collapse of the building? If nothing can stop the FBI finding the terrorist (AND ONLY THE TERRORIST'S PASSPORT) 3 blocks away, I'm sure you can find more interesting things under the WTC rubbles for propaganda purposes! Especially burnt bodies (if there was any in the first place, they've found body parts, but no mention of burnt body parts)
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as for people jumping because they were on fire?? youre an idiot!
ever considered people jumped because they didnt want to be on fire....
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Would they have a choice "NOT" to be on fire if all their floor was 800c hot??? Think about it idiot!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 20:22
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| Quote: |
Would they have a choice "NOT" to be on fire if all their floor was 800c hot??? Think about it idiot!
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Oh my ! Is that flaming. Did he just call someone an idiot?
ps. Can anyone be bothered quoting my posts? Incase gt20v wants to hear them secretly, without feeling like he has to respond.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Thu, 08 January 2004 22:03
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Just a few points I thought of last night.........
In regards to your "theory" that explosions took place after the planes hit and that brought down the buildings, not just the planes themselves. There are two points:
1. How the heck did they get the explosives in there. Those buildings would have been used 24 hours a day. So did they shut the whole place down and send everyone out? Where were the explosives hidden?
2. They would have had to place the explosives at the EXACT place the planes hit. Note how the towers top falls off. The bottom is still perfectly intact when it starts to fall. So how did they know where the planes were going to hit? Or did they organise it earlier? Well, you were arguing before that someone couldnt hit a building like taht going at that speed, well how do they hit a SPECIFIC floor going at that speed then???
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Brisbane / Gold Coast
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Fri, 09 January 2004 00:59
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My theory as to how the Towers were quaking before they actually were seen to fall is that the internal floors were starting to collapse internally, within the outside skin of the building, then at a certain point the next weakest part of the structure - the skin & core - then failed, which showed the spectacular collapse we all saw on TV.
But I also have to say that given the usual lack of accuracy by the site that posted the seismic information, I think they are more likely to be getting it wrong by either not allowing for the two clocks being slighly different times (a minute or so out, like most people's watches are) or are just deliberately ignoring other information that would make the answer more clear.
Sites like that do that sort of thing all the time, and the gullable just soak it up.
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August 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Fri, 09 January 2004 01:36
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THis thread is uber ghey.
Av gas, as im sure Bill will tell you burns at really quite a HIGH temperature and infact upon impact the sheer volume of Av gas present in the planes (seeing as though they had just taken off) would be more than enough to burn at such extreme temperatures to fatigue the metals (which are holding up many tonnes of concrete and steel above the impact level.
Buildings were never designed to deal with the impact of a plane and the subsequent weakening of the internal core with the fire.
Buildings from now on will be designed not with 'terrorist attacks' as such in mind, but with a little more thought in the design stage.
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Fri, 09 January 2004 06:25
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| gt20v wrote on Fri, 09 January 2004 03:01 |
Would they have a choice "NOT" to be on fire if all their floor was 800c hot
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this is just sheer stupidity in fluid motion. take a good look kids, you dont see this that often.
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Fri, 09 January 2004 10:06
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| BlackSupra wrote on Fri, 09 January 2004 12:36 |
Av gas, as im sure Bill will tell you burns at really quite a HIGH temperature and infact upon impact the sheer volume of Av gas present in the planes (seeing as though they had just taken off) would be more than enough to burn at such extreme temperatures to fatigue the metals (which are holding up many tonnes of concrete and steel above the impact level.
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True, but jets use AVTUR, not AVGAS. 
It's basically highly refine kerosene, and it's hard to light but when it does it burns very hot indeed.
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July 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Fri, 09 January 2004 15:26
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Caledwvech: Why does there need to be explosives at the EXACT place that the plane hit??? And with the tower's top falling off, there's ever only 1 picture that I've seen that has the top part of the tower tilted, how hard is it to fake a picture for propaganda purposes? (REMEMBER, we want the collapse to be SPECTACULAR!!! HOLLYWOOD STYLE!!!)
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My theory as to how the Towers were quaking before they actually were seen to fall is that the internal floors were starting to collapse internally
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That quaking that you are assuming is at least 16 times stronger than the force of the plane hitting the tower in the first place (which is minor) (as recorded on the graph), I'm telling you that the explosion that caused the collapse is 17 times stronger, or do you rather believe that the plane crashing into the tower had caused a chain reaction and made whatever that was in the tower, to create a reaction which is 17 times stronger than the force of the plane which is hundred of tonnes travelling at 220 m/s??
BlackSupra: Avgas can burn at really high temperature only if the combustion is controlled with plenty of oxygen (think about the air fuel ratio) but the problem at this moment is, #1, most of the fuel is splattered outside in tower2, and #2, as eye witnesses, and people that escaped from the tower, and photographic images shows, there's no 800c inferno in the tower anyway!!!
ed_ma61: Not sure why you still can't digest it, the WTC was open plan, if there was an explosion worth 800c, those hot expanding gas would have vaporised anything in that room VERY QUICKLY
Makes you wonder if there was actually any jet fuel in there after all!!
Caledwvech: There's 2 possible theory behind the explosives, but no point of bring them out until people start believing 1) There's no 800c inside the building, and 2) The plane didn't cause the tower to collapse.
[Updated on: Fri, 09 January 2004 15:28]
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I supported Toymods
Location:
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Fri, 09 January 2004 15:30
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which means those theories will never come out, 'cause the rest of us seem to be thinking logically.
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Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
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May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Sat, 10 January 2004 02:15
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yes, thats right bill... nothing was on fire, and you definietly couldnt see any smoke, not even from the international space station
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July 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Sat, 10 January 2004 06:13
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| Bill Sherwood wrote on Sat, 10 January 2004 10:38 |
gt20v - Superficial thought about what you've written shows it to be completely wrong.
I don't know where you got the numbers 16 and 17 from, the Rictor scale used in earthquake detection is logarithmic or expotential, not linear.
Take a moment to work out roughly how much energy a plane of about 120 tonnes (just a rough guess) like a 767 weighs, hitting the Tower at ~450kts makes.
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Bill: Yes, the rictor scale is logarithmic, but no one said the graph that you see is rictor scale, it's a linear graph, with the average values next to it (273 & 4545nm/s respectively), btw the KE is 0.5 * m * v^2 = 0.5 * 120,000 * 222^2 = 2,957,040,000, this KE has all been absorbed by the tower, came to complete stop, maybe shaking the tower a little, but only recorded an average of 273nm/s on the graph, then comes the later shake that's been recorded on the graph as 4,545nm, either this shake is really SO powerful from the 80th floor! (As the shake dies down as the tower continues to fall) OR, this shake actually came from the ground itself! Leaves you more to think about.
and the rictor scale only goes up to 10 and nothing's been recorded on 10 yet.
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Then work out just how much explosive you would need to make at least 16 (in reality more like 50+ times) that amount of energy.
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yeah, if we needed 50 times more power that would be a lot of explosives, but it's irrelevant, because again, the graph wasn't a rictor scale
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As for there being no big fire in the Towers, there had to be some process that made all that smoke.
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Yes, there's plenty of smoke, in tower 1, plenty of white smoke, which comes from papers, desk, and a lot of other junk, but strangely, there's not much smoke coming out of tower 2, wonder why?
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It's safe to say that there was fuel in the planes as they were airborne. 767's & 757's are not gliders, they require fuel to get into the air and reach 450kts - 500kts.
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Yeah, they do, plenty of fuel, probably about 90,000 litres, where did they all go? You don't see much in tower 2 do you?
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
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April 2003
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Sat, 10 January 2004 06:15
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fellas........
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Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
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May 2002
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Re: September 11 Conspiracies... :P
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Sat, 10 January 2004 06:34
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*sigh*
Look up the phrase, "Occam's razor".
Planes flew into the Towers, and they fell down.
That's pretty much it.
It's not a conspiracy by the US government that results in thousands of US citizens being killed.
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