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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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w58 strength
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Tue, 29 April 2003 12:14
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How much flat changing will a w58 handle behind a 302? Only on the odd occasion...like a run at willowbank raceway...would it hold together?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Tue, 29 April 2003 13:06
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Bugman, classic dude!
OK, jokes aside, I have a friend with a 302Windosr and W58 in a Ford Capri, which is used for alot of organised motorsport. He states a figure of 400hp from the new motor, which I don't doubt is far off given it's build and componetry. He has not had any problems with his driveline aside from blowing the standard V6 diffs (can anyone say "the weakest link"). This will soon be rectified with a Borg Warner 28 spline diff he got from me.
If you really want to beat up on it, go the Toploader route and 9", as I have seen you propose in other threads. Advantageous to this route is the fact you will not need a custom bellhousing, and you can still source new parts for both units. I have three spare toploaders, and two 9"s at the moment, however freight to Brisbane would be the killer!
If you want to stay IRS, go for a Commodore Borg Warner unit, but be careful - there are several different types, and the only way to tell externally is to read the ratio numbers on their ID tag - they differ marginally between series.
Now, you sure I can't interest you in a MoFo sized bottle of NOS sitting in the back seat, or under the front one???!!!    
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Toymods Board Member
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Wed, 30 April 2003 02:08
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guys
after an decrease in the standards of behaviour in these forums we are toughening our stance on personal attacks and ridicule
please refrain from posting such comments
if you do not think a question is worth responding to then do not post a reply - under no circumstances will ridicule or other imflammatory comments be tolerated
if you have problems with a person or thread then please report it to a moderator or email board@toymods.org.au
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Wed, 30 April 2003 10:29
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Looks like Robbo can't get a clean answer from ANYONE can he!
Anyways, my suggestion would be to go with the W58, for a mild to moderate 302 it should probably be fine. If that breaks, and you feel suitably cashed up, slap a Tremec behind it - just don't go using a BW T5...
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Wed, 30 April 2003 11:07
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thanks mrshin and clint.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Thu, 01 May 2003 01:03
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What I don't get is why the hell you'd want to be flat shifting it. Its not going to be the be all and end all in drag times, its going to make SFA.
Your car as you claim is a street car and not a drag car, why risk breaking something by being stupid when its not going to reflect much on your timeslips just more on your wallet.
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Thu, 01 May 2003 02:25
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more a case of "how much flat shifting the 302 can take" before it bends a pushrod!!!
If you've got you heart set on flat shifting get a flat shift kit!!
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Thu, 01 May 2003 02:33
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Just out of interest, how many people here have ever even DRIVEN anything with a 302 in it??
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Location:
Welly, NZ
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Thu, 01 May 2003 02:54
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Can't say I've ever driven anything with one in it, but I have seen a few in museums and scrap yards.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Thu, 01 May 2003 02:56
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*takes out notebook, starts taking tally of those who speak from trying something, and 'others'* 
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Thu, 01 May 2003 03:11
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Yep, 253s (owned 2), 302s, 308s, 351s...Driven all of 'em at various times.
When I was 17-18 (and it was a while ago! ) these kind of engines were "all the rage". Jap cars were considered "buzz-boxes" which, to be fair, they were back then. (At least the ones we got here in Australia, anyway!)
How times change!!! As a young bloke I was "Holden this and Holden that..."  Now look at me; 2 modified Toyotas in the garage and, apart from some "conversion-related" teething issues  I wouldn't consider going back to an Australian car...They just seem inferior, now that I'm familiar with what is available. 
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Thu, 01 May 2003 03:21
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I've driven and old Falcon 500 station wagon and a vs SS Commowhore. The holden was much better given its age in all.
They did't like to rev much, nor did they want rev!!
Anything over 4000rpm felt like I was going to break something.
Mind you I'm biased after owning a few revvy 4's and now a 1JZ.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Fri, 02 May 2003 07:46
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yep - helped a mate work a 302 windsor, and dropped it in a beautiful 71 capri. not exactly a 'to the shops' car. it either overheated or stalled at the lights, take your pick which came first. but awesome to feel the thing come on song
cheers
ed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Fri, 02 May 2003 11:30
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Yep, I'll quite happily admit to driving many a 302 V8, some as daily drivers, some as tow vehicles, some in autokhana/motorkhana events. No they don't rev to 7500rpm, but nor do they have to to produce useable power and more importantly torque. My ute quite happily cruises on 100Km/h at around 2500rpm, while carrying and towing around 2.5-3 tonnes, and will do it all day, every day without getting hot, or stalling at lights. I'd suggest these factors are more a problem of build, tune and accessories than motor (ie, head gaskets differ by one small hole end to end and are often put on backwards by those who are not aware of the difference)?!
An easy way to determine if the radiator will support such a motor, after the usual cleaning and cooling tricks is to change the coolants used, they all have different thermal carrying characteristics. Water in itself, or with recommended inhibitor is a pretty poor conductor thermal wise, try a straight inhibitor/anti freeze/boil, or use a name brand such as "Redline Water Wetter". The latter I have found to be excellent, when used in rally and race car motors. I've had no need to use this in any of my street V8's, or turboed 4Cylinders either, so food for thought.
Will also admit that an old 1970'2 style Falcon 500 won't perform as a VS SS Commodore either, they're two completely different eras with the Falcon really showing it's age, but again that relates to design features of the time.
So, what would I prefer to drive? The answer is: The best car for the purpose! Not willing to dismiss one from the other, rather appreciate something different, something well maintained, and something I've not thought of doing nor have the incling too. Who really cares what car makers badge adorns the bonnet or the block, look past it, you may even learn something every now and again!?!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Sat, 03 May 2003 04:14
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Nope, you're just shit stirring
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Sat, 03 May 2003 06:54
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Why would anyone listen to a 19 year old when it comes to building a V8? 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Sat, 03 May 2003 08:10
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who says im 19?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Sat, 03 May 2003 08:18
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obviously not your maturity level.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Sat, 03 May 2003 08:21
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you're one to talk...but hey didnt danny say not to get personal?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Sat, 03 May 2003 08:24
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sigh
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Location:
gold coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Sat, 03 May 2003 10:28
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I pulled a W58 down a couple of weeks ago and i really think you will be asking a lot from it if you run it behind a V8 and drive it hard. I think second gear will be the weak link.
I know Dellow make belhousings to suit but keep in mind that they also make belhousings to suit celica 5 speeds.
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Toymods Board Member
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: w58 strength
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Tue, 06 May 2003 05:06
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robbo you just ruined your own thread and got it locked all on your own.
well done.
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in future read a manual before building an engine...a bit of advice for when you're doing your 7mge! A lot more can go wrong in those hi-tech pieces of machinery! Here ill even give you a name and author of a small block ford rebuilder's guide... "HOW TO REBUILD SMALL-BLOCK FORD ENGINES, by TOM MONROE"
