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I supported Toymods
Banned User
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Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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After market ECU thoughts
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Sat, 26 April 2003 11:16
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It looks like I may have to go all out and get myself an after market computer for my 3S-GTE! I have been told by a lot of people that the Haltec E6K is the way to go!
Anyone have any thoughts on this? Is there something that is better at the about the same price and is also as easy to tune/get tuned! I mean I dont want to spend $1500 on something and then find out that no one local can tune it!
Thanks
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sat, 26 April 2003 12:23
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a laptop programable ecu is really the way to go. Many of the manufacturers make a lt version.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
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Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sat, 26 April 2003 13:37
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Thats why I have been looking toward the E6K, but just wanted to know if there is anything else that competes with the Haltec?
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I supported Toymods
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I renounced punctuation
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May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sat, 26 April 2003 13:46
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I know about the "expensive" Motec, but dont know to much about the Autronic! Whats so good about these?
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sun, 27 April 2003 00:20
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The Autronic doesnt like to be used without its own pre defined sensors. the motec u can use any sensor you want....and its the only ecu that engineers recognise (in NSW anyway) to pass emissions laws....
The Autronic self tune is a big wank too
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I supported Toymods
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I renounced punctuation
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May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sun, 27 April 2003 02:27
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The Motec is incredibly user friendly. Even an idiot like me was able to wire it up and get it going (all in a weekend too).
Autronic has issues with sensors (as Traction mentioned) and there seems to be a distinct lack of support around for them.
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sun, 27 April 2003 02:43
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theres nothin wrong with the autronic
i recon its the easiest out of the lot for tuning purposes to use
i know there isnt much support for them but if u buy it from someone that knows how to tune them and take it back there to get it tuned then thats all the help u should need
it is easier to use than motec
motec has too many adjustments for a novice user
autronic might need its own sensors but its still cheaper than motec
autronic auto tune is not a wank it halves the time to tune up a car so u save on the money u pay for someone to tune it
yr best bet is to ring around yr area and see who is a good tuner and what ecu they normally tune and know the ins and outs of them
a good ecu is only as good as its tuner
so find someone locally first and go from there
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sun, 27 April 2003 03:00
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I'd say it's a competition between Haltech and Autronic. The Haltech will work out somewhat cheaper, and (in my opinion!) has the best tuning software - those bar graphs are fantastic. The Autronic has the auto tune and a very good reputation for extracting good drivability/fuel economy.
My suggestion would be to download the software for a few different brands, play around, and see what you like! That way you can learn all about the functions available and how they work. 
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sun, 27 April 2003 04:25
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If you want complete freedom and the ability to tune everything yourself using a laptop... try
http://www.bgsoflex.com/megasquirt.html
(as long as you don't mind building it yourself)
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sun, 27 April 2003 05:14
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At the moment megasquirt is only a fuel management system it doest not handle ignition!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sun, 27 April 2003 10:57
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Dont mistake Autronics lack of sensor flexibility for a weakness. Its is this way for a reason, to give it superior hardening against interference.
Autronic is definately a top shelf system which is matched only by Motec. Yes the 'mode flag' software was hard to understand but the new stuff (post 2000, i think) seems just as user friendly as any other.
Plus, Ray Hall the Autronic Guru has a wonderfully detailed 100pg manual which covers all Autronics functions wiring and tuning. It comes free when the System is bought from him, or $50 seperately
Autronic is easily worth the dosh, and even has its own dedicated boost control option.
Lest we not forget the wonderful 'Autotune'
As soon a i develop some cash, ill be getting one for sure...
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sun, 27 April 2003 11:43
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So whats the difference between the two Autronic ECUs available? Apart from the $700
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sun, 27 April 2003 12:51
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Autronic SM2 is the upper level ECU. It has more datalogging and outputs/inputs for things like wheel speed sensors etc.
The sort of things that allow boost control to be mapped against road speed and gear selection.
Plus much more...
Its very advanced but only really needed for high end race cars/teams. For example its used on quite a few of the top eschelon V8 YobboCars, errr SuperCars.
Autronic SMC is the road version. It will run any engine you throw at it very finely with user definable rpm increments which can give very fine resolution. It also comprehensively handles cold starts, big injectors, rpm limits, enrichment ignition attack ramps etc.
There is much more and i cant really do it justice.
Take a look at http://www.autronic.com/ theres a fair bit of info on both products there.
Ive spent a fair whack of time researching it (even toying with the software) so if you have some specific questions ask and ill try and answer them (if i can  ).
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sun, 27 April 2003 12:58
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yr right there rex
ive been using autronic on and off for over 6 yrs and would use it over any other
if u use it for a 3sgte then im pretty sure u can use original
throttle sensor since they r resitor type
so all u need is an air temp sensor which comes in the kit
for another say 150 so u can get an electronic boost controller
soleniod
and all u need then is yr dizzy modified or if u wait for the new model (dont know when ) it will handle most factory dizzys and crank sensors similar to how the motec does it
the new software is so easy to use
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sun, 27 April 2003 13:02
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I have looked at the pages about all the mentioned ECU and all the give me is headaches 
If I do have to go all out and get an ECU, I'll just have to ring around and see what people deal with around here and also what they recommend!
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Location:
Parramatta
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Mon, 28 April 2003 02:49
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the four best ecu is my opioin is Motec, EMS, Altronic, Haltec
i run a 3sgte with the ems and love it and most defiantly dont regret it has heaps of options and has heaps of features ie NOS, water squiters, turbo timer, thurmo fan control, etc list goes on can have a shit light hooked up on it etc... also dont need all thoes gauges like air fuel ratio, boost, fuel, amps, etc its great i love it.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Mon, 28 April 2003 03:15
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Yeah, why is this the first time the EMS has been mentioned? The stinger version looks great with the feature list, and then they've got the 8860 coming out soon, which is even more impressive, and only something like $1600 brand new.
Is there something bad about them that i should know?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Mon, 28 April 2003 22:16
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ive used ems dualsport version.and its got all the features u would need,and its configurable to most sensors on different engines,and u can upgrade it as future versions come out,mine is alptop programmable also has data loggong,im just in the process of upgrading it to lambda.also comes with hanpeice, i didnt see any need to spend extra for motec or haltech,as this is just as good,driveability and fuel economy was goood also.
http://www.enginemanagement.com.au
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Wed, 21 May 2003 02:39
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FWIW the new version of the Wolf 3D has laptop programmable features for $1395. I've been considering it for my 4AGE. It seems to be greatly upgraded over the previous version.
See www.wolfems.com.au
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Wed, 21 May 2003 06:59
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Everyone has their own opinions... but why waste time with anything but Motec? It is very user friendly, at least the Dos version is anyway - I havent played with the windows version yet.
I disagree with Sideshow in that it has too many options for a novice user. You can get "standard" programs to load in to suit your engine and play with it from there.
Make a change. If it doesnt do what you expect just change it back. How else is a novice supposed to learn?
From a novice point of view its brilliant. The diagnostics will tell you if an injector is going to crap itself by the delay in opening the innjector. It will tell you if a wire is hanging loose, and on what injector. It will monitor fuel pressure, and if you are loosing fuel pressure it will automatically compesate by opening the injectors for longer.
It will do 3D graphs of course, and you can change the fuel/ign maps from the graphs.
Its the most flexible and most intelligent system available. Why else would TOCA, V8 Supercars, NASCAR, FF all use them as standard equipment?
Go to www.motec.com and download the demo. you can have a look through the operating system using a virtual ECU. Have a play then tell me its too hard to use.... It has more load sites than any other and is the only 32 ECU on the market so its heaps quicker at processing information.
Price is a bit higher - 2200 for M4 Clubman complete, but you never need to hardwire upgrades. contact motec, they give you the code for your ECU. Plug in the code and its done. A credit card and 2 minutes on the phone and you have a whole list of options to play with.
With the base model you can switch from TPS to MAP, Crank angle to hall effect, batched to sequencial firing and any other options from software. This also means you can change the ECU from (for example) single to quad throttle in a couple of minutes.
Its just too easy to setup, too easy to use and therefore is the easiest to make power out of.
as you may have guessed - Im a big fan!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Wed, 21 May 2003 12:53
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On the topic of ecu's..
how easy would it be (scale of 1[easy]-10[impossible]) for a complete newbie to electrical stuff/wiring/etc to piggy-back an ems stinger to an ecu..or install the ems as a standalone (or motec/haltech/etc for that matter) just using the standard instructions (probably) supplied w/ it?
Who has done this themselves as a newbie before?
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Wed, 21 May 2003 13:12
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I wouldn't try it if you haven't had any experience! If you get a wire mixed up and put it on 12volts you might as well say good bye to the ECU
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Location:
Parramatta
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Wed, 21 May 2003 23:03
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its not that hard u only need to know what the basics of what what is in the car like starter motor and some commion sence with a little bit of knowlage of the wiring in your car all u need is a wiring diagram of u are and then u are provided with one for the ecu..... its easy i have done ems a few times now very easy.... the only hard part about it would be the realy side of things but again its not that hard if u sit down and read.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Thu, 22 May 2003 02:19
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I dont know about piggybacking ECUs other than what Ive read in FF&R etc - supposedly pretty easy.
Ive setup a Motec in a car after swapping from a carb and it was pretty straight forward took a few days as I was reeeealy pedantic about every connection & wire. If youve got the instructions, loom etc and you know that everything is compatible (sensors etc) then its just a matter of taking your time and making sure you're getting it right.
I know a guy who swapped from an 4AGE to EJ20 turbo, Stock ECU to motec in one day. 10 hours from undoing the first bolt to firing it up, and he's not exactly a genius when it comes to his wiring.
He put in some serious work before hand getting prepared to make sure it was going to work though! Already had adaptor plate, engine mounts, exhaust etc ready to go and spent a couple of weeks making sure that he already knew where all the wiring was going to.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Thu, 22 May 2003 03:36
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Hello,
I used to run a Halteck E6-S I think it was, the model before K.
I was never very happy with it and sold it. Now have an Autronic SMC V1.91 and would NOT look back!
They don't come with much in the way of support, but can find plenty on the internet. All you really need is a wiring diagram and a brief description of the functions which can be found in .pdf format.
I wired mine up (3t-gte with 550cc injectors), with a MSD DIS-4, direct fire ignition (no dizzy etc) in 1 day. Started 8am that morning, and the car was driveable 10am the next day.
Bit hard to find tuners, Matt (Hitman) here in Sydney runs a mobile service and he seems good with the Autronics, tuned mine a few times now and i've always been happy with the result.
Oh, and I wont post it on here because it'll just land me in trouble, but if you want to know what I think about Ray Hall PM me.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Thu, 22 May 2003 04:16
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Hey
I have an E6R Haltech on my RX7. Its a really old unit, has 1990 on the unit!!! But i installed it from scratch, although it was running a 13BT before i got it, but i'm running it on a 12A standard engine with a 13B sixport EFI manifold.
I tuned it myself, with no base maps, or any direct hand experience tuning with this ECU before, and I managed to get the tune down to point where I get 11L/100 km's, tunned all the way to 7000 rpm!!! I tunned it without an air/fuel ratio meter and miss matched injectors, as im also running staged injection. I have smaller primary injectors, and large secondaries which makes it a little harder to tune than normal. I need to go to the dyno tuners to check my mixtures, and to tune things like the accelerator pump so i don't get surging which is most annoying, and cold start enrichment.
If you want a peak or any advice on setting a Haltech or any ECU up on your engine, i'll be happy to help, its not that hard, if you get some help from someone who has done this stuff before, you shouldn't go too wrong, and if your unsure about something, then just ask!!!
I've also has a little experience with Microtechs, as I had an MT8 with a dash.
Cheers Nilezy
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Thu, 22 May 2003 15:12
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I have the EMS Stinger and think it is a great unit. Heaps of functions and laptop programmable with data logging.
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Location:
Darwin
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Fri, 23 May 2003 05:45
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Does anyone have any experience with Microtech?
They're supposed to be pretty reasonably priced aren't they?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Fri, 23 May 2003 05:53
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I've got one sitting in my car at the moment (as does SUPRAGTE)
if you have a look around for a previous thread, I talk all about the effect it's had etc etc.
basically, it's a smoother ride, it hits boost faster, feels much happier at full throttle & boost, but it doesn't really go that much faster (of course, it's almost stock, so you're never going to get much of a bonus over a good computer like the standard 1jz one)
that said, it hasn't been tuned for economy yet, so it's still running really rich. I'll be able to give a better opinion one we lean it out a lot.
Paul and I installed it in around a day. If you're putting it in a 1jz, I've got the *correct* wiring setup too (both versions microtech gave me were wrong). but that was only an issue with the crank and cam sensors.
$1000 got me a 2nd hand unit and everything needed
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Fri, 23 May 2003 06:59
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| fingers wrote on Fri, 23 May 2003 15:45 |
Does anyone have any experience with Microtech?
They're supposed to be pretty reasonably priced aren't they?
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Yes, though only the older types. I believe the later ones are better and they'd have to be.
The two I used were just junk. They were crude electric carburetors; the best thing I ever did was to swap over to Motec.\
They both broke down, and one had the wiring problem menioned above. In both cases, Microtech were not interested in helping.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Fri, 23 May 2003 07:15
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as they told me, "we make and sell the computers, you'll have to go to a mechanic to get any problems fixed"
wonderful :\
I might add, the ltx12 (which I have) is quite good, as far as I can tell.
Of course, it's not quite up there with motec, but it also costs several grand less. I'd rate them as a good cheap alternative.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Fri, 23 May 2003 08:16
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Ok let me see if I understand this. There are 2 versions of the Motec M4? The Clubman and the Pro? Or is there 3 versions? If I buy the basic version I can just upgrade to the Pro by buying some code?
Now is the M4 good enough for a HIPO street car?
What versions of the Motec are you other guys using?
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Fri, 23 May 2003 12:28
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There's the M4 Clubman and the M4 Pro.
The difference is that the Pro has a lot of nice extra's, such as traction control, lambda sensing & feedback stuff, etc.
The Clubman can be upgraded very easily by Motec to Pro specs.
Check out www.motec.com.au for all the info.
(No, they don't sell exhausts ...)
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Fri, 23 May 2003 12:32
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So the M4 is good enough for a street car?
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Location:
Brisbane / Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Fri, 23 May 2003 14:24
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| Cool1 wrote on Fri, 23 May 2003 22:32 |
So the M4 is good enough for a street car?
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Easily good enough - Properly tuned they can also make the engine pass emissions testing.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sat, 24 May 2003 11:21
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Good stuff. Next question, what are they worth 
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: After market ECU thoughts
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Sat, 24 May 2003 13:13
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M4 starts at $2200, M800 $3800....
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