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I Supported Toymods
Location:
perth
Registered:
September 2002
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DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 14:50
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Hi ppl, did a search and didnt' find much in the way of this topic.
There are 2 stories i have heard
1. clutch in -> change gear -> clutch out -> kick clutch in/out again
2. clutch in -> shift to neutral -> clutch out -> clutch in -> shift to gear -> clutch out
Im pretty sure number 2 is rite, but don't know much in the way of why or reason. Ive heard its to avoid the synchro's or some shit.
Whats the deal??
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 14:59
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Sorry buddy, but i think you mean to be searching for double CRUNCHING  .
You double clutch when you drive a truck etc.. This is because the gearbox is not synchronous. I think this is where the confusion is getting set in.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 15:00
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number 2 is the way I have known it as, I was told it's to stop damage to your syncros when you put a lot of pressure on a quick change.
I read an article once about the history of double clutching, it original came about through a down shift not an upshift. It went:
clutch in -> shift to neutral -> clutch out -> tap accelerator (to increase engine revs) -> clutch in -> shift to gear -> clutch out
it was something to do with making the engine revs match where it would be after a downshift, gave the syncros a much easier time and made it a bit smoother.
But, thats what I read.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 15:03
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This is something I would like to know too.
I do find it usefull when hooning about to sync the gears before changing. ie:
I'm mid-high revving in 3rd, but need to be in 2nd to take this corner. So I:
> Clutch in
> Gear out
> Tap the throttle: Gets the gearbox spinning at about the right speed (takes some practice)
> Gear in: The gear will slide in nicely, rather than feeling like your forcing something that doesn't want to go.
> Clutch out, heavy on the throttle
This make the transition from 3rd to 2nd a lot smoother when in high revs and give you a nice power through the corner, leaving you to switch back up once you're out. I'm not sure if this is why the pro's do it. It's just what I do sometimes.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 15:13
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You CAN double clutch, but it increases shifting time. The only time i would bother about using it is if my car was low on oil and i had to so as to get it into gear.
The thing about synchronous gearboxes is that if you take your foot off the accelerator during driving, you can shift the gear into neutral, and only a half clutch pump is needed to dump it into gear.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 15:18
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[quote title=Shraka wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 01:33]
I'm mid-high revving in 3rd, but need to be in 2nd to take this corner. So I:
> Clutch in
> Gear out
> Tap the throttle: Gets the gearbox spinning at about the right speed (takes some practice)
> Gear in: The gear will slide in nicely, rather than feeling like your forcing something that doesn't want to go.
> Clutch out, heavy on the throttle
quote]
Dont you mean to get the flywheel spinning at the right speed!? But yeah, it works nicely. Too hard and your engine complains a bit, but it doesnt take long to master. Commonly used in autocross.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
perth
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 15:26
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Yeh sounds about rite. I do that on downshifting sometimes too.
So basically what your all saying is fast and furious is a load of bullshit. . . i could have told you that
But seriously the consensus is its no good for our street cars in terms of performance gains? (or at least with the horsepower most of us have)
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 15:26
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micooke: Yeah, Kinda. The idea is to get the half of the gearbox connected to the flywheel spinning at about the same speed as the half that is connected to the drive shaft multiplied by the gear you're changing into's ratio. If you do it PERFECTLY you don't even NEED to clutch in. But I don't trust my skill that much.
So in a sense, yes, we both used the correct terminology. At least, as far as my limited technical expertise goes.
bayka: Hah hah hah. Yeah. First time I saw "The Fast and the Furious" I didn't know much about cars. In fact, that movie is what got me into cars in the first place (hence why I have a Lancer, and not a good car as my first ride). Anyway, I wanted to find out what "double clutching" was, and as none of my friends could tell me, I searched high and low for information. But everything I came across didn't make sense. Why would Paul Walkers character need to double clutch in that situation? You know what I came up with? He didn't, and the director/scriptwriter/technical advisor fucked up.
Thing is, Vinny used to work on trucks for a living. So you would think HE would pick it up and ask the director why this was in the script. Oh well, it's just a movie I suppose.
As for double clutching in our cars, as I said, I find it usefull when flying about in high revs just to give me a smoother transition, and power around the corners.
[Updated on: Mon, 24 November 2003 15:32]
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 15:32
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| Shraka wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 01:56 |
micooke: Yeah, Kinda. The idea is to get the half of the gearbox connected to the flywheel spinning at about the same speed as the half that is connected to the drive shaft multiplied by the gear you're changing into's ratio. If you do it PERFECTLY you don't even NEED to clutch in. But I don't trust my skill that much.
So in a sense, yes, we both used the correct terminology. At least, as far as my limited technical expertise goes.
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Yeah, it generally happens easier going up gears. I frequently do it when starting off, going from 1st upto 2nd, and again going down from 3rd to 2nd. This is mainly because im so focussed on the road that i forget about the clutch  .
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 15:38
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Yeah, my clutch is rooted at the moment. Needs replacing but I can't find anyone with a pit to change it myself and I haven't got $500 to throw at my clutch just at the moment.
I recon half the time my clutch doesn't fully engage (or disengage, what's the correct terminology here?) when I put left boot on the floor. It's... kinda bad. So I guess we are doing the same thing micookie… sorta.
Anyone know anything about sequential gearboxes? Apparently they are a Manual gearbox that doesn’t require you to clutch in when changing up gears. Sounds nifty to me, especial for drags… but I’m sure there is a catch. Anyone know what’s the deal with them?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 15:42
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| Shraka wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 01:56 |
micooke: Yeah, Kinda. The idea is to get the half of the gearbox connected to the flywheel spinning at about the same speed as the half that is connected to the drive shaft multiplied by the gear you're changing into's ratio. If you do it PERFECTLY you don't even NEED to clutch in. But I don't trust my skill that much.
So in a sense, yes, we both used the correct terminology. At least, as far as my limited technical expertise goes.
bayka: Hah hah hah. Yeah. First time I saw "The Fast and the Furious" I didn't know much about cars. In fact, that movie is what got me into cars in the first place (hence why I have a Lancer, and not a good car as my first ride). Anyway, I wanted to find out what "double clutching" was, and as none of my friends could tell me, I searched high and low for information. But everything I came across didn't make sense. Why would Paul Walkers character need to double clutch in that situation? You know what I came up with? He didn't, and the director/scriptwriter/technical advisor fucked up.
Thing is, Vinny used to work on trucks for a living. So you would think HE would pick it up and ask the director why this was in the script. Oh well, it's just a movie I suppose.
As for double clutching in our cars, as I said, I find it usefull when flying about in high revs just to give me a smoother transition, and power around the corners.
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I think the quote is:
"YOU almost had me ! Granny shifting not double CRUNCHING like you should."
Double crunching is VERY different to double clutching. You just dont double clutch a synchro. Double clutching is named so because you crunch it out of gear, the crunch it into gear. None of this smooth DBL clutching stuff. FNTF sucks neways, the 2nd one has sweet cars, but both think that a race is a street drag. It has been quoted many times before, but fast cars are for straights, fast drivers are for corners. (Althought the 2nd one shows pauls skills a bit more..)
Neways, the truth is that it takes most people as long to "granny" shift, as it does to DBL crunch. So the only improvement really is knowing how to do it in ur car.
Regards, Cookie
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 15:46
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| Shraka wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 02:08 |
Yeah, my clutch is rooted at the moment. Needs replacing but I can't find anyone with a pit to change it myself and I haven't got $500 to throw at my clutch just at the moment.
I recon half the time my clutch doesn't fully engage (or disengage, what's the correct terminology here?) when I put left boot on the floor. It's... kinda bad. So I guess we are doing the same thing micookie… sorta.
Anyone know anything about sequential gearboxes? Apparently they are a Manual gearbox that doesn’t require you to clutch in when changing up gears. Sounds nifty to me, especial for drags… but I’m sure there is a catch. Anyone know what’s the deal with them?
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Disengage. BTW, unless you know your clutch is definitely going, check the slave. Ive found that most times the slave is the problem. This means it either needs to be rebuilt (30 min job at home), or a new one put in. Costs $50 max.. worth checking 4 sure!
Have you ever played daytona USA? thats a sequential gearbox. Two pedals, two ways to move the stick. Most new auto's come with "sports mode" which is the same diff, although on an auto base instead of a manual base.
[Updated on: Mon, 24 November 2003 15:49]
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 15:49
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wiso's procedure is the right one for "double clutch"
shraka's idea is usually done with "heel-toe", but the "gear-out", "blip up the revs" and "gear-in" is done all at the same time.
why double clutch? Because some gearbox doesn't have syncros, I think some OLD cars need to do it when changing gear up too, but instead it's, clutch in, neutral, clutch out, relax gas until engine revs is correct (keeping foot on accelerator), clutch in, gear in, clutch out.
I'm sure there's still some really strong racing gear boxes out there that doesn't have syncros, even some 80s-90s gearbox's syncro isn't too good, and if your double clutching is good, it's actually faster to do it, compared to trying to jam the gear from 3rd to 2nd, as you probably notice there's always a bit of resistance and noise, and wear, my car's syncro from 5th->forth and 4th->3rd is gone, don't know what the previous owner's done with it... 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 16:03
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micooke: Slave? I'm running a cable clutch, not hydraulic BTW *cringe*. It sux so bad.
What's this double crunching thing?
gt20v: Yes, I toe-heel sometimes, but if I'm coming at the corner fairly slowly, so don't need to be riding the breaks, I just forget the "heel" part.
You do have to engage the clutch between pulling out of gear and slotting back in, otherwise you can't rev the gearbox, and so there is no point (as I understand it). The way I do it heel-toe is:
> Clutch in - Out of gear - Clutch out
> Heel on break - toe on accelerator to rev up
> Clutch in - Gear in - Clutch out, heel off break, plan right foot carefully
Does anyone else have troubles when shifting up gears fast? I tend to do two things at once. One: Shift gears with my hands. Two: Clutch in and out in one smooth action. Problem is, sometimes (as I have a fairly long throw on my shifter) I don't make it into gear before my foot is all the way back out.
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Location:
Illawarra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 16:04
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I find that if you run your engine to the red line then double clutch #2 (stated in the first post) then as the rev is so high by the time you have done all that clutch neutral etc your already at the rev you need when the gear slots in. Boosts your take off in the gear.
Plus it also makes it easier to slot when running the red line
Other then that double clutching is a waste of time for street use. Mite as well learn to shift half clutch in,
Plus if your an ameteur, then its called "Double crunching" as you'll never get it proper if you don't concentrate, but trying doing it under racing conditions, and i bet you won't try that again
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 16:27
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I do it successfully and I would call myself an armature.
I never double clutch up, that's just stupid. However, as I am downshifting, I need to go from 3000 RPM up to 4000ish, so I have to double clutch otherwise the synchro has to get the gearbox spinning up 1000 RPM, and it does not like that at all.
Under normal driving conditions it's not a problem, but as I have said, I am running a shitty 1.5 ltr, so I spend most of my time thrashing it 'cuz otherwise it just goes so damn slowww!
I have never been under real racing conditions. Would like to try it one day though.
[Updated on: Mon, 24 November 2003 16:29]
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 17:03
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heel toe just mean you're using the heel and toe at the same time...  you can be using the clutch only once and still heel toe.
to do the double clutch fast, when you get to the braking point..
step on all three pedals at once
straight away flip the gear to neutral and take off the left foot
straight away step back on the clutch and flip the gear back into gear
get the foot off the clutch and the brakes and keep your foot on the gas and floor it 
this waste no time at all for, and less than 1 minutes to learn, no sweat, of coz your flooring of the pedal have to syncro with your steering, as simple as 80% braking 20% steering, 80% steering 20% accelerating, 80% accelerating 20% steering, confused? Just drive safe and don't kill any pedestrian, thank you.
this is double clutching and heel toe at the same time
why double clutch? because it makes the driving smoother, every jerk in the gearbox = every jerk on the wheels = 5m faster than the car behind, meaning you get home 0.5 seconds faster, stupid? yes, so just drive safe and get home safe, cheers...
and don't bother double clutching from 4000 -> 3000rpm, it's when you're 180km/h before the bend and you have to downshift from 6th to 2nd to get out of the bend at 70km/h and accelerate on
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 22:00
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I gotta do it in the AE86 everytime shifting down to 2nd. Syncos must be worn or something and it's the only way to get it into gear without crunching. Plus just makes downshifting from high rpm much smoother in my opinion.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 22:18
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So you're telling me the clucth has somthing to do with gear changing?
I'll have to try that.
Ever tried drving without using the clutch? that's fun, I've driven from home to work in peak hour once without using the clutch.(didn't stop the car) Just to piss off my boss.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 22:26
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Going up gears in "drags" I'd prefer to FLAT SHIFT. Accelerator FLAT to the floor -> clutch in -> throw it into next gear -> clutch out.
Let it bounce off the rev limiter, if its a full on drag it'll be up there anyway.
Going down gears I always blip the throttle (not double clutch, double clutching is for trucks). Blipping the throttle brings the revs up to what it would be in that gear before letting the clutch out.
Out at wakefield I was downshifting to 2nd at 90k's at the end of the straight, I'd blip the throttle up to 6k revs before letting the clutch out, then back on the accelerator for the corner.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 22:35
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Just to summarise:
- Double-clutching is mostly used on non-synchromesh gearboxes (eg big trucks) although as mentioned above it's sometimes necessary with worn-out synchromesh boxes. It's also used in autocross-type events when you need to select first gear at speed - most synchro's aren't up to the task.
- Double-crunching is something I've never heard of. I have a feeling this is less of a technique and more of a stuff-up.
- Heel-and-toe is extensively used in racing with both synchromesh and non-synchromesh boxes. This has nothing to do with selecting gears; the idea is to prevent lockups/unbalancing the car during downchanges.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 22:42
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Why can I not help but get the feeling someone's been watching a bit too much of a certain movie?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Mon, 24 November 2003 22:46
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A few months ago I had a guy try and tell me I needed "DOS" on my car.
"DOS - Like that movie, push the button and ppfffff. You know - DOS!"
"Ah you mean Nitros Oxide?"
"NOooo DOS!"
"Ohh, you mean NOS"
"Yeah yeah thats it!"
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 00:26
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| micooke wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 02:42 |
I think the quote is:
"YOU almost had me ! Granny shifting not double CRUNCHING like you should."
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you sure the quotes not:
"YOU almost had me ! Granny shifting not double CRUTCHING like you should."
cos you know those guys must be yanking themselves to think that they are actually "racing"
how much skill does it take to drive in a straight line?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 01:24
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mmm flatchanging is always going to be faster than double clutching 
hold right foot flat to floor, stab at clutch while yanking the shifter. if you hit the clutch hard enough, and at the right time, it disengages just as you are slotting in the next gear.. i guess you are actually pulling it out of gear with the clutch still engaged....
but anyways, it's all pretty silly really... unless you have relatively unlimited funds, you will be wanting to minimise drivetrain shock loading.... flatchanging has consumed more gearboxes than i'd like to admit, but taking an extra half second to change makes gearboxes last an order of magnitude longer
FNTF LOL fooly sik bro, i've got NOS powered brakes, and intercooled Subs for fool sikness, lowered my seats, and hotted up stereo, sittin so low i can't see over the dash, so it's gotta be fooly sik fast maaaaate....
i love seeing these young kiddies with baseball caps, seat tilted back so far their head is halfway along the rear side window (they must have bloody short legs!) can't see over the steering wheel etc etc , i love george street on saturdays 
Cya, Stewart
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 01:44
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Because I've got suc ha small power/torque band (about 2000rpm) to play with, I'm trying to shift as fast as possible.
Usually means pulling gear into neutral while still pushing clutch in so that by the time I'm going back into the next gear the clutch is fully in.
Also don't have to heel toe brake as with 23:1 compression ratio I just jam it down a gear just before the corner to be in the correct one & leave my foot on accelerator.
What's the longest anyone's driven with no clutch available?
For me its 500km.
While living Moree & twas Christmas Eve 5:00pm.
Filled up with fuel so I could go home to Brissie. Pulled out of servo & clutch pedal suddenly fell to floor & stayed there. Snapped the damn cable. 
Still had to go to Brissie as I was flying overseas next arvo.
You learn very quickly how to match engine speed with road speed for different gears.
Must admit 98% of the trip was at highway speed in 5th, & the turbo engine had enough pull to overtake in 5th.
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Location:
NSW
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 02:08
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word kenno
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 02:56
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| Quote: |
.... flatchanging has consumed more gearboxes than i'd like to admit, but taking an extra half second to change makes gearboxes last an order of magnitude longer
FNTF LOL fooly sik bro, i've got NOS powered brakes, and intercooled Subs for fool sikness, lowered my seats, and hotted up stereo, sittin so low i can't see over the dash, so it's gotta be fooly sik fast maaaaate....
i love seeing these young kiddies with baseball caps, seat tilted back so far their head is halfway along the rear side window (they must have bloody short legs!) can't see over the steering wheel etc etc , i love george street on saturdays
Cya, Stewart
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My drive shaft probably looks like a drill bit (Kenno, back me up..uv seen me drive )
Our equivalent is Jetty Road, Glenelg. Every kid with a $12 sub, or lowered seat loves cruising there. Whats even funnier is when you see a charade or barina with a phat spoiler, fully shick chrome rims, and a 5inch dump (stock exaust til then ofcoure). Full shick mwate.
I hate charades (expecially turbos), so i blasted a guy trying to sell one on this site. He actually sounded like he wasnt trying to rice-it-up, but he was trying to tell me that its a power house. Whoooh... 1L of RAW POWER!!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 03:10
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| bayka wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 02:26 |
So basically what your all saying is fast and furious is a load of bullshit. . .
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i thought that was a given....!
blowing intake welds on the manifold isn't exactly a common NOS problem...
ithat whole 'blipping' the throttle between changes is called heel and toe-ing (ie toe on the brake, roll heel over onto accelerator to match gearbox and engine revs).
and it's fine for street use, and good practice too. it does no damage if you can do it properly and smoothly.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 03:38
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I move my foot off the brake.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 04:09
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well Pete is you kept your foot on the brake whilst "heeling" the throttle, your braking distance would be reduced - because for that 0.5-1.0 sec that you "blip" the throttle you aren't braking.
With a bit of practice Pete you would prbably reduce you lap times a fair bit if you are doing you blip thingy in most corners
Next year sometime, ill give ya a race in the rolla
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 04:16
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I'm up for a rolla bashing
It would help my braking, especially with my heavy biatch. But I don't think I was using 2nd gear to do a lot of braking, it was just going in there at the last minute at the apex to pull out of the corner - in at 6k revs, up to 7,200 revs then back to 3rd.
I'll try using my heel though.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 04:40
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I was fighting not to hit him with a spanner and putting him out of his misery.
| Shraka wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 15:36 |
So what kinda things could they have said had gone wrong in The Fast and the Furious, and then had the car drive okay afterwards?
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Well for some reason the FLOOR fell out.
If he blew a hose joint (or blew the welds on the intake manifold) then it would run, it'd just run off.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 04:49
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You'll be suprised how quickly you can get a double clutch going after a bit of practice.
I was kinda forced to with my old gearbox as 2nd, 3rd and 4th syncros were pretty muched fucked, the only way I could change was by double clutching it all the time.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 04:49
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Don't forget the MoTeC exhaust.....
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 05:06
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"you're lucky that hundred shot of nitrous didn't crack a piston/throw a rod/drop a valve" makes much more sense
and ffs, how many people actually believe that the floor falling out of the car is a reasonable result of putting too much power thru the engine?!
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Club Member
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sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 05:37
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Norbie where is that old thread when you need it...
way too much rice here 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 05:39
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Heh heh. And I love the way the little bolts come flying out. It looks so funny.
The thing I noticed was that his car was so low, that the piece of metal would just gotten jammed under there, it probably wouldn't have whipped out like it did in the movie.
They should have had something go on the inside, and had black smoke spew from the back. That would have been just as visualy cool, but more realistic (to my knowledge anyway).
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Location:
Campbelltown, NSW
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 06:01
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Double clutching is so not needed for any modern cars (only thrashed ones with realy stuffed syncros)
When your double clutching your just wearing out everything twice as fast including your syncros.
Whats wrong with a big rev as u downshift to match excessive revs?
I normaly give a little blip on downshifts to help prolong the life of my syncros.
BTW my dead T-50 has 354thousand on it so had an alright life its just second gear wont stay in.
anyway just my twocents worth
OH and FF is the worst car movie i have seen its more of a comedy than anything else. And that acting......... i think days of our lives has better actors!!!
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Location:
Melbourne
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November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 06:04
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pannelvan... to blip your throttle, to make any difference to your syncho you need to clutch out, and work the clutch twice... hence double clutching.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 06:05
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| gianttomato wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 15:49 |
Don't forget the MoTeC exhaust.....
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They make MoTeC exhausts in the US. Or someone else makes it and slap a MoTeC sticker on it (like HKS/garret turbos).
If you worked with NOS, you could probably see how big the nostle is. IF they're different between setups. He might've had more than one nostle, which would mean he had more NOS.
NOS bottles are like fuel tanks, you don't know how powerful a car is by the size of the fuel tanks!
Blowing the welds on the intake could happen, depends on what intake he used. It would first blow an intake hose joint I'd imagine, but its still possible. Thats why on the high HP applications (the big green twin turbo V8 ute from supernats) they make the custom intake manifold and actually strengthen it by welding blocks of steel along it.
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 06:14
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| draven wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 16:06 |
"you're lucky that hundred shot of nitrous didn't crack a piston/throw a rod/drop a valve" makes much more sense
and ffs, how many people actually believe that the floor falling out of the car is a reasonable result of putting too much power thru the engine?!
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I'm more worried about the floor being bolted in in the first place Car manuf. don't do this do they?? What's the point?
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Sydney
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July 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 06:16
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This is a funny read
http://www.moviemistakes.com/film459/corrections?c hanges=yes
People put shit on the FF movie, and then somone else came in and corrected them all. (found it looking for Motec exhausts)
This is my favourite:
In the first race, when Brian blows the floorboard out, it creates a shower of sparks from under the car. Wouldn't that make a huge fire when it's mixed with the nos coming out of the exaust pipes?
[There would be no nitrous oxide coming out of the exhaust pipe. Nitrous is fully combusted within the cylinder.]
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 06:48
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After Brian, Dom, Eddie and the Asian guy race down the street Dom starts making fun of Brian. Dom says "Granny shifting, not double-clutching like you should" (and everyone laughs). Double clutching hasn't been around for years, it was primarly used by truckers that didn't have good syncros on their transmissions. Granny shiftingis actually faster than double-clutching, so it's a good thing that Brian was granny shifting. [Double-clutching when upshifting is the popular term for power-shifting + clutch slidding. This lets you raise the rpm before engaging the next gear, u get a kick when you release the clutch. And effectively keeping the rpm in an effective range (like over 5000 rpms) when shifting from 1st to 2nd gear. This is really hard on the clutch, but I don't think Dom care too much about that as he owns his own garage...]
I think that explains it. I think. Anyone give a more detailed explenation of power shifting?
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Location:
Sydney Miranda / Perth Mu...
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 06:54
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In the Movie when that geeky looking dudes pours under the hood of paul walker's car........ states it has like a wet NOS and and sprayer kit or something......... Isn't one as carby set up and the other for EFI. And when Paul brings in the rusted out brunt supra. Jesse is like no shit 2JZ........ Funny coz when they open the Hood it is a non-turbo engine........ Yet on the floor there seems to be a lot of bolt on turbo gear....... "Strapping a Turbo on a normal engine does not make a Turbo Supra" I mean what about the differnet bottom ends???? oils squirters and the alike.........
Watch the drag wars when Michelle Rodrigez's races the dude in the RX-7SP..... First you see her in a car with Race seats..... Next shot on the drag line... Poooffff! Car has normal seats...... Hmmmmmmmm Dummy car prehaps?????
Correct me if i am wrong.... But they could have picked up on a few of the mistakes....
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I supported Toymods
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 07:06
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Pete, check the website. There is no product listing for an exhaust. Better still, chat to one of their friendly dealers. Don't be suprised when you hear uproarious laughter booming back at you. When I (jokingly) suggested I get a Motec exhaust for the "Two Jay Zee", the tuner laughed and proffered that it may lead to premature floorpan rupture.
Rest assured, there is NO SUCH THING as a Motec exhaust. In fact, that "movie mistakes" reference was the only reference on google that suggests such a beast exists. That said, I am sure someone has cashed in, made an exhaust and called it a Motec unit. More fool the buyer.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 07:32
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| MIKE_JZA70_TYPE_R wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 17:54 |
And when Paul brings in the rusted out brunt supra. Jesse is like no shit 2JZ........ Funny coz when they open the Hood it is a non-turbo engine
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No shit?
When Jessie poped the hood, and sais "2JZ no shit!" I was like hang on (Well, the fourth time I saw it, once I knew about Toyota engines)... that model Supra only comes with a 2JZ-GTE and the non-turbo engine (not sure what it's called, 2JZ-GE?).
So why was he so surprised when there is a 2JZ engine in there? I mean, you got a 50/50 chance, and Paul Walker looked convinced enough. Jessie should have known right from the get go that it would be a 2JZ-GTE. In fact, they should all have known. Hell I know and I don't have 10% of the technical expertise they where supposed to.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 08:50
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| Quote: |
cos you know those guys must be yanking themselves to think that they are actually "racing"
how much skill does it take to drive in a straight line?
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hey moron have u ever been to the drags, it is extremely difficult to control a wheelspinning car, 300rwhp cars have chronic fishtailing problems, i've seen ppl hit the wall in these "low" powered cars.
try handling a that same car on a non-prepped surface {normal road}
only a dipshit with a 32 hp shitter would say drag racing is easy.
the reason for this flaming is we lost a $150,000 dragcar a few years back from "driving in a straight line"
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I supported Toymods
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 09:15
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bloody hell some of the people who ripped the movie on that site were stupid
and the guy defending the movie made a few mistakes (including the motec exhaust)
300rwhp is fairly easy to control, but once you get too much more than that it becomes hard to control.
and it is VERY difficult to do perfect launches when you're got a brutal clutch in the car (which you need to hold that much power). you also need balls of steel.
not the same qualities as a race driver, but skills none the less.
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I supported Toymods
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 09:19
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I double clutch my auto falcon every day cause I have a small peepee
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Registered:
July 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 09:31
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| pannelvan_screema wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 17:01 |
Double clutching is so not needed for any modern cars (only thrashed ones with realy stuffed syncros)
When your double clutching your just wearing out everything twice as fast including your syncros.
Whats wrong with a big rev as u downshift to match excessive revs?
I normaly give a little blip on downshifts to help prolong the life of my syncros.
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how can you prolong the life of the syncros by bliping the throttle, when you change gear without double clutch your lower gear isn't even spining, so you're using the syncro, not prolonging it.
many gearboxes pre-90 is pretty bad on downshift, it makes the shifting faster and shaves a few more seconds per lap, and most gearbox doesn't have syncros on 1st gear, and even if there is, the ratio of 1st gear to other gears are too much difference, as noted, if you don't know why you need to do it, and what it does, then don't do it..
But it's a joke to tell people you drive a manual if you can't shift smoothly up and down gears better than an automatic gearbox, and don't tell anybody you lost because you missed a gear... you may as well race an automatic car, every little bit counts, and the less wear you cause on the car, the more chances your car can cross the finish line, namely most important is the tyres, that's why you have to heel toe smoothly and not waste 0.1 seconds of braking time and/or acceleration time, 0.5 seconds in 1 lap means 10 seconds in 20 laps, and how much is that?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 12:05
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| draven wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 19:15 |
bloody hell some of the people who ripped the movie on that site were stupid
and the guy defending the movie made a few mistakes (including the motec exhaust)
300rwhp is fairly easy to control, but once you get too much more than that it becomes hard to control.
and it is VERY difficult to do perfect launches when you're got a brutal clutch in the car (which you need to hold that much power). you also need balls of steel.
not the same qualities as a race driver, but skills none the less.
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by no means am i saying that 300 rwhp is totally uncontrollable, it can be easy, even 500-600 rwhp can be relatively effortless {given all things being equal} but the way this guy is talking, all u need to do is point it straight and put your right foot down, not so sonny-jim, get the facts straight b4 u start bagging shit
/end rant
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 12:12
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Besides, on "The Fast and the Furious" all those kids where making those cars themselves. So actualy driving them, and racing, is only the last step in the challenge.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 22:38
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| gianttomato wrote on Tue, 25 November 2003 18:06 |
Pete, check the website. There is no product listing for an exhaust. Better still, chat to one of their friendly dealers. Don't be suprised when you hear uproarious laughter booming back at you. When I (jokingly) suggested I get a Motec exhaust for the "Two Jay Zee", the tuner laughed and proffered that it may lead to premature floorpan rupture.
Rest assured, there is NO SUCH THING as a Motec exhaust. In fact, that "movie mistakes" reference was the only reference on google that suggests such a beast exists. That said, I am sure someone has cashed in, made an exhaust and called it a Motec unit. More fool the buyer.
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All I could find were these
http://www.parts-accessories.net/ratings/auto_part s_accessories/s_glasspack_mufflers_thrush_vw.html
http://www.motech.uk.com/
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I supported Toymods
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 23:06
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I'll accept it might be a Motech (rather than Motec - no H) exhaust, but I honestly don't think the movie was interested in promoting some esoteric exhaust company in England when it was scripted.
Just like the titanium valve springs.....
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Tue, 25 November 2003 23:08
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*shrug*
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I supported Toymods
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: DOUBLE CLUTCHING the low down
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Wed, 26 November 2003 02:23
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...But still fun to watch... and fun to go watch at the cinema as there are allways so many hot cars in a carpark before and after.
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