| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Adelaide / Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 02:54
|
 |
When you lift the lid on the MKIV Supra, you'll see one of two things stamped next to the 2JZ engine designation number - 'GE' or 'GTE'.
In the case of the JZA80 I picked up a few months back, those little letters read 'GE', which translates to 'No Boost'.
Whist the GTE runs a Twin Turbo set-up, the two JZA80 powerplant options are more or less identical in terms of their internals, save for their compression ratios.
Whilst I spend around 95% of my work day researching every turbo / supercharger conversion combination known to man, a third option has arisen in the past few weeks - Keep her atmo.
What I can't find details on however, is the kw increases to be had on a worked non-forced induction set-up.
The way I figure it, a custom mandrel bent atmo exhaust will gain me a round 3 to 5 kw. Likewise, an APEXi ram-pod air filter and custom air induction tract wil be worth around the same power gains.
Throw in an Apexi SAFC and a new valve timer (with some decent dyno tuning) and there's gotta be some more serious kw gains happening.
- Combined with a suitably tuned aftermarket EMU, what sort of ballpark performance gains will the above be likely to achieve?
- Also, what other modifications could be made to an atmo that will get me some more grunt? (Forged pistons? New conrods? Cylinder head gasket?).
I doubt such a set-up will get even close to a single bolt on snail, intercooler, custom turbs exhaust etc, but I'm curious as to what I could roughly expect.....
Lil help? 
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 04:17
|
|
If you wish to remain naturally aspirated, then there are 5 main areas you ought to concentrate on:
- intake,
- headwork,
- camshafts,
- compression, and
- exhaust.
A crappy cold air intake and a cat back exhaust don't really cut it as they don't address the real issue - they do little to assist flow thru the motor. I'd be suprised if you got any more than 5 hp.
Have you dynoed the car to see what the AF mixtures are like with the standard ECU? If they are close, then a little Nintendo style, piggyback, pretty lights ECU tuneable at only 5 rpm points will do nothing.
I suggest this as a more fruitful path:
Intake mods may be as simple as some off the shelf CAI (in which case expect little gain) or as extensive as 55mm individual throttle bodies (as on the 400 hp Options Supra).
I have demonstrated that the 2JZ has restrictive exhaust ports. Here is another place to gain some horsepower (particularly in conjuction with appropriate camshafts).
The standard cams are relatively low lift units and have a relatively short duration with not a lot of overlap. Cams are tricky to get and as I'm sure you are aware most of the advertised cams are for the GTE. That's fine for the intake side but the exhaust cam lacks the gear drive for the distributor. That said, even a bigger intake cam alone will provide improvements.
A compression increase will provide gains in power and torque. You could achieve it by milling a bit off the head (0.8mm will increase comp to about 10.8:1) or via custom forged pistons (preferable). You could also mill the block and piston crowns as this will decrease the central dish. You should be able to run up to about 12:1 on 98RON unleaded here, but I'd strongly advise that you talk to an engine builder specialised in multivalve engines (the Yank Iron guys will freak that you are already running 10:1).
I would strongly recommend a set of custom headers. Diameter of primaries at least 1.75" and around 330 mm long, tri-Y design, the secondaries being 2 or 2.25" and 600 mm long and finally collecting into a 2.5" exhaust. After that just run a 2.5" system - that's plenty big.
Other things that will aid with engine response included lightening the crank - there is a lot of excess weight there that doesn't contribute to the strength of the crank. Lance from T04r.com suggests the 2JZGTE (and GE as they are the same) conrods need little/no work. I have had mine shotpeened and will be fitting ARP rod bolts for security.
Of course, to get this mess to work, you will need an aftermarket ECU. I suggest something other than the Playstation you suggested. 
I will also say this - sell up and buy a GTE. A bleed valve costs $20.
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 04:32
|
|
| gianttomato wrote on Wed, 26 November 2003 14:17 |
I will also say this - sell up and buy a GTE. A bleed valve costs $20.
|
Indeed. Unless you have a specific reason to go atmo-only (eg you're a nutter like that GiantTomato character), forget the whole crazy idea and go turbo instead. You could spend a zillion dollars squeezing 400hp out of a GE (and it would be a cranky bitch at that power level), or you could spend $20 on the aforementioned bleed valve to get an easy, tractable 400hp from a GTE. I chose the latter option and I'm loving every minute of it.
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide / Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide / Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 04:56
|
|
Do I get thinking music?
Ummmmm......I'm gonna have to ask for 50/50 Eddy.... 
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 04:58
|
|
| Loco wrote on Wed, 26 November 2003 15:38 |
What could I get for the 75,000 ks GE powerplant?
|
a case of beer and a big smile from me
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:00
|
|
and waht would you do with it?
start another 3 litre n/a project?
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:01
|
|
| draven wrote on Wed, 26 November 2003 16:00 |
start another 3 litre n/a project?
|
ahh-huh!
though i do have my eye on a certain 5L n/a project, so the price would have to be right on the 2jz...
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:04
|
|
| ed_ma61 wrote on Wed, 26 November 2003 13:01 |
though i do have my eye on a certain 5L n/a project
|
A certain GZ?
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide / Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:07
|
|
| ed_ma61 wrote on Wed, 26 November 2003 15:58 |
| Loco wrote on Wed, 26 November 2003 15:38 |
What could I get for the 75,000 ks GE powerplant?
|
a case of beer and a big smile from me
|
Throw in a handfull of magic beans and it's yours Jack.
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:12
|
|
| Loco wrote on Wed, 26 November 2003 16:07 |
| ed_ma61 wrote on Wed, 26 November 2003 15:58 |
| Loco wrote on Wed, 26 November 2003 15:38 |
What could I get for the 75,000 ks GE powerplant?
|
a case of beer and a big smile from me
|
Throw in a handfull of magic beans and it's yours Jack.
|
sold 
though seriously, if it comes out, i 'could' be inetersted
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:13
|
|
|
So what motor are we talking about here?
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:14
|
|
86mm is 2JZ....starts me thinking
Do you know what they weigh? Is the 5.4 litre common? Is the burnt out one a 5 litre? What was the go with boring these out - they have some wacky bore protection don't they?
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide / Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:23
|
|
If it comes out, I'll drop you a line ed.
(Provided it comes out thanks to a block and tackle and not a high-speed bull-bar or a tree.....)
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:36
|
|
| Loco wrote on Wed, 26 November 2003 16:23 |
(Provided it comes out thanks to a block and tackle and not a high-speed bull-bar or a tree.....)
|
Some of us have seen one that came out the latter way - much prefer the block and tackle!
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide / Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:40
|
|
That's how my mates engine came out of his 200Sx S15 two weeks ago 
On the upside, I got my Model 5 AVS wheels off the same now extinct Nissan...
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:42
|
|
that's why I'm still good mates with ashling
when he writes his supra off, I'm transplanting everything into my ma61
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide / Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:44
|
|
 Damn that's cold....
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:45
|
|
| Loco wrote on Wed, 26 November 2003 16:10 |
That's how my mates engine came out of his 200Sx S15 two weeks ago
|
Is this the one that crashed on the way back from Victor Habour (near happy valley somewhere)? Red with white wheels and a big bucket of money spent on it? Not insured with all the mods? A guy at work is a CFS volunteer down there and was at the scene. If so your mate is lucky to be alive.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:45
|
|
well, that and the fantastic sex
but we dont talk about that where his girlfriend might hear/read
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide / Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 05:55
|
|
lumpy - That's the one. Close friend of mine. You should see the photos. Out of control drift, hit a tree at 140kmhr, catapulted over a fence and wound up upside down in a paddock.
Bumps, bruises and scratches to his face - NEVER seen someone walk away from a crash like that with FA injuries - incredible.
Here are the wheels (now on my Supra). Only crappy photos so far, as I only got her back a few days back - more photos tonight.
(Sorry, can't access Pbase from work, so have to register to Imagestation to see them).
Draven - Naturally.
|
|
|
Registered:
August 2002
|
|
Re: Potential 2JZ-GE Atmo Power Gains
|
Wed, 26 November 2003 09:09
|
|
i raise you 3 cases.........of imported beer! 
|
|
|
