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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 14:03
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Noticed my crank pully moves forwards and backwards about 2-3mm when the engine is idling. This can't be good can it? or do they move a little like this normally?
Would it be from the crank bolt not bieng tight enough? I hear they have to be 195lb's, my torque wrench only goes to 150lb's
:(-
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 16:01
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No, this aint good.
It will damage the keyway (if it hasnt already)
take it off, clean it up, inspect for damage, put back on with a bit of loctite, and do it up uber tight
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Thu, 27 November 2003 23:54
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well on further inspection, maybe my 2-3mm was abit much, it wobbles forward and backward by about 1-2mm max. is that still not a good sign? are they supposed to be super smooth? even with all those belts running off it?
ok so i can probably manage to take it off
but to put the crank bolt back on? crikey! just how can i do that? put the car into gear? then tighten?
my torque wrench is good for 150ft-lbs, that's 45ft-lbs short of what i need.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Fri, 28 November 2003 00:19
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I cant imagine over tightening that bolt is the worry, get rid of the torque wrench and get a breaker bar and a big poll!
or a rattle gun
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Fri, 28 November 2003 00:22
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ah ok, thanx for the tip, now if you could tell me how to stop the engine turning? I thought about putting it into gear and then turning. But i have an Auto and i have no idea if that is gonna work.
any tricks of the trade?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Fri, 28 November 2003 00:31
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2 ways, put the breaker on, tie it to the crossmember/swaybar etc, and crank the motor over (disconnect coil lead first)
OR
Go and hire the proper tool. Its a bar with a round disc welded to it that has a hole in the middle to put the socket through, and 2 other bolt holes so you can bolt it to the crankpulley, then you just level the two bars against each other
You will probably need this to tighten it back up properly
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Fri, 28 November 2003 01:34
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use a rattle gun
secondly, id be suprised if the keyway isnt already totally fucked-out. hello new Mr.Crank, and Mrs.Pulley ... fingers crossed.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Fri, 28 November 2003 02:20
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fuck me :(-
so chances are high that i'll need a new crank and pulley?
new crank means big bottem end job right? or new engine even.
fuck! 
fuck!
fuck!
by the way thanx for the help.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Fri, 28 November 2003 02:24
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Pull it off (should be easy if its wobbling), and have a good look.
Take the radiator out too, it makes it easier
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Fri, 28 November 2003 02:33
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ok i'll report back here and let you guys know what the deal is.
i hope this isn't gonna turn into something major, otherwise i'll be ready to roll my supra off a cliff with me in it. it's just been problem after problem.
no wonder it was so cheap :(-
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Fri, 28 November 2003 02:38
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| dingaling wrote on Fri, 28 November 2003 10:33 |
i hope this isn't gonna turn into something major, otherwise i'll be ready to roll my supra off a cliff with me in it. it's just been problem after problem.
no wonder it was so cheap :(-
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Hahaha, welcome to the world of imported Toyota's
Its a long smooth road with the occasional pothole (read, football oval sized)
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Fri, 28 November 2003 03:06
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I'd be surprised too if the keyway isn't knackered. Especially if it's been running like that for a while.
We tried to shim my 7m-ge up with brass, gallons of loctitie, new woodruff key and bolting it very very tight. Shook loose again after 2 weeks.
Time for a new 7m or better yet, a 1jz!
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Sat, 29 November 2003 13:48
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yeah has been running like this since i buaght it 4 months ago, have done about 600K's since then.
i'll post back here with my findings. it's just a real bitch of a bolt for me to get off so far.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Sun, 30 November 2003 00:52
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Mine went a trip to Victoria. Started rattling and got worse and worse until you could hear it loudly banging away whilst idling. We did over 1500Km's on that trip, it never fell off and although buggered the bolt was still a bitch to undo.
/start of poor service from particular toyota dealer rant
Funnily enough I took it to a toyota dealer who diagnosed it as a faulty water pump and promptly fitted new pump, changed some hoses and belts, $400 later and it still rattled. Really annoyed me when we found out what it was (from another toyota dealer friend of my dad's who said "it's gotta be the crank pulley. Common fault with m series engines") because they should have noticed it was loose and wobbling when fitting the belts. At least felt guilty and gave me good deals on new spare parts when doing my engine conversion /rant
If you don't take the radiator out at least put a long piece of MDF or similar across the radiator so you don't put the socket/spanner/your hand thru the radiator when the bolt comes off with a BANG.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Sun, 30 November 2003 08:53
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well, i'd say the last mechanic that worked on my engine didn't put that bolt on properly, it was too easy for me to get off, The woodruff key looks pretty worn tho. And the crank bolt is still good, not stripped.
I also put the crankpulley back on without the key, and tightened the bolt up, just to see if it would wobble anymore.
I started the car without the belts on it, and it seemed to be good, well better, still a very so slight wobble.
would you guys recommend i just get a new woodruff key and put it back together and tight the crap out of the pulley bolt? or something more drastic?
is the shaft case-hardened?
as it's not a neat fit anymore. Am hoping the pulley is worn, and not the shaft. What sort of metal is the woodruff key made of? is it ordinary keysteel? or case-hardened, or mild steel?
[Updated on: Sun, 30 November 2003 09:44]
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Sun, 30 November 2003 12:20
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i would be taking a chair, sitting in it, and i would be having a long hard think about the prospect of a new engine in the very near future.
sorry 
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Sun, 30 November 2003 12:40
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Went through this before, had to swap the crank after attempted repair failed after 2 weeks.
Option 1) Weld pulley to crank
Option 2) Buy new engine
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Sun, 30 November 2003 12:53
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The pully is defintly softer then the crank, caught early the crank is normaly ok but the pully dies early along with the key
Had it happen on my 5M-E got a good s/h pully and plenty of loctite on the bolt never had another issue
Dont forget to replace the front main seal as it will be stuffed
Allan
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Sun, 30 November 2003 13:17
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| Allan wrote on Sun, 30 November 2003 23:53 |
caught early the crank is normaly ok
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doesnt sound "caught early" alln
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Sun, 30 November 2003 13:40
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if the pulley wobbles without a key, then it's likely that it has deformed to accomodate the slop in the key. if you're not planning in changing crank and/or engine, then at least dump the key AND the pulley as they're both stuffed.
OT but relevant: we used a very old diesel engine to pump water up to our dairy - was big old circa 1940's southern cross single piston workhorse that ran at a few 100 RPM. It used a key about an inch thick and flywheel required two adults to lift from flat to vertical. So well built, you can still get consumable parts (rings, valves, injectors) for them... anyway
first time fired up in anger, key was 2nd hand with rounded edges and crank/flywheel bolt wasn't tight enough (who has a spanner capable of tightening a bolt approx 12cm diam?). Key was broken before engine got up to speed and the free spinning flywheel undid the nut and rolled into paddock (could have been into the dam so it counts as lucky).
moral of story: the key MUST be an exact fit and it's important that pulley/crank bolts are tightened up to (and beyond) factory specs.
charles.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 05:56
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well fellas the post mortem goes like this:
the woodruff key is phucked as was suspected, here is an idea of what it looks like:
The inside of the crank pulley is worn out, and the crank key slot is heavily worn out too.
so in the end, i guess it wasn't cuaght early enough altho at first i thought i had cuaght it early. i don't know what to do, i have no money for a new engine, i barely got 600K's off the car since i buaght it, she was my baby, now she's no good until i get a new engine! 
If anyone at all could sell me a good crank pulley i might be able to get abit more life out of her aswell as not feel so depressed. Any idea what toyota charge for a new crank pulley? i'm guessing it's hard to get a good crank pulley second hand around here. As for the key i'm just going to engineer my own with a few modifications to get a tight fit, won't be easy but it's my only option until i can save up for a new engine.
*sigh*
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 06:24
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Sorry to hear it is knackered...
Has anyone ever tried welding the pulley to the crank? (as per Black Supra's suggestion).
From my experience, and that of others, it looks like any other "patch up" job will not last very long. We put mine on tightly packed with brass shim and ended up using the blunt end of a block splitter to get it on all the way. Still failed.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 06:45
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lumpy, with your patch up job, did the nut come loose agian? or did the brass shims not hold up?
by the looks of it, id say this wobbling pulley has been this way for a year at least looking at the wear on the parts.
i dunno about welding it, would i ever get it off again if i had too? isn't it the wrong steel to weld to?
i think you guys will be impressed with my patch up job. i'll show you what i'v done with some pics over the next few days(weeks?). It's a good thing my step dad is an engineer (he made his own piston once. Still going stong after 10 years in his old donk.)
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 07:06
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Welding the pulling to the crank was a toyota fix if the engine got this bad, but its not coming off easily again.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 07:33
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Can he use a 5MGE pulley/key
If so, I got one lying around for ya
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 07:48
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BlackSupra: This was a toyota fix? hmmm well i'll do just about anything to get her running again. Thanx for the tip.
CrUZsida: how much you want for the key? if it's the same i'll take it.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 08:25
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Dunno about the key, but the pulley is different
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 09:41
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any idea if the 7mge crank pulley is the same as the 7mgte?
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Toymods Board Member
I supported Toymods
Location:
Turramurra, Sydney.
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 10:17
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A new key from toyota should only be about $3.
A new pulley on the other hand will prolly be about $300.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 11:59
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i figured as much, altho i heard $300USD for a crank pulley, which would mean $500 plus in $AUD thru toyota.
Kristian can import one for $104 plus postage, and celica boy has a 7mge one, unsure if they are the same as the 7mgte or not?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 12:41
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GE is the same
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 12:57
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that's all i needed to hear, thanks. I'll get the GE crank off celica boy and hopefully have this shindig back in action.
Thanx to everyone, I'd be so stuck and clueless otherwise.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Mon, 01 December 2003 22:11
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The bolt never came off, but the shim worked itself loose and soon it was rattling away again. I was always worried the bolt would fly off and the pulley would go through the radiator, but it was only a couple of weeks after "fixing" the pulley that I spat the dummy and did the 1j conversion.
Give your new pulley and key idea a run, if it doesn't work then weld the pulley onto the crank. That should hold it until the headgasket blows 
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Tue, 02 December 2003 14:09
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well if i can get a tight fit with the key, and a way for the bolt to not come loose i should be alright. I've re-designed the key shape to leverage more of the groove for a tight fit, that and a new pulley should hold for awhile. I'll let you all know how it goes.
also lumpy how hard was the 1j conversion? i've been thinking about it for ages, but then i think to myself, it would be so much easier to just get the same engine and not have to stuff around with wiring, ecu etc.
do you notice much difference going from the 7mgte to the 1jz?
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Tue, 02 December 2003 22:29
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It's not physically that hard, as if you get a jza-70 front cut you can just bolt it all in, and then wiring it up for me took a while, but now there are ALL the pinouts/wiring diagrams on the net so it's not so bad. We took a bit of time and care with mine to make it all work schmick, and used quite few new bits like engine mounts, shockers, suspension bushes etc etc. All up it cost me around $6000 - doing the work myself (and it was manual front cut).
The 1j is a good motor, but the age of the jza-70's means they've usually done quite a few km's and the turbos are on their way out. Remeber they are a twin turbo, and not cheap to get rebuilt (twice the cost) and also not very good for bigger power applications - then going single turbo is expensive too.
If I were you, I'd get another 7m-gte, do the head studs, metal HG, new bearings, forged pistons (if you can afford them), and a high-flowed CT-26, 3in exhaust etc to start with. It would be a cheaper/less hassle way than 1jz.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Tue, 02 December 2003 23:49
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| lumpy wrote on Wed, 03 December 2003 09:29 |
It's not physically that hard, as if you get a jza-70 front cut you can just bolt it all in, and then wiring it up for me took a while, but now there are ALL the pinouts/wiring diagrams on the net so it's not so bad. We took a bit of time and care with mine to make it all work schmick, and used quite few new bits like engine mounts, shockers, suspension bushes etc etc. All up it cost me around $6000 - doing the work myself (and it was manual front cut).
The 1j is a good motor, but the age of the jza-70's means they've usually done quite a few km's and the turbos are on their way out. Remeber they are a twin turbo, and not cheap to get rebuilt (twice the cost) and also not very good for bigger power applications - then going single turbo is expensive too.
If I were you, I'd get another 7m-gte, do the head studs, metal HG, new bearings, forged pistons (if you can afford them), and a high-flowed CT-26, 3in exhaust etc to start with. It would be a cheaper/less hassle way than 1jz.
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When I hinted at these facts ages ago everyone was bitching calling me a fool, Interesting to now have someone thats actualy done it say's the same thing!
I think for $6000 you could make one very tuff 7M-GTE and not have to worry about engineers?
Mechining + balance ~$1000
Pistons (forgies) ~$1500??
Gaskets, ARP hardware and misc $1000
Hi-Flow CT-26 $1100
550cc injectors ~$600
Lexus AFM $?? $100-200??
about $5500
Should be good for what 400-500hp?
and good thing is it will all look stock from the outside still and its basicly a brand new engine... just another 7M-GTE
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Wed, 03 December 2003 00:36
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It all depends on where you are starting from and what you aim to do. I had a 7m-GE, and wasn't confident that I could get a decent 7M-GTE front cut that wouldn't required HG work etc etc. So my original intention was to get a 1jz, it wouldn't need any extra work once put in, and would have a 50Hp adavntage over a stock 7M-GTE. Now of course the turbo's need fixing and I'm going to a single turbo!!
But for dingaling, if he already has the 7m-gte, why bother mucking around with a 1jz front cut? Just spend some time and money sorting it out and it'll be quicker than a stock 1j. Alternatively, bite the bullet and get the 2J!!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Wobbly crankpulley, what to do?
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Wed, 03 December 2003 00:58
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| lumpy wrote on Wed, 03 December 2003 11:36 |
bite the bullet and get the 2J!!
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Fair enough I defiently agree on that point a late TT JZA80 front cut is VERY good value for an MA70 upgrade if you have that kind of money. Lots of good bits to bolt on!
Allan
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