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Registered:
May 2002
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2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Mon, 29 July 2002 07:10
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Okay..one for the 2t-g buffs...
does any one know if its possible to attach 3tg-teu injection + turbo manifolds+turbo to a 2t-g, (same bolt pattern arnt they?)
use a copper head gasket to lower the compression slightly and run it on the 3tg-eu computer and run stock boost?
OR
Am i just dreaming??
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Mon, 29 July 2002 10:13
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Okay, the 3TGTEU manifold is apparently a bolt on, just pull of yours and try it, dun be lazy 
However, regarding the 3TGTEU ECU, this controls spark as well. So unless you run the 3TGTEU head (worse design then 2TGEU apparently), you will have problems there.
I know the 2TGEU ecu has been set up on a turbo 5K engine of my mates, but he is unable to find out any details.
Also along those lines, a gen 1 3SGE has no problems running a turbo.These are both AFM ecus... maybe there is something to that?
Anyways, I'd get it all bolted on and plumbed up, then try running low boost on the 2TGEU ecu.
Regarding compression, the 2TGEU tops out at 9:1 for the latest model, so you could prolly run 14psi on it with standard fuel.
Set the base timing to about 5 deg BTDC, run stock boost for a week at least.
Run CA18DE injectors, these are the same resistance I think, and are 270 or 280cc vs the standard 210cc. This should be plenty for stock boost.
lemme know how you get on.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Mon, 29 July 2002 10:23
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ok, the exhuast manifold and turbo will bolt straight onto the 2TG head.... the inlet manifold off of the 3TGTE will not, just find yourself a standrad 2TGEU efi manifold, the wreckers round the corner have one for $150 complete with injectors.
umm as for the ca18 injectors, I dunno but are the plugs compatible and do they fit in the fuel rail ??
I am going to be efi-ing my 2TG soon and am ruinning aftermarket ecu straight off, and I am gfoing to run 3TGTE injectors aswell, these flow at about 300cc I think.
otherwise a good idea.... I was going to do the turbo on the 'ol 2TG trick myself, but there were a efw other factors that ruled it out for me....
but good luck with it.....
ohh as for the 3tgteu ecu, I dun think it w9ould work because of the twin spark design.... have heard of late model 4age ecu's being used....
Brendon
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Mon, 29 July 2002 10:34
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yep, twin spark will rule out 3TGTEU ECU unless you swap heads.
I'm not sure if CA18DE injectors will fit, they are bolt in for bluetop 4AGE, and i'm pretty sure 4AGE are same shape as 2TGEU. bluetop 4AGE MAP are same as 2TGEU, 210cc and same resistance (forgot it).
of course, if you have 3TGTEU injectors, try fitting these.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Mon, 29 July 2002 10:39
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Yeah the 3tgteu injectors definately fit, same plugs as the 2TGEU wiring loom aswell, I think they have a different resistance though, I'm no efi whiz so I don't understand all that part.......
can someone elaborate more on this ??
Brendon
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Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Mon, 29 July 2002 23:26
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if you have the 3tgte head just use that it will be heaps easier re:computers
if it is going to be nearly stock then you may as well just use the 3tgte head on a 2tg block, you prolly wont even notice a difference in the heads, and then you can use the 3tgte inlet manifold
as for standard 2tg pistons i wouldnt risk it, a 3tgte on its own kills pistons damn quick and that is a compression ratio
of 7.8:1 not 9:1 (2tg), and im guessing you would use a 3t crank also so personally id prefer low compression forged pistons in there and not have to worry about shooting one through the head and out the bonnet
i didnt think you could use nissan injectors as they are a different type of plug, get the black injectors from a 7mgte 450cc this will give you a bit more play
i guess you have to ask yourself ....what are you trying to do anyway ?....do you want something cheap, is that why you are thinking of the hybrid as you have the parts ?...or prepared to spend money
if you get a aftermarket computer then the potential is endless .....
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Tue, 30 July 2002 04:09
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as fotr putting the 3tgte head onto the 2tg.. is this possible.....???!?!
where does the dizzy go then ?? cos I think the dizzy is in the head of the 3tg, and in the block of the 2tg, now if ya use the 3tgt head then ya need 8 plug leads......
but yeah, I don't think that will work......
Brendon
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Tue, 30 July 2002 09:41
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the 3tgte dizzy has a short shaft that runs off the intake cam if i'm not mistaken, and since the twin spark setup has nothing to do with the block then i guess it would be possible, but may change the compression a little(?). the 2TG dizzy drive shaft in the block could then be removed/covered over.
brendon, remember that the latest 2TGEU was VERY similar to the early 3TGTEs.
hmm this has really got me thinking now!!! imagine a 3TGTE turbo engine, just like the real thing, but with an engine number 2Txxxxxxx (on the block) for those registration issues, maybe even bore the 2T block to 1.8L
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Tue, 30 July 2002 12:55
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First off, thanks for all the replies
Okay, the guy who sold me the engine had it rebuilt about 6 months ago (he had it in a morris minor project car but replaced it with a worked 4age...did very little driving) so i dont really want to pull it down again.I pretty much want to leave the bottom end alone and run a rather tame turbo set up without destroying the engine in the process or drastically shortening its lifespan (am i dreaming again?).
Cost is a big factor thus the reason for using 3tg-te gear,tho changing the head isnt really an option.
So from what i gather a possible set up would be:
3tg-teu exaust manifold + turbo
2tg-eu inlet manifold + computer
3tg-teu injectors
Is an intercooler such low boost?
are ther e any advantages to the 4age computer
copper head gasket
Would it be neccesary to upgrade the brakes?
please bear with me..i know sweet dick all..
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Tue, 30 July 2002 13:22
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OK.
the 3TGTEU ECU DOES NOT control spark. It is a fuel only system, based on an early bosch design, similar to the 2TGEU EFI system. The spark is controlled only by the distributor, which has internal weights & vacuum advance/retard, whereas an ECU controlled dizzy would have the advance mechanisms locked, like the early distributor 4AGE's. The 3TGTEU ECU doesnt know squat about whether it has 4 or 8 spark plugs. each pair fire together anyway.
As said, the 3TGTEU inlet manifold will not fit the 2TG head. the ports are completely different spacing & size. The exhaust manifold however, will fit perfectly.
the 3TGTEU head can be put on the 2TG block, in fact, the late model 2TG's have exactly the same block as the 3TGTEU, just the shorter stroke crank.
I believe CA18DE 270cc injectors are bosch top feed style, and as such, will fit your 2TG manifold, dunno about the plugs though, but they can always be changed. The CA18DET injectors are definately this design, but are closer to 400cc.
A set of 3TGTEU injectors would probably be ideal, at 295cc.
Has anyone actually got any sort of proof that the 2TG heads are a better design than the 3TGTEU's? Almost everyone has this "I heard" approach about the 2 heads, but i'd love to see some figures to support this. There are plenty of 3TGTEU's out there making in excess of 300hp without a problem.
I hate to be a pessimist, but i dont like your chances of keeping the 2T pistons intact with a comprimised engine management system made up of different bits n pieces. Why not look for a cheap second hand microtech MT4 or the like? Definately run an intercooler, even at 6psi, if you plan to go ahead with this project. Detonation is the enemy. If you can avoid detonation, you might just make this work!
Cheers
[Updated on: Tue, 30 July 2002 13:25]
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Tue, 30 July 2002 19:13
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i'd err on the side of saftey and run an intercooler - keep the charge cool dude.
um, why bother with a 4AGE computer? like te72 said - get yourself a secondhand microtech or something similar to control it - by the time you adapt the stock 4AGE computer to your engine and do dizzy mods it probably won't be worthwhile (unless you already have a 4AGE loom, ECU and all sensors)
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Tue, 30 July 2002 22:08
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Okay, first off regarding pistons blowing up and what not.
My friend has a bluetop 4AGE in his AE86.
He has been running 10psi on it for about 20,000kms now, roughly 1 year.
He runs retarded timing, standard injectors, and tricked computer for more fuel. Oh, and a .8mm copper head gasket which would give him 10:1 compression. BP ultimate is used, and a VR4 intercooler as well.
2TGEUs run much less compression, so one would have to imagine 7psi would be fine with bigger injectors and intercooler. Forged Pistons or not.
And don't bother changing ECU unless you really have to. Just gonna cost more money and will probably be unnecesesary, especially if the 3TGTEU doesn't control spark, so use this computer.
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Toymods Board Member
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Wed, 31 July 2002 00:45
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Depending on what generation 2TGEU you have depends on the compression..
The 3rd generation 2TG has 8.4:1 compression whereas the last generation has 9.0:1 compression.. 8.4:1 would be fine to run a low pressure turbo on...
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Wed, 31 July 2002 13:58
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No Message Body
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Registered:
May 2002
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Banned member
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Thu, 01 August 2002 06:34
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145 hp is nothing compared to what a NA 2tg can produce, more like 250+ maybe even 300+ with a lot of hard tuning
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Thu, 01 August 2002 06:57
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heh, 250+ you reckon?
I haven't seen any dyno graphs or heard anyone talking over 200hp with 2TG.
That said, it makes me wonder, when you could build one to 2000cc, big compression, huge cams, exhaust and intake....
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Thu, 01 August 2002 09:22
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t_temperley,
The 88260 head is indeed a low compression version but as long as you keep boost pressure low then even (9.0:1 would not be an issue.
If you are looking a t alow cost turbo setup then yes fitting the 3TGTEU exhaust manifld and Turbo is not a bad idea. You will also need the relevany Oil pipe plumbing. Speaking of oil I'd personally recommend fitting a 3TGTE oil pump to ensure the oil gets to the turbo in a reliable fashion.
Use the 2TG dizzy it should work fine for the purpose if it is a points type dizzy just ensure you are religous in changing them Detonation is indeed your enemy.
As a comment on the pistons both the 3TGTE and 2TGEU pistons in stock form are cast and the low compression 2TGEU items are not much different to the 3TGTE items anyway.
145hp at the flywheel is more than standard for your 2TG so if that is indeed the case he has played with it. Bigger N/A cams or increaced compression will not be all the desirable once you put a turbo on. If you can ask him waht was done to acheive that figure.
Hope it works out for you.
Celicamad85,
Mate the BEST know result from a 2TG is 200 FWHP !.
I have heard rumour of a Maximum of 220 FWHP from the US but that is more than likely a creative figure and I am not sure there Dyno's are exactly comparable ! The best claimed result by Sean Malony is 200 FWHP last I asked him (some years ago now) and the best mentioned by Graham Wilkins is 199 FWHP, given Graham Wilkins experience and reputation any acheivement over that in a 2TG that actually lasts would indeed be something impressive.
Let me quantify that by adding this does not include the 16 valve racing version of the "2TG" (very loosly a 2TG by this stage !)
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Location:
New Zealand
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Thu, 01 August 2002 10:20
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well, with the cams you could adjust them to remove the overlap. There is 4 holes on each cam, and 4 holes in the cog, so you should be able to get it relatively close to no overlap..... or just drill some more holes in the cogs.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 2t-g + 3tg-teu turbo and injection bits
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Thu, 01 August 2002 12:49
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| thetoyman75 wrote on Thu, 01 August 2002 7:22 PM |
As a comment on the pistons both the 3TGTE and 2TGEU pistons in stock form are cast and the low compression 2TGEU items are not much different to the 3TGTE items anyway.
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and we know how easy the 3TGTE pistons break the ring lands with detonation!!
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