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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Wed, 31 December 2003 04:02
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I just called my insurance company (which I will not name) that is underwritten by AAMI...
I asked them what they thought was the current market value according to them (which is via Glass guide) and they said $12000 approx but they then said that they had changed all of their policies to agreed values and mine was $12500 (they never told me this)
I proceeded abusively and they specified that the maximum they would provide is $14000... I then asked to speak to a supervisor whom I talked with abusively for approx 25 minutes and then she agreed to a maximum of $16000 cover... which I am still not happy with!
FYI: I drive a '91 GT Four Group A with reasonably low (120,000) k's in top notch condition
I would advise that anyone who uses an insurance company underwritten by AAMI contacts them immediately and ensures that their values are accurate... and if like me you are not entirely successful in your valuation then change insurance companies... (luckily my insurance is due for renewal in Jan)
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Location:
Blacktown, Sydney
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Wed, 31 December 2003 05:08
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thanks for the tip bro ...
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Location:
Newcastle NSW
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Wed, 31 December 2003 05:19
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$16000, and your not happy with it? Ring around some other insurance companies and find out how much they will insure you for. You will be lucky to to find one any better. As for the amount of k's, they don't give a crap. I bought my cressida earlier this year with 68,000 k's on it and my insurance co will only cover it for $7000.
Redbook quotes your car as being worth between 9500-12300. From experience you can take a couple of g off the redbook figure to get an accurate amount you would be able to sell it for.
Depreciation sucks
Unfortunately record new car sales going on have ruined resale values for all second hand cars.
As for AAMI, when I went to insure the SX I bought recently for the purchase price they said it was too low and wanted to know if there was something wrong with it and ended up having to insure it for a grand more than I paid. Can't complain about that!!
I think $16000 is a fair amount to insure it for. Certainly much more than its worth.
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I supported Toymods
Toymods Club Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Wed, 31 December 2003 05:26
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In my experience, most major in$urance companies will reduce the value of your car every year (unfortunately they don't really keep their policy prices in line with this).. Basically they do it because they can get away with it. Because not that many people will really stick up to them as you did.
Last time i rang around to see if i could get cheaper comprehensive on the Corolla, I found a couple of places that were a damn site cheaper than the rip-off mob i was with.. The catch? The "market" value they placed on the car was around $5000. They were happy to insure it for an agreed value (up to a certain limit) but that would mean increasing the premium by up to about an extra $1000 per year..
The answer? Fuck it. NRMA 3PP. $350 a year. 
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Wed, 31 December 2003 05:59
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Just to show how wrong they are... the two at the top are Group A's and the rest are standard GT Fours... these are real ads taken from the Trading Post online (for various states) today.
TOYOTA CELICA GT4 Grp A, limited edition, 5spd, black with black interior, exc condition, $21500, ESD313, (0411) 209617, Carrum Downs
TOYOTA CELICA 1991 AWD
5spd manual, a/c, P/steer, Group 4 turbo, GT4 group A no 33 classic rally spec, number 33 red, must be seen, genuine kms 98,000, immac condit
-$17900 ono Annerley (0412) 245 672
TOYOTA CELICA GT4 1990, 5 spd Manual, Turbo timer, Blow off valve, Immobiliser, central locking, power windows, electric mirrors, a/con, keyless entry, p/steer, Pirelli tyres on alloys, only 133000 klms, Reg'd 02/04, VGC -$14000 WOODRIDGE 3808 2612 or (0401) 519 859
TOYOTA CELICA GT4 TURBO
red 1990 model, only low kms, air conditioning, power steering, central locking, mags, alarm, perfect condition
-$13750 SURFERS PARADISE (0413) 736 291
Toyota Celica 1990 four wheel drive grey coupe 5 speed manual, 153000kms, GT4, new tyres, alarm/immobiliser, registered 5/2004, log books, all power options ULW-863 $13000 negotiable KENSINGTON 0403-35 4106 joey@purplemiles.com
TOYOTA CELICA GT4 1990 Turbo 4WD, red, 3in exhaust, filter, timer, 17in chrome, boost gauge, full sound system, alarm system, fully engineered, always garaged, immaculate condition, $13500 negotiable, MSD-18B COFFS HARBOUR 02-6652 2122 or 0408-657400
Toyota Celica GT4 turbo 1990 5 speed manual, 150000kms, power options, CD, 10/2004 rego, new tyres WEP-283 excellent condition $11999 negotiable BELMONT 0421-35 0592 or 02-49453669
Toyota Celica GT4 1990 Aust. Delivered. 4WD turbo. Grey, full elects. Tint/windows. CD, RWCert. Urgent sale. Lady owner. Reg. FBN260. $11,600 (03) 98798424 (0438)229700 Ringwood
Toyota Celica GT4 1991, Aust delivery, 4WD, turbo, man, red, CD, fully optioned, tinted, mags, exhaust, ABS, books, 10mths reg:RAP847, EC, $11,600 (03)97090633, (0401)314939 Noble.Park
Toyota Celica GT4-Turbo 1991 4WD Blue duco, Coupe electrics, etc and more GT features, pwr windows, air con, pwr steer, alloys, AGT-490 $14990 Wagon Wheel Motors 1385 Sydney Road Fawkner LMCT 7297 (03)93574447
CELICA 1990 GT4 Manual, red turbo 4WD, power chip, Pioneer stacker, alarm, immobiliser, tinted windows, immaculate condition, WLF-811, $15900 or near offer FULLARTON 0416-03 0816
TOYOTA CELICA 1991 GT4 turbo, 4WD, immaculate condition, low kms, Clarion 6 stacker CD stereo, metallic red, $17200, VBl-645 DERNANCOURT 0412-71 2072
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Thu, 01 January 2004 08:24
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1975 Toyota Corolla, 1.2l manual, 600,000kms, flogged, never serviced, 18yo male driver, driven every day with no remorse, $15,800 ONO.
Those ads don't mean shit. Just because someone advertises a car at price X doesn't mean that it will sell for that price, or anything even resembling that price. "Market Value" is based off actual sales, not dreamers who post ridiculous prices or have romantic notions of what their cars are worth.
Red book is generally on the LOWER side of the actual value, and Glass's Guide is generally more accurate and sometimes on the HIGHER side.
That said - it is not legal for an insurance company to change anything on your policy once you have paid for it - it is a contract for a set period (generally 12 months).
When the contract ends (generally a year after inception) they offer you a new contract, which you MAY or MAY NOT choose to undertake.
When the contract has ended, they have every right to change whatever they like, as long as they notify you (be it a telephone call, a new renewal notice or a whole new set of policy booklets and documentation).
You said your insurance renews in January - I think you will find that your insurance company is well within their rights to make the change and did not 'rip off' anybody.
People like you are just like the media - quick to make a stink out of something that is perfectly commonplace and/or a load of rubbish.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Thu, 01 January 2004 08:41
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| Quote: |
In my experience, most major in$urance companies will reduce the value of your car every year (unfortunately they don't really keep their policy prices in line with this).. Basically they do it because they can get away with it. Because not that many people will really stick up to them as you did.
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Another case of someone who doesn't know what they are talking about kicking up a stink. The insured value offered on a car has very little effect on policy pricing. Something like 2% of insurance claims in Australia are actually 'total loss' claims (ie. the car's agreed/market value is totally paid out rather than the vehicle just being repaired).
Which means that 98% of the claims - and therefore 98% of the price you pay - are nothing at all to do with the value offered for the car. Your car can be worth five bucks... yet you can still cause $45,000 damage to a BMW if you don't see a stop sign... or $150,000 damage to an office building if you spin off a wet road.. or many many millions of dollars if you lose control into a car yard. So really the insured value itself means squat as far as pricing goes.
Values on cars are generally decreased on insurance policies every year. Why? BECAUSE THEY ARE WORTH LESS.
You should also consider the features of the insurance policy like coverage for towing, rental cars, windscreen coverage, what kind of claims service you'll be getting, that kind of thing. If anyone here had actually read their insurance documents, they would know that many companies offer up to $20million coverage against damage caused by you. Which means that even if your car is worth $100,000 it is still only half a percent of the amount that the company is insuring against.
And before anyone thinks they're really smart and points out that some companies charge more for Agreed Value than Market Value, or charge more when you ask them to increase their value, then there is a good reason for this:
If a company insures a car for more than they feel it is worth, they believe that the risk of a claim is much higher. If you know your car is insured for a great value, you'll be less worried about leaving it unattended in a carpark, or out in a storm. In addition, most companies would feel that fraud is more likely if a high payout figure is guaranteed on a car - if someone knows they're going to make money out of their car they are more likely to have it 'stolen'.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Thu, 01 January 2004 09:18
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Aami sux big 12"cock, They wrote my bike off with out telling me the date,or payed me for my bike yet ive only got the fairings to go new paint and sticker kit and the person whom was sposed to buy it off me will have there bike.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Thu, 01 January 2004 23:53
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ive never had anything but touble with insurance. endless hassles. company after company stuffing up quotes and not honouring prices etc etc.
just got insurance for my gf's aw11. nothing but hassles.
one comapny that will remain nameless as ive simply forgotten them  it was one of the big name companies aami or cgu iirc. refused to insure the aw11 purchased for 8200 as the "market value" for an aw11 was apparently $13000 now hate to say it but if you paid 13000 for an aw11 you got ripped... she paid 8200 for a minter with stuff all miles on it.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Fri, 02 January 2004 00:38
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The main problem here is the Glass guide haven't kept any real records on the Group A and as such the insurance company has no idea what its worth...
I have emailed Shannons to see what they do as I am planning some fairly big upgrades for the GT4 and it will end up being a weekend car so as I don't rack up k's on it.
I find this problem really annoying as I know heaps of people with stock cars that are overinsured (e.g. AE92 4AC @ $9000)
PS 7M... my insurer DID change the contract without informing be like 6 months ago... I just found out the other day... they say that they could do it because it was listed as "Market Value" which when I insured the car was high 17K according to the rep and it is now $12500 so they say to me that they are doing me a favour.... Thanks heaps insurance company!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Sat, 03 January 2004 01:47
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PS 7M... my insurer DID change the contract without informing be like 6 months ago... I just found out the other day... they say that they could do it because it was listed as "Market Value" which when I insured the car was high 17K according to the rep and it is now $12500 so they say to me that they are doing me a favour.... Thanks heaps insurance company!
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You seem to have a little trouble understanding the difference between agreed and market value.
Agreed value is a set figure that they print on your paperwork that they guarantee will not change for a period of 12 months.
Market value means that you will be paid what your car is worth on the open market at the time of your claim. This generally means that your car will be assessed before a payout is made and that, at the time, they will take into consideration and accessories you have and the general condition of the car.
You will find that many companies don't like to quote a figure for 'market value' - because of people like you who JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND how it works. If they give you a price on market value it's an indication of what an average car is likely to be worth at the current moment. It doesn't mean that this figure is what you will get for your car when you crash it in a week, 6 months, or 4 years time. You car may has half as many kms as average, or it may have twice as many. It may be fully optioned or a povvo pack. It may be a shitter with a worn interior and stuff.. or it may be a grandma car. all is taken into consideration with Market Value.
Also, the indicative Market Value figure you would be quoted over the phone HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR INSURANCE COMPANY WHATSOEVER. They do not decide the figure. They go off a guide like Red Book or Glass' Guide which specialises in valuing cars and accruing data on motor vehicle sales.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Sat, 03 January 2004 04:34
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you work for an insurance company dont you
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Location:
East Doncaster, Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Sun, 04 January 2004 03:25
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you work for an insurance company dont you
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No, but I have spent some time in the industry
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This certain insurance company quoted me 3k valuation on a sprinter with a trueno nose and 4age engine... and a maximum up to 1.4 on repairs... so god forbid i hit the nose and it costs me more to find another which i have to pay for + labour
i think thats accurate
or not
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This may not be what you want to hear, but at the end of the day it's just a 20 year old car with an almost-as-tired engine retrofitted... and as for the nose - the car has a nose from factory, just because this particular type is a little harder to come by doesn't mean that it actually adds any value as functionally it's still exactly the same as a stock one.
To the right person at the right time in the right place this type of car may be worth a small fortune... but as far as a valuation on the car goes it's still just a two door Corolla with no special features.
That is why you need to go through a specialist insurer or a broker that is very flexible, they can take into account your precious front end and perhaps offer you a different value. As an example, I had a friend with a Fiat 125S that has been fully restored. As far as the average motor vehicle valuer is concerned... it's a 30 year old car with a two litre engine, no air conditioning and no power steering... so it's worth buggerall. But, to an enthusiast this type of thing may be worth $15,000.
The trick.. go to a specialist insurer and they will offer a better value. This doens't mean they'll give you what your car has cost or what you think it may be worth, but it means they will take things into consideration a little more solidly.
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Location:
East Doncaster, Melbourne
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Sun, 04 January 2004 04:58
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as much as its annoying to me 7M-Brisbane... i agree with you... we all know what a trueno nose is worth, but unfortunitly the insurance company doesn't count it as one...
factory built aus spec sprinters didn't come with trueno fronts  ... so this trueno nose has been installed as an after market part...
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Sun, 04 January 2004 23:23
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Another thing to note is that when you insure a new car check the value they cover it at.
I recently got insurance for my Ute I paid $52,000 for it and the initial quote gave me cover for $32,000 but also said that in the event of total write off in the frist year they would replace the car as new?
You can't get an SS Ute for $32,000
I ended up agreeing on $45,000.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Mon, 05 January 2004 01:09
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I think the main issue I have here is the valuer or method of valuation that the insurance company is using (Glass Guide) and the fact that the morons at Glass Guide insist that the Group A is worth not a cent more than the standard GTFour.
I have spoken to these morons and emailed them and this is the response I got:
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We have that vehicle listed as a Toyota Celica GT-4 Turbo 2D Liftback. There is a note on that model that there was the Group A Rallye pack released in 1991 with 150 imported - but as they were the same price as the standard GT-4 to buy retail we don't have a specific model pricing for them.
Your best bet is to use the pricing for the GT-4 Turbo as after 12 years it will be approximately the same.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Tue, 06 January 2004 02:30
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Um..
Seeing I have access to both Glass's Guide AND redbook here - I can tell you for a FACT Glass's have the ST185R (March 1990 to December 1992)GT-4 Turbo Celica listed at more than any of the values you have mentioned...
Are you sure they are using the Glass's Guide ??
What Value are they Using ?? (1 star, 2 Star or 3 Star ??)
What exact vehicle are they using ?? (what NVIC code)
I personally would value the (Feb 1991 onwards GT-4) with low kms as stated as closer to $19,000. But before you ask - NO, I do not want to unsure your car...
That's probably realistic from a retail dealers sale price...
Sure, there are some wood ducks that would pay more - but then again, there are some people who go out and buy Hyundai Accents thinking they have great re-sale value... 
Edit:
Another thing that was touched on - everyday I get people trying to tell me that just because they have spent $30,000 on a car, then that's what it is worth...
Example...Today a dickhead calls up and gets put straight thru to me...(I'll find out who the consultant was and get them later... )
He buys a 1985 AE82 1.6L Toyota Corolla CS Auto sedan about 12 mths ago for $2,800.
It has 255,000kms when he buys it.
He tells me the paint was a little faded, had mismatched tyres, and the engine blew lots of smoke after he drove it for about 3 mths...
So, he spends $2,750 on rebuilding the engine, $3,900 on a respray, $1,250 on new wheels and tyres, $1,100 on getting Air conditioning fitted, $450 on having power steering fitted and $495 on an alarm and immobiliser with 4 door central locking..
He is pissed at me because the maximum value I would suggest it is worth is about $5,000. He said it would cost him about $15,000 do rebuild it...
Just because you spend money on a car - it does not always add value...
[Updated on: Tue, 06 January 2004 02:45]
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Tue, 06 January 2004 11:56
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| Southo wrote on Tue, 06 January 2004 13:30 |
Example...Today a dickhead calls up and gets put straight thru to me...(I'll find out who the consultant was and get them later...)
He buys a 1985 AE82 1.6L Toyota Corolla CS Auto sedan about 12 mths ago for $2,800.
It has 255,000kms when he buys it.
He tells me the paint was a little faded, had mismatched tyres, and the engine blew lots of smoke after he drove it for about 3 mths...
So, he spends $2,750 on rebuilding the engine, $3,900 on a respray, $1,250 on new wheels and tyres, $1,100 on getting Air conditioning fitted, $450 on having power steering fitted and $495 on an alarm and immobiliser with 4 door central locking..
He is pissed at me because the maximum value I would suggest it is worth is about $5,000. He said it would cost him about $15,000 do rebuild it...
Just because you spend money on a car - it does not always add value...
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How true!
It cost us a fair bit to get our 'Rolla fitted with a 4ag last year...(more than I'd care to admit), and it's insurance value (agreed) wouldn't cover it's "re-doing" (but would cover a suitable replacement )
The Cressida is even worse off because, like the bloke in the example above, we spent a fair bit on getting it to a reasonable standard - more than what the insurer would agree to cover it for. So, if it is a total loss, I'm out of the modded vehicle "game", but will at least have enough money to get a reasonable replacement. That's about as good as it gets...
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Wed, 07 January 2004 04:07
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| Southo wrote on Tue, 06 January 2004 13:30 |
he spends $2,750 on rebuilding the engine, $3,900 on a respray, $1,250 on new wheels and tyres, $1,100 on getting Air conditioning fitted, $450 on having power steering fitted and $495 on an alarm and immobiliser with 4 door central locking..
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This guy is kidding himself... $2750 for a 4AC rebuilt!
BTW what version of Glass guide do you have which said circa 19K? for the GT4... Just Car specifically stated that Glass's is what they used... I don't know about the star rating though
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Insurance company rip off!!!! (Read me!)
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Wed, 07 January 2004 09:20
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Mid December 2003
"Glass's Auto Complete Guide"
Page 403, Top Left Column...
They have a 1 star, 2 Star and 3 Star rating.. they explain the rating in greater detail, but basically they are....
1 Star - Dealer Wholesale / Below Average Condition
2 Star - Dealer Trade in / Average Condition
3 Star - Dealer Sale Price / Good - Above Average Condition
They do not list the Grp A Rallye seperately until the ST205 model (1994)
however it shows.....
Toyota Celica GT4 Turbo 2 Dr Liftback
ST185R series
Available March 1990 to December 1992
1990 - * $7,400 - ** $10,600 - *** $14,500 - Ave Km - 207,000
1991 - * $8,900 - ** $12,200 - *** $16,300 - Ave Km - 195,000
1992 - * $9,300 - ** $12,800 - *** $17,100 - Ave Km - 180,000
So, basing it on a standard 1991 model in Above average condition, with 120,000kms (and being a somewhat more desirable Grp A model), my 15 years of Valuation experience would say that the car would be worth in the vicinity of $19,000 (sight unseen)
who knows what Just cars are basing their values on...
I wouldn't worry too much - they only offered me $11,000 for my Cressida with a 2JZ-GTE in it. Naturally I took my business elsewhere
[Updated on: Wed, 07 January 2004 09:23]
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