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gianttomato
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Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Wed, 24 March 2004 01:27

Sorted out most of the wiring from the half cut but one thing has me bamboozled - the speed sensors on the auto and their input into the ECT ECU. The ECT has 2 speed signal inputs - SP and SP1. SP1 is a black wire with orange stripe and pink hoops. It comes from the ABS ECU which gets it signal from the reed switch style speed sensor with the dark green, light green and red wires. I presume the ABS ECU does something with the signal from the sensor and spits out something down SP1 that the ECT can understand. What signal does the SP1 input need for the ECT to function? SP is a violet wire with white stripe and pink hoops. It comes from the engine ECU (pinout ECO). However I can't find a speed input for the engine ECU. Which wire is this and what signal does it need for the ECU to correctly interpret it? The other speedo style speed sensor has 3 wires coming from it. I'm just wondering where they go? My loom is chopped now and I can't easily trace the wires. I have traced them as far as the fuse box and then into the car but thereafter I am lost. I understand that I only need one of these signals to work for the auto trans to work properly (although I do understand it will spit out codes saying the other sensor has failed). Cheers Dave. PS. Yes, I have posted this on Lextreme forums. [Updated on: Mon, 29 March 2004 10:53] [Report message to a moderator]

THE WITZL
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Wed, 24 March 2004 01:43

i know that typically, the purple/white wire is the speed sensor input for the engine ECU (at least this is how it is for all the 4ag motors, and 3sg motors that i've played with), and this signal is normally a pulse. I know that the 1UZ is pretty crazy with all its wiring and controls, but typically this purple/white wire is just a pulse input to the engine ECU, and in the cases i've had, it usually comes from the instrument cluster, driven by the electronic speedo dial (which gets it signal from the electronic speedo drive). I dont really know if im helping at all now.... Anyway, good luck Dave, one day i'll do this all myself and learn what's going on there.... [Report message to a moderator]

gianttomato
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Wed, 24 March 2004 02:08

argh...so much confusion! That's what I thought about the purple white wire. Do you know if that wire is a 4 pulse per revolution wire? If so then I have a cheat's way to sort this out. I need to find a half dismantled Crown UZS131 halfcut. Quickly. [Report message to a moderator]

THE WITZL
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Wed, 24 March 2004 02:13

on the AE101 and AE92 rollas, yes it is a 4 pulse per revolution thing. Hence some people with 20V's hook up a 2 pulse per revolution with magnets and reed switch (could use hall effect sens of course) to give the ECU a speed signal to obtain full RPM ability and remove the 180kph speed cut. Just what you are thinking i bet! I do remember a black/oragne wire in my travels, but i cannot remmeber what for. Give MOS a call.. its always good to bug him [Report message to a moderator]

KDog
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Wed, 24 March 2004 05:08

Yeah 4 pulses/rev for the sensor going to ECU. The one that goes to the dash is 20 pulses/rev and is then divided down to 4p/r and sent to the ECU. This is the main sensor which is used. If it fails the ECU then uses the sensor which goes straight to it. [Report message to a moderator]

gianttomato
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Wed, 24 March 2004 06:38

That's good news all. I will check on a friend's half cut on the weekend, but failing that, I will plug in an ST141 speed sensor. Thankyou very much. [Report message to a moderator]

Grant
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Wed, 24 March 2004 21:31

There are many different ways in which Toyota notate speed sensors and it can get confusing. I've seen SPD, SP1, SP2, SP20, -S/+S, -SP2/+SP2 all used from time but the basic function is the same: one speed sensor is the primary signal from the speedo and one is the back-up signal either directly from the gearbox or from the ABS unit. The number of revolutions can vary from model to model but most use 4 pulse/rev from the speedo and 1 pulse/rev from the back-up (although Soarers tend to use a modulated signal for back-up). The signal from the speedo is a positive signal i.e. the hall effect sensor in the speedo generates a 0 - +6 (or 12) volt pulse whereas the back-up signal is already a 6 or 12 volt output that is grounded every revolution of the tailshaft. SP1 is usually the primary signal but in your case it is the back-up and SP is the primary. The sensor in the box is actually the ABS sensor which is why SP1 comes from the ABS computer. In cars without ABS, the space occupied by the ABS sensor is fitted with either a simple reed switch or an inductor (for Soarers). To get SP working you will need the dash to work. If you are not planning to run ABS and just want to get the 1UZ changing gears then get yourself a reed sensor from a mid 80's Toyota that does not use ABS. The sensor is about 10mm in diameter and about 25mm long with either single or twin wires. Stick a small magnet onto the tailshaft (I find the uni joint is a good location) and mount the sensor no more than 5mm away. That should get you going. [Updated on: Wed, 24 March 2004 21:32] [Report message to a moderator]

gianttomato
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Wed, 24 March 2004 22:07

Grant = lifesaver. Thankyou very much. Just to clarify I would hook up the reed switch wire to the SP1 wire that would ordinarily come out of the ABS? (I have no plans to run ABS.) Cheers Dave. Sorry if this is really elementary - I'm a Crown driver and this is well beyond the limits of my electronics knowledge. I'm more used to shorting out terminals with coat hangers to get 2Ms running. [Report message to a moderator]

Grant
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Wed, 24 March 2004 22:17

Yep, exactly Dave. Run the wire from the ecu directly to the reed switch. As for the magnet, I find the jaycar ones work best. They are very powerful and small (about 6mm diam). Grant [Report message to a moderator]

gianttomato
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Wed, 24 March 2004 22:22

Fantastic! Exactly what I wanted to hear. You're a legend. Thanks Grant. [Report message to a moderator]

THE WITZL
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Thu, 25 March 2004 00:18

yep.. we call them the "rare earth" magnets. And by golly they are freaken strong. Grant, so this reed sensor is basically just a reed switch? In which case you could use any off the shelf reed switch to obtain the same result (just without the useful casing)? And im assuming of course that you have the reed switch switching 12V to the ECU (using a NO reed). I ask because there are a lot of people with 4A-GE 20V's who want do this when converting into an AE82 or AE92 (carby model) so that they get full RPM ability from the 20V. [Report message to a moderator]

Grant
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Thu, 25 March 2004 02:04

I guess you could use any reed switch but they may not be robust enough to use on the underside of a car. The factor sensor is better if you have the time to hunt for them. All 5MGE auto's had them and also 7MGE auto's that didn't have ABS fitted to the car. The switch needs to be normally open as you suggested and switched to ground. Remember though, these are a back-up sensor and in some cases may not produce as precise shift patterns as the 4 pulse/rev signal from the dash. [Updated on: Thu, 25 March 2004 02:05] [Report message to a moderator]

gianttomato
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Crisis over!	Fri, 26 March 2004 05:52

As it turned out Allan had a stockpile of dead 5MGE and 7MGE autos in his garage. Confirmed they were reed switch style speed sensors. He whipped off the extension housing and removed the speedo drive gear (retained by circlip and little steel ball) and aluminium magnet retainer (kept in place with a little Woodruff key). Brought it around, confirmed the extension housing was almost identical, whipped off the Crown auto extension housing, removed the Crown auto 20 toothed chopper wheel and speedo drive, replaced the chopper wheel with the rotating magnet assembly and whacked it all back together. Spun it over and yep one pulse per revolution. Just what the doctor ordered. Did a quick search on the EPC. All these bits should be readily available at wreckers but should you desire new bits, here are the part numbers. Rotating magnet assembly: 89414-30020 Speed sensor: 89411-22060 or 89411-22061 [Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Fri, 26 March 2004 07:18

i do have these devices that have 4 pulses every revolution u unscrew cable speedo from gbox screw this device in then screw yr cable for the speedo back into the device the device has 12v earth and a pulse wire this way u can send a signal to the ecu and yr speedo cable works at the same time this is only good if yr speedo is cable driven theyre 150 bucks [Report message to a moderator]

Grant
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Sun, 28 March 2004 22:05

Interesting that the 5M/7M rotating magnet interchanged with the 1UZ. I didn't bother suggesting that as I didn't think it would swap over. Don't you just love Toyota engineering! [Report message to a moderator]

gianttomato
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs	Sun, 28 March 2004 22:18

It's a great result! What pleases me the most is that it is a visually appealing, tidy, entirely factory solution. Of course, in doing this I wrecked the extension housing gasket. I have ordered another so when I replace it this arvo, I'll take some pics and post them up. [Report message to a moderator]

gianttomato
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Pics	Mon, 29 March 2004 11:03

Extension housing gasket Rotating magnet assembly. One lobe has a magnet peened into it whilst the other lobe is a counterweight. It fits exactly where the chopper wheel originally went. A pic of the magnet. The multi toothed chopper wheel. Sorry for the crappy pic. Speed sensors. The single wire sensor is the reed switch speed sensor, whilst the 3 wire sensor is what is fitted to the Crown UZS131 A340 gearbox. Finished job. Looks stock as a rock. Even the dark green wire lined up in the plug! I can even use the 1966 Crown speedo cable. Thanks to everyone for their valuable input! [Report message to a moderator]

Allan
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Re: Pics

Mon, 29 March 2004 13:03

gianttomato wrote on Mon, 29 March 2004 21:03

Thanks to everyone for their valuable input!

1 Pulse Per revolution is the preferred input!

[Report message to a moderator]

KDog
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Wed, 28 April 2004 02:18

Shouldn't that be 4 pulses per revolution for 1uzfe ECUs. This is what all the manuals claim. 4pulses/rev for the backup/no1 sensor which goes straight to the ECU and 20pulses/rev for the main/no2 which goes to the dash and then divided by 5 and sent to the ECU. [Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Wed, 28 April 2004 05:03

hey kdog ive been havin issues with my 1uz but sort of know how it all goes on a crown it has like 20 pulses every rev that goes to the speedo then the speedo sends 4 pulses every rev to the engine ecu and the auto ecu speed sensor no2 is different im not to sure on how many pulses but this is 3 wire sensor and it sends the signal to the abs computer the signal then comes out of the abs computer im not to sure in what form as i am goin to try hook up the abs ecu just for this i tried bypassing the abs ecu and runnin the speed sensor no2 straight to the auto ecu but the ecu still brings up a code 61 which is speed sensor no2 hopeffully in afew weeks i can figure it all out [Report message to a moderator]

KDog
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Wed, 28 April 2004 05:13

Yeah I could sort it all out in a flash if I had a half cut to work from. I haven't had one at my disposal for about 4 years so everything I know is from memory or rough notes I took when I setup the bench testing unit for the ECUs. If you wanted to run the auto I would take the signal from the speed sensor that goes to the dash. Remove the 20 pulse wheel and cut it back to only 4 teeth then use this. It should work. [Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Wed, 28 April 2004 05:22

yer my hilux has a digital speedo so i have fitted the 4 pulse sensor that was in factory hilux auto to the 1uz auto gbox the signal goes to the dash then to the ecu everything goes good i just want to fix error code 61 which isnt a prob its just that it makes o/d light flash but its good to learn how everything works in the end hey kdog do u know if this is normal when i am cruising about 60 or 80 i put accel flat to floor it kicks down 1 or 2 gears feels like the timing is retarded for 3 or so seconds of acceleration then u feel the full power come on if i accell say to 80 or 90% and it kicks down its ok doesnt feel like it retards the timing thanks for yr help [Updated on: Wed, 28 April 2004 05:27] [Report message to a moderator]

KDog
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Wed, 28 April 2004 06:11

Yeah it reduces the engine power when going through gear changes to prevent too much shock on the gearbox (wear on clutches). Guess it doesn't consider 80% - 90% to be too much power. Standard for most auto toyotas. [Report message to a moderator]

KDog
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Wed, 28 April 2004 06:14

error code 61 is the No2 speed sensor. I wonder if you put the speed sensor into the other speed input on the ECU if the error code would switch to 42 (the No1 speed sensor error code). If it does and still runs normally then it would be a good indication that the ECU is not receiving the correct number of pulses/rev for the other input. [Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Wed, 28 April 2004 10:49

i tried that i put the 4 pulses into the abs no2 speed sensor stupid thing would not change gears there is afew things maybe conributing to all this i dont know why but i am using the factory hilux speed sensor in gbox and the speedo reads out nothin i have done explains y unless the worm drive on the crown gbox is different gearing/angle than the hilux auto but y would toyota do that so my speedo reads out by about 20kms at 100 so the speed no1 and speed no2 wont read that smae percentage the ecu will read both speeds and see one is out so im goin to fix the speedo to read accurately then see atleast its a good learnin thingy and i will dummy fit the abs ecu and see if that gets rid of fault [Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Wed, 28 April 2004 10:52

another thing is if i erase codes start car dirve for long time i get no errors once i turn car off for abit then restart it i get the error straight away ive been told this is when the car does its routine diagnosis maybe anyway it drives ok but it would be nice to fix all error codes so i can help people for future refence as ive got some 1uz autos to do in comin months wiring up the crown ecus for auto is like wiring 2 and a half ecus [Report message to a moderator]

gianttomato
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs **now with pics**

Wed, 28 April 2004 10:54

sideshow wrote on Wed, 28 April 2004 20:52

wiring up the crown ecus for auto is like wiring 2 and a half ecus

Tell me about it!!! I have gone bald in the last week.

[Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Wed, 28 April 2004 11:13

thats ok im gettin used to them now i didnt like how i wired mine the first time so i spent a whoil esunday rewiring the ecus looks much better now i have pics of the final engine bay at my website [Report message to a moderator]

KDog
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Wed, 28 April 2004 22:17

Yeah I guess the ABS ECU must modify the speed signal before it goes to the ECUs. Maybe it divides it down by some factor. It would be nice to get into a running half cut and measure everything. If you have a standard crown then its not usually a problem you either use the dash or a speed drive with only 4 pulses/rev and ignore the error code for the other speed sensor not being there. Which Speed inputs are yours going to SP or SP1? Gianttomato, Does you car drive OK with only the 1pulse/rev drive in it? Which speed input is this going into SP or SP1. I wonder if anyone in the ACT has one I could look at, might have to do some investigating. [Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Wed, 28 April 2004 22:47

i am goin to buy the crown workshopp manual from japan but with the info i recently found i had speed sensor no2 wiring up incorrectly so im goin to try it today i found what signals the wires for it do and am connecting it up like in the book but bypassing the abs ecu see how it goes this is what i know when i first ran the crown speedo no1 sensor it has 20 pulses thru my speedo then to the crown ecu the gbox went spastic my speedo went to 140 kph due to it having 20 pulses so that made gbox change from 1st straight to hi i fitted 4 pulse speed seonsor no1 that drives dash speedo is ok but maybe 10kmh out but it changes ok for now so i guess could leave it that way it doesnt cause any probs so this is what the auto ecu needs either 4 pulses in to sp1 which comes from dash i have 4 pulses goin into my dash then 4 pulses comes out of dash to ecus or u need speed sensor no2 connected which might be a hassle if u have to run it thru the abs ecu i will do some testing i am runnin speed sensor no2 straight to ecu sp and have bypassed the abs computer i will disconnect sp1 that comes from the dash so that the ecu is relying purely on the abs speed sensor no2 and see if it changes gears if it does then it means the signal is good enough i am runnin sp1 from dash speedo and am tryin to sort out sp2 i will have oportunity to look at a front cut soon but for now all i need is a crown abs ecu [Updated on: Wed, 28 April 2004 22:49] [Report message to a moderator]

KDog
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Thu, 29 April 2004 00:06

The speedo being out is probably because of tyre changes, diff ratios etc. Did the dash have a 4pulse/rev input before? I may have an ABS ecu around, although I probably binned it in one of my cleanups. I'll have a look we may get lucky. Do you have an oscilloscope? I would like to get a hold of a running half cut so I measure everything. Also wouldn't mind having a look at that crown manual. Don't know when i'll be up in Sydney next. If I come up soon i'll might try and organise a meeting with a running half cut so I can measure everything. Cheers [Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Thu, 29 April 2004 07:15

thats the weird thing same tyres/mags same diff and same dash and speedo and im using the speedo sensor from the hilux auto gbox i have a hand held oscilloscope but i need to learn how to use it properly heheh all i need is an abs ecu so i can measure the signal in and out [Report message to a moderator]

E30-323ti
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Fri, 30 April 2004 02:44

while everyone is being so forth coming with this awesome info, can someone answer this: What signal does a MKIV supra W58 put out?? is it the 4 or 20 pulse/rev signal. I need to know so when I pull the BMW diff out and put the supra one in my speedo will no longer work and i'll need to get creative with the speedo signals from the toyota GB to make the BMW speedo work. [Report message to a moderator]

Grega
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Fri, 30 April 2004 06:05

jim i think i know where there is an abs ecu. let me know if you need it pls. [Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Fri, 30 April 2004 11:24

i think theyre 4 pulses per rev i can prob get one not tomorrow but next sat ill see how i go i do want one would like to work out how the damn auto ecu works if i cure this error 61 then i will know everything is fine and i can use it for future reference when wiring up customers cars then i can justify the long hrs and price for wiring up the 1uz with crown auto ecu [Updated on: Fri, 30 April 2004 11:27] [Report message to a moderator]

Grega
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Fri, 30 April 2004 22:53

let me know... [Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Mon, 03 May 2004 07:44

hey grega how much would you want for the abs ecu if u need it i could give it back to u i mainly want to use it for testing as i dont really want to have 3 ecus in my hilux not enough room as it is now [Report message to a moderator]

gianttomato
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Thu, 06 May 2004 06:04

Well Cambelt (Dave) and I had a play on his intact Crown halfcut today. The purple and white wire gave 1 pulse per tailshaft revolution. We couldn't muster any activity from the orange and black wire (the one from the ABS). [Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Thu, 06 May 2004 10:28

well not to sure if that is correct my speedo which is a factory hilux electronic has a 4p on the b back this means 4 pulses every rotatio of the speedo cable this is what sp1 needs make sure yr speedo reads accurate as it affects the auto changing sp2 on the other hand is different it has alot of signals per rev of the output shaft this then gets sent to the abs ecu then to the auto ecu i want to try and figure how to get rid of abs ecu u dont need this sensor to get auto workin correctly but u will have anoyyin o/d light comin up with code 61 [Report message to a moderator]

stevevp
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Thu, 06 May 2004 22:36

I have the opposite problem. As I've used the A341 trans from the half cut, the late crown has four channel ABS and therefore puts out 4p/rev from the transmission using a four tang chopper wheel instead of the 32 tooth abs chopper in the cressida. At present my ABS is disabled but I will be changing over sendors and choppers in the next week or so. The only thing I have to confirm is that the ABS computer does actually divide the signal down to 4p/rev from 32p/rev. The factory manuals are conflicting in that the section covering ABS shows a violet/white wire from pin 15 going back to the engine ECU, but the full wiring diagram at the back shows it going to the speed sensor as an invisible fourth connection on the three pin plug to the sensor (both US and OZ manuals). I'm really hoping Toyota just had a major cut and paste problem when they put this together. Have you tried grinding off the extra teeth on the abs chopper to bring it down to four per rev? This would avoid having to muck around with the ABS ecu if you don't need it. [Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Thu, 06 May 2004 22:44

so u have measured the signal comin in to the crown abs computer and the signal coming out i tried fitting the sp1 to sp2 and the thing would not change gears the manuals for cressida are funy in this section the only way to understand it is to cut open the loom i have afew times and slowly gettin hang of it but i have not time to figure it out properly to get abs to work on cressida after a 1j or 1u conversion but if u can garantee that there is 32 pulses in to abs ecu and only 4 pulses out of the ecu then i can try afew things but the pusles must be diff to sp1 signal because when i put sp1 signal to sp2(signal from abs ) then thing would not change gears anyway its ok now without abs signal but soon i fill do some testing for myself [Report message to a moderator]

stevevp
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Fri, 07 May 2004 03:31

Ok, Here's what I think I know so far about the MX83 SP1 and SP2 are 0-5v pulses on non ABS vehicles ABS equipped SP2 sensor is 32 pulses per rev ~2v-12v and then passed through the ABS ecu to the ECT ECU, I assume at 0-5v I don't have access to a non ABS cressida (as both of ours are grandes) so I'm assuming the inputs of both SP1 and SP2 to the ECT ECU are 4p/rev at 0-5v. Can someone confirm this. I will have some better info over the weekend. [Report message to a moderator]

sideshow
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Fri, 07 May 2004 08:06

well i got some more info my speedo reads accurately now but if i floor it and hold it flat it kicks down and hit redline and stupid gbox wont change gears so im goin to get a device to control the pulses that goto sp1 this way i can control what speed the ecu sees compared to what my speedo sees this way i can bring the revs lower when changin gears instead of changin at 6000 rpm [Report message to a moderator]

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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Sun, 06 March 2005 02:12

Well a little update. 1 pulse per revolution to the violet white wire is a good thing. Car shifts gear, kicks down and drives normally. Thankyou Grant and Allan for the 5MGE auto bits. [Report message to a moderator]

Allan
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Sun, 06 March 2005 02:27

that will be $500,000,000 thanks i have posted you the invoice [Report message to a moderator]

gianttomato
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Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Sun, 06 March 2005 05:33

Cheque is in the mail buddy! [Report message to a moderator]

Allan
Forums Junkie

Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002

Re: Crown 1UZFE ECT speed sensor inputs now with pics	Sun, 06 March 2005 05:47

have you got photos of you placing the cheque in the envlope?? [Report message to a moderator]

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