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Location:
Eastern Suburbs
Registered:
May 2004
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looking for a box to suit.....
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Wed, 26 May 2004 10:37
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How are we all,
This is my first thread on the site and your probably thinking what > vn_calais. But anyway all i'm looking for is some advice on the various types of supra boxes. Over the next few months i'll be getting a VN 5.0L. With the intentions of a rebuild aimed at around 380hp at the fly, I need a box that will hold up. Also with interest in circuit I am looking at joining a club. With this power and the intentions of circuit I have been looking at supra boxes. I am familiar with the fact that I will require a bellhousing and other various modidifications, so basically this thread is all about whether you can give me some info/recommendations on various Supra boxes, W55 etc. Also somewhere where I may be able to purchase one. The kind of info i'm looking for is basically the boxes strength, how much power they are good for etc.
Cheeers 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Wed, 26 May 2004 23:08
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With that sort of power you'd want at least a W58 (Supra 5-speed) or an R154 (Supra Turbo 5-speed). Both are capable of holding a lot of power and torque, but if you're planning to give the car a hard time it will be worth forking out for the R154 in the long run.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Wed, 26 May 2004 23:12
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| Norbie wrote on Thu, 27 May 2004 07:08 |
but if you're planning to give the car a hard time it will be worth forking out for the R154 in the long run.
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I'll 2nd that notion Norbie.
And I'm sure Castlemaine Rodshop will do a complete conversion kit that will take all the hassles and headaches out of doing the conversion.
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Location:
Eastern Suburbs
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Thu, 27 May 2004 13:05
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Thanks for that norbie. I'm not looking at giving it a hard time everywhere I go, however I wil go hard, as you do on the track if the oppurtunity presents itself. On the streets the occasional burst. And to CrUZsida i've already sorted that out with castlemain. They got all the bits there. Whats the difference between a W55 and a W58? Also what models did the following boxes you listed come out of?
Cheers
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Eastern Suburbs
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Thu, 27 May 2004 13:22
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V8_MA61 are you currently runnign the box through an eight. Most likely a stupid question and also are you putting some decent power through it. + And for the following boxes listed in the topic what are the approximate prices for those boxes.
Thanks again.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Eastern Suburbs
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Thu, 27 May 2004 13:41
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V8_MA61: What type of eight are you going to run. In response to you thinking you don't think it will be up to the task is that taking into account your aimed horsepower. Even though it looks like the way to go would be with the R154. See i've got the aim of charging it later on aswell. This will than lead me to around 540hp at the fly, if not more. How would it go than? The charger is not definite though so don't take that to serious.
Thanks again and again.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Thu, 27 May 2004 13:46
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I don't know the tolerances of all the gearboxes but I would say that with 540hp you are going to at least need an R154. If Norbie is chewing through W58's with 400ish hp then I think you know what will happen with 540hp.
I don't even know if the R154 is good for that much power? Anyone know?
Just depends on if you want to spend more money initially and make it last a bit or get a cheaper one and replace them more often.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Thu, 27 May 2004 14:44
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Just to add my little bit here - have you looked at a Tremec conversion, or even a T56? While I wouldn't recommend the T5 to anyone, the other two both seem to be able to take the power, although shift quality is a big negative, especially with the T56. Both are available as conversion kits, too. Another suggestion, on personal experience, avoid Dellows if you can! 
What are you planning on doing to the engine? Blower? Or the heads/cam/Group A manifold style rebuild? Just curious!
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Location:
Eastern Suburbs
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Thu, 27 May 2004 15:44
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I actually gave castlemaine, dellow and malwood auto a call about the tremec and t56. The tremec was $2400 whereabouts and the T56 $5600. Yes they are damn strong, however I can't fork that kinda money out, well am not prepared to. Maybe when I charge it.
Plans for the engine involve machining & balancing, head work, cam, full rebuild with almost standard bottom end. Sticking to the standard block size. The plans are to build a tough strong combination that will give me the figure of around 370hp at the fly for now. The rebuild is also taking in consideration the fact that I want to charge it further on down the track.
And also on charging any more opinions on whether the R154 will be able to handle 540hp.
Thanks again fellas.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Thu, 27 May 2004 22:56
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just a quick point.
alot of toyota owners are forced into using the W58 just for the fact that its the strongest box to fit inside their celica/supra trans tunnels without modification.
the R154 is a little bigger and anyone trying to fit it into anything bar MA70 supra onwards will need to sledge massage or cut the trans tunnel.
in the long run for your application the R154 is the only choice unless u wanna fork out for a V160 6spd getrag (holden uses the V160 in some of their commo's as well).
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Thu, 27 May 2004 22:58
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| rob_RA40 wrote on Fri, 28 May 2004 08:56 |
(holden uses the V160 in some of their commo's as well).
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Uh... are you sure about that?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Thu, 27 May 2004 23:00
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I thought the VN Grp A 6 speed was a Getrag (but whether it's a V160 is another question).
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Thu, 27 May 2004 23:17
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T56 I think? Same horrible piece of crap found in the Corvette etc. Featuring overdrive and "super-mega-overdrive".
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Thu, 27 May 2004 23:18
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....and the VN SS Grp A actually ran a ZF 6 speed.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Thu, 27 May 2004 23:52
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| vn_calais380 wrote on Fri, 28 May 2004 01:14 |
I
And also on charging any more opinions on whether the R154 will be able to handle 540hp.
Thanks again fellas.
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R154 is apparently good for 800Hp, although I've heard the thrust washer is a weak point on them. I've seen an article with an unmodified R154 holding up behind a 600Hp 1jz supra (the diffs break before the gearbox), but never having seen it with my own eyes I can't say if it's true.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Fri, 28 May 2004 00:08
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Thu, 27 May 2004 23:32 |
w58 - $350 - 600 for ma61-ma70/ga70
w58 - $700-900 for jza80
r154 - $1200- 1500
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Import Bitz have a R154 for $1k. Used to be $1400, but obviously had a hard time attracting intrest at that price. Can't comment on their service or anything, as I haven't bought anything from them, although I have eyed off some parts...
Have a look on the Mechanical page
http://www.importbitz.com/
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Eastern Suburbs
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Fri, 28 May 2004 12:41
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Can anyone follow up on Lumpy' post. What power output are these gearboxes able to hold. + With the thrust washer can you buy stronger bits for the boxes and whereabouts.
Cheers
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Fri, 28 May 2004 15:04
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I've spent around $2000 putting a R154 behind a mild 302 Cleveland V8. For the power you want to chase, I'd recommend the Tremec 5 speed without hesitation. While you will spend more up front, you'll also save yourself alot of hassles when you break the weaker boxes.
Clint
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Fri, 28 May 2004 15:42
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You can buy stronger bits for the thrust washer - they use a landcruiser one machined down a bit to fit. Try www.supras.com forums for more info on the high hp R154 boxes.
Not bagging the supra box but the r154 toughness comes at the price of a vauge and slow shift. Have you thought about the 6-speed g/box that some 5lt commodores came with?
Those VN 5lt fuel injected V8's are something special - my brother's boss has one (auto) that looked stock but had a bigger cam and some other work done. Still running the single throttle body it did a best ET of 12.89 down the 1/4. Couldn't get traction though with stock "cop spec" 15 iinch steel rims  .
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Fri, 28 May 2004 23:14
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| lumpy wrote on Sat, 29 May 2004 01:42 |
looked stock but had a bigger cam and some other work done.
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Yeah, "some" work done. Considering a stock VN V8 does mid 16's down the quarter, it was obviously more than "some".
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Sat, 29 May 2004 00:07
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Norbie is 100% accurate about the speed of stock VN's. My Rolla is a wonderful little VN eating machine 
And lets not get into America's fascination with overdrive and super-mega-overdrive too much. Has anyone ever seen the box ratios for the Dodge Viper??? Im estimating top speed around 1000kmh!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, Western Australia
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Sat, 29 May 2004 02:35
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Yeah the cop at Gin Gin wasn't impressed when he booked me for 132 in 110 zone while in sixth gear in a VS SS ute and non compus mentus attitude. Long story, but at the end of the day it was my fault, and probably deservedly so. The car quite happily sat on 160Km/h at 1800 revs in sixth gear (0.5:1 ratio for sixth).
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Sat, 29 May 2004 02:44
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my w58 is currently happily holding up with 190rwkw (over 350bhp), and I certainly dont treat it nicely!
Paul off these forums was cranking out over 400bhp through the w58 gbox... he cracked his diff before the gbox went  (but that's the exception rather than hte rule)
if you're planning on adding f/i in the near future, it's definitly worth putting the r154 in now, as the w58 will not cope with huge power figures.
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Sat, 29 May 2004 06:59
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Ahhh, eating VNs with our Corollas... It does seem to be fun Thing that surprised me most was a couple of weeks ago, keeping even with a supercharged V6 VX.
As for the stupid gearing, Commodores seem to be happy to cruise in 6th at anything above about 160, but no less. Just the thing for a trip to Darwin, I suppose!
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Sat, 29 May 2004 08:14
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A stock VN V8 (165kW) is crap. But it doesn't cost a great deal to make them a whole lot better. I said it looked stock (as in white vn with cop wheels!) but it sure as hell didn't sound stock
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Location:
Eastern Suburbs
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Sat, 29 May 2004 10:21
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There are plenty of options out there. I've looked at the following > The tremec and T56 were the way to go but far to expensive for me. A box I may look at, which would take some luck to find would be the old VN Grp A 5 speed. Does anyone have an answer to the name of these boxes (getrag).
Basically below soughts out what i'm actually planning >>
VN 5.0 with 380hp. With the aims and intentions of circuit work, the box will only get a hard time on the track and the occasional punch of the line. I need a box to suit. The options you've all suggested are the W58, R154.
The plan also takes into account the fact I want to charge it down the track. This may take the numbers to 540hp at the fly. A tremec would be best suited, but could a R154 hold up.
Basically all i'm looking for is a box to suit the 380hp, which seems to be the W58 or if I fork out more the R154. With the R154 I would modify that weak thrust washer. The charger idea is for future plans, for that i'll definately save the bucks for a Tremec, but if the R154 is up to the task thats an option.
On the two power figures and the overall plan what would you do?
Thanks again for all the help fellas.
Cheers
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Sun, 30 May 2004 10:50
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| Jag7799 wrote on Sun, 30 May 2004 10:18 |
Thats a load of crap... the r154 went into my soarer(same trans tunnel as an ma61/ra60 celica) with the tiniest bit of bashing and no cutting what so ever.. all that crap about r154 not fitting waas myth and spread by idiots
Also ive heard stories of r154's handling 700hp completely stock and sometimes even more...
My recommendation is that if you want a decent power figure and want to give it a bit of stick that you go the r154 straight out
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firstly i said the R154 wont go into celica/supra without modification (which is why the w58 is an easier choice). I specifically state bashing with a sledge as one of the options as well as cutting and shutting. You say this is a load of crap yet then go on to admit that your tunnel needed modification? 
secondly: I tell ya what Mr Mechanical Genius hows about u go out to your car right now and go change the clutch with the engine still in the car. Then come back and tell us that u didnt need the extra room to complete this task. You'll find if you go to the effort of a larger trans tunnel it will make your job so much more easier. But hey you just pay the mechanic to do that dont u.
you come onto the toymods chat room, we all had to explain everything to u before during and after you pay a mechanic to do your conversion and then u come on and post something like this.
darling dont bother next time.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: looking for a box to suit.....
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Sun, 30 May 2004 11:23
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it also depends on what type of power you're putting into it...
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