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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:40
 
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 14:49 |
| lumpy wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 11:31 |
I don't why the 7M vs JZ always causes such constant bickering. It doesn't really matter at all....
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im shure your 1jz has covered a lot less then 120,000km aswell
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Actually it had 135,000 km's on the clock when I bought the front cut, and by the time of dyno run had over 150,000 kms. But it was a manual  - which is why I bought it regardless of km's. It was making max power whilst the A/F ratio was below 10:1 with 9 psi - I think most toyota's need a bit of leaning out when on boost.
I put some of Dan's numbers up there just to show what the CT26 and 7m combo is capable of when worked. Something to aim for perhaps??????... That said, he's gone to a GT35/40 and undoubtedly will hit 300 RwKw. A beautiful car indeed 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:40
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| Danners wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:31 |
Allan
How much boost are you running? Mine is set at 0.7 bar. You're right, the SAFC did give me around 16 extra rwkw.
I have a Lexus AFM AND 550cc injectors about to go into my car in a week or so, if anyone's interested I will have the before and after results with the same boost setting availible shortly!
Dan
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I have it set for sustained 12psi currently, you wont get much from the 1uz-fe afm if your SAFC is currently set properly, only the reduced restrcition of the 1uz-fe afm being larger and the new injecters will hopefully have a nice spray pattern.
Log your boost pressure on the dyno on a stock ct-26 you will be most disapointed to watch the boost die in the ass the closer it gets to peek power.
Allan
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Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:40
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| improvedae86 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:29 |
Did anyone read my post ? 
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Dont worry, I read your post Adam 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:44
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| lumpy wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:40 |
Actually it had 135,000 km's on the clock when I bought the front cut, and by the time of dyno run had over 150,000 kms. But it was a manual - which is why I bought it regardless of km's. It was making max power whilst the A/F ratio was below 10:1 with 9 psi - I think most toyota's need a bit of leaning out when on boost.
I put some of Dan's numbers up there just to show what the CT26 and 7m combo is capable of when worked. Something to aim for perhaps??????... That said, he's gone to a GT35/40 and undoubtedly will hit 300 RwKw. A beautiful car indeed
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have you done a comp check on your 1jz would be interested to see that!
I am aiming for about 300rwkw with a hi-flow ct-26 and a few other little things, as i said in my first post half way there!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:45
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:17 |
Norbie did you look at the graphed boost pressure on that NZ supra's dyno sheet??? a stock ct26 is hardly able to keep stock boost presure at peek power, the ammount of heat its puting into the intake charge makes it useless (even on 98ron fuel), the next step is modifications to the engine/turbo to make a decent ammount more power. if you think otherwise please explane i'd love to hear your reasoning.
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I know all about the limits of a stock CT26, but that doesn't change what I'm saying. Your engine should be making more power than it is at that boost level, but boost means SFA if the knock sensors are pulling all the timing out of the engine! Plenty of people have got a lot more power out of a 7M at the same boost level with the same stock turbo, so something else must be amiss.
Your comment that the engine started to ping makes it even more obvious what's going on... in other words, the knock sensors had already retarded the timing as much as possible and it was still detonating. Hmmm, I wonder why it's not making power? 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 05:58
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| Norbie wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:45 |
I know all about the limits of a stock CT26, but that doesn't change what I'm saying. Your engine should be making more power than it is at that boost level, but boost means SFA if the knock sensors are pulling all the timing out of the engine! Plenty of people have got a lot more power out of a 7M at the same boost level with the same stock turbo, so something else must be amiss.
Your comment that the engine started to ping makes it even more obvious what's going on... in other words, the knock sensors had already retarded the timing as much as possible and it was still detonating. Hmmm, I wonder why it's not making power?
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norbie 12psi!!! it PEAKED only at 1.3bar there is NO WAY for a stock ct26 to deliver 1.3bar for any more then a split second, this you should know if you know the limits of a stock ct-26!!
and if you take notice i said it started to ping after 10 mins on the dyno it was starting to suffer from heat soak, the peak of 151.5 kw was done on the 3rd ramping up of the 5 go's they had it did not ping before this and besides the fact....
THE 7M-GTE ECU IGNORES THE KNOCK SENSORS AT WOT
as do most other toyota ecus.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 06:00
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:53 |
how the hell could you get 300rwkw from a hi flow ct26?
Thats about 540BHP!
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you will see hopefully.... this is not a dirty old iron v8 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 06:03
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Norbie , you figured it out  , did you listen to the engine ?
where you there ? since nobody else there figured it out , i heard another problem to , but seems like nobody wants to listen to anyone anyway , 300kw using a ct26 i have seen those turbos struggle on 2 litre motors . High flow , more like redesign , why bother ? loads of other turbos out there .
Danners ,  Shit hot that would really end allot of bullshit .
Hirogen , Thanks mate . You listen so i guess your M project will be much improved 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 06:18
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| improvedae86 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 16:03 |
why bother ? loads of other turbos out there .
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True but the only noticeable difference from my engine bay now till i hopefully make that power will be the intake pipes and intercooler
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 06:24
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| Norbie wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:45 |
| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:17 |
Norbie did you look at the graphed boost pressure on that NZ supra's dyno sheet??? a stock ct26 is hardly able to keep stock boost presure at peek power, the ammount of heat its puting into the intake charge makes it useless (even on 98ron fuel), the next step is modifications to the engine/turbo to make a decent ammount more power. if you think otherwise please explane i'd love to hear your reasoning.
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I know all about the limits of a stock CT26, but that doesn't change what I'm saying. Your engine should be making more power than it is at that boost level, but boost means SFA if the knock sensors are pulling all the timing out of the engine! Plenty of people have got a lot more power out of a 7M at the same boost level with the same stock turbo, so something else must be amiss.
Your comment that the engine started to ping makes it even more obvious what's going on... in other words, the knock sensors had already retarded the timing as much as possible and it was still detonating. Hmmm, I wonder why it's not making power?
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Here here Norbie! thats what i'm trying to say as well. 1 psi on a CT26 usually equates to about 10kW's so i've heard, therefore Allan should be making about the same kW's as my car, but is actually 20 less - something is wrong.
Allan what boost controller are you running? 1.3 bar is pretty high for it to be spiking on and then settling down at 12.5 psi! My S-AFC is connected but isn't actually tuned, well it was tuned when i was running the stock 5psi and is since running incredibly rich again after the boost increase.
Improvedae86: happy to be of service!
Dan
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 06:29
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| Danners wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 16:24 |
Here here Norbie! thats what i'm trying to say as well. 1 psi on a CT26 usually equates to about 10kW's so i've heard, therefore Allan should be making about the same kW's as my car, but is actually 20 less - something is wrong.
Allan what boost controller are you running? 1.3 bar is pretty high for it to be spiking on and then settling down at 12.5 psi! My S-AFC is connected but isn't actually tuned, well it was tuned when i was running the stock 5psi and is since running incredibly rich again after the boost increase.
Improvedae86: happy to be of service!
Dan
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the dyno operators hooked up about 3-4m of hose to the feed on my bleeder valve as you can see in the first few frames of the video.
as for the 20kw less, could be just dyno error, sad auto and as i discovered the other day also the center baring is a bit sad
Allan
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 06:40
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:58 |
THE 7M-GTE ECU IGNORES THE KNOCK SENSORS AT WOT
as do most other toyota ecus.
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WTF are you talking about? When is the engine most likely to ping? That's right, at WOT! What reason would there be to ignore the knock sensors when you need them most?
You're getting confused with the EGO sensor, which gets ignored at WOT (ie the ECU switches to open-loop mode).
This thread just keeps getting better!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 06:51
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the timeing is advanced on CRUISE for better fuel econ'
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 06:55
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 16:51 |
the timeing is advanced on CRUISE for better fuel econ'
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And more boost ? with stock ecu ? Low octane rating fuel
You are shitting us really
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 06:55
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:14 |
| lumpy wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:40 |
Actually it had 135,000 km's on the clock when I bought the front cut, and by the time of dyno run had over 150,000 kms. But it was a manual - which is why I bought it regardless of km's. It was making max power whilst the A/F ratio was below 10:1 with 9 psi - I think most toyota's need a bit of leaning out when on boost.
I put some of Dan's numbers up there just to show what the CT26 and 7m combo is capable of when worked. Something to aim for perhaps??????... That said, he's gone to a GT35/40 and undoubtedly will hit 300 RwKw. A beautiful car indeed
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have you done a comp check on your 1jz would be interested to see that!
I am aiming for about 300rwkw with a hi-flow ct-26 and a few other little things, as i said in my first post half way there!
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I did get it checked but don't remember the figures - sadly I've sold the car now as I got a company car (plus got married and bought a house and have a baby on the way - all the usual stuff!)
Dan was at the limits with 240 rwkw - his ct-26 was extremely worked and couldn't produce any more.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 07:04
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 16:51 |
the timeing is advanced on CRUISE for better fuel econ'
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WTF does that have to do with anything??
My head hurts! 
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Location:
Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 07:38
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| improvedae86 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 10:30 |
If you do not set this before the run , the figure a guess converted by kw
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If it was just a guess based on kw, wouldnt that show punkdefenders 1g with a higher torque figure than allans?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 07:39
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| Norbie wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 17:04 |
| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 16:51 |
the timeing is advanced on CRUISE for better fuel econ'
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WTF does that have to do with anything??
My head hurts!
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and people asked me why i getting my girlfriend , and walking outside . I didn't want to catch a piston . felt sorry for the tt guy hanging around under the bonnet with ear muffs on . Ow well if your think you can hear detonation with ear muffs you deserve it 
I won't let a toyota secret away , but here is a single nissan one .
s13 sr20det , at engine hp stock 205hp ,5-6psi timing 22' advanced
s13 sr20det , at engine hp hks gt series 311hp , 16-18psi timing 12' advanced
Does anyone see a pattern here ?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 07:42
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| gearb0x wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 17:38 |
| improvedae86 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 10:30 |
If you do not set this before the run , the figure a guess converted by kw
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If it was just a guess based on kw, wouldnt that show punkdefenders 1g with a higher torque figure than allans?
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Speed ?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 08:46
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| improvedae86 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 17:39 |
felt sorry for the tt guy hanging around under the bonnet with ear muffs on . Ow well if your think you can hear detonation with ear muffs you deserve it
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Actually with ear muffs on, detonation is clear as a bell.
Run it on Gas Allan, she'll be right mate!
It's been a few years since we've had a good 7M v 1G argument Allan but i'm going to stay out of this one. That dyno graph of mine just keeps showing up
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 08:55
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bring it on again
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 08:55
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Allan - hopefully your new Auto And stuff will improve things , its going to be interesting how it all comes together in the future when the good stuff starts going under the engine bay
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 09:08
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PURE GOLD!
We need a pool room to send this thread to!
Allan - You just keep on digging yourself a deeper hole, whilst all the time not listening to other peoples suggestions.
Now run along and tell all your imaginary chat friends that i typed something about you.
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Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 09:20
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Cold man, very cold.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 09:22
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give it a rest fellas! christ!
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 09:26
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| Hirogen wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 19:20 |
Cold man, very cold.
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ICE cold
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Location:
Australia
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 10:15
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Dan
[/quote]
the dyno operators hooked up about 3-4m of hose to the feed on my bleeder valve as you can see in the first few frames of the video.
as for the 20kw less, could be just dyno error, sad auto and as i discovered the other day also the center baring is a bit sad
Allan
[/quote]
Your numbers are low because its an auto, the best someone I know with a fresh motor and the stock turbo at 16psi could manage was 160 at the wheels this being auto also. Not all dyno numbers are comparable. Realistically I dont see how you can get 300kw at the wheels with a CT-26 not a real 300kw anyhow.
HTH
Dan
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 11:28
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| Classique71 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 18:55 |
Allan - hopefully your new Auto And stuff will improve things , its going to be interesting how it all comes together in the future when the good stuff starts going under the engine bay
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like a 1j?
or as this thread sais, a boosted 1g?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 11:29
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| Jag7799 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 21:28 |
| Classique71 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 18:55 |
Allan - hopefully your new Auto And stuff will improve things , its going to be interesting how it all comes together in the future when the good stuff starts going under the engine bay
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like a 1j?
or as this thread sais, a boosted 1g?
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7m poos on 1j
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Location:
I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 11:48
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 21:29 |
7m poos on 1j
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Robbo ????
is that you?
Naivety must run in the family.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 11:52
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| Special Ed wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 21:48 |
| V8_MA61 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 21:29 |
7m poos on 1j
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Robbo ????
is that you?
Naivety must run in the family.
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yeah, and you are? I see some people must be offended by such small, sarcastic remarks 
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Location:
Melbourne, Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 12:10
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Hooray for the M series! Without which there would be no JZs.
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Location:
I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 12:37
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 21:29 |
7m poos on 1j
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you just reminded me of the one and only true Robbo, the one by whom all V8 ma61 drivers will be tarnished... your "COUSIN".
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Location:
I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 12:42
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 15:29 |
At least my MA70 is roadworthy have a nice day Mr locked diff
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BTW Allan, I dont own a stinky MA70.
But you can be assured my JZA70 is WORTHY. 
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 12:54
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| Norbie wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 17:04 |
| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 16:51 |
the timeing is advanced on CRUISE for better fuel econ'
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WTF does that have to do with anything??
My head hurts!
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Sorry was runing late for work... let me explan for you..
The 7M-GTE ecu advances the timeing until knock is detected then retards X ammount then starts steping up until detected again while in closed loop mode to maintain optimal fuel (o2 sensor input) and spark (knock sensor input) to give the best emmisions and fuel useage
as soon as your under load it ignores the knock sensor and uses the internal spark and fuel map
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Location:
I wanna go Hawaiiiiii.......
Registered:
November 2003
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 12:58
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[quote title=improvedae86 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 16:55]| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 16:51 |
You are shitting us really
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sorry i forced you to read the threed...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 13:06
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| improvedae86 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 17:39 |
and people asked me why i getting my girlfriend , and walking outside . I didn't want to catch a piston . felt sorry for the tt guy hanging around under the bonnet with ear muffs on . Ow well if your think you can hear detonation with ear muffs you deserve it
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I can answer that question for people, your a bit of a dickhead that does not know the difference between a shim that has too much clearance and detonation
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 13:09
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| HKS_TRD wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 20:15 |
Your numbers are low because its an auto, the best someone I know with a fresh motor and the stock turbo at 16psi could manage was 160 at the wheels this being auto also. Not all dyno numbers are comparable. Realistically I dont see how you can get 300kw at the wheels with a CT-26 not a real 300kw anyhow.
HTH
Dan
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not just hi-flowing of the turbo there will be other things done, there are a few guys in the states that have done 300rwkw and more with a hi-flow ct-26 and other modifications.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 13:12
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ok so do i need explan anything else??? let see if you guys can actauly put some technial reason behind your comments rather then spout crap.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 16:34
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Not trying to get in the middle of a shitfight here, but do you mean 300rwkw in the US dyno system or our system because their system reads higher numbers than ours.
300rwkw from a HF ct-26 would certainly be pushing the limits very far though if it could do that at all. As Blake said, that would be flowing about 540hp worth of air!
| Quote: |
not just hi-flowing of the turbo there will be other things done, there are a few guys in the states that have done 300rwkw and more with a hi-flow ct-26 and other modifications.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Wed, 28 July 2004 16:46
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| Chris Davey wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 02:34 |
Not trying to get in the middle of a shitfight here, but do you mean 300rwkw in the US dyno system or our system because their system reads higher numbers than ours.
300rwkw from a HF ct-26 would certainly be pushing the limits very far though if it could do that at all. As Blake said, that would be flowing about 540hp worth of air!
| Quote: |
not just hi-flowing of the turbo there will be other things done, there are a few guys in the states that have done 300rwkw and more with a hi-flow ct-26 and other modifications.
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If the post that mentioned the 300 rwkW was read properly by all, you would have noticed that it mentioned he was going to a GT3540, and hence the jump from 240 to probably 300. The 300 figure was not for the HF CT26.
I'm surprised at this thread and how it has degenerated
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Thu, 29 July 2004 00:17
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| bbaacchhyy wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 02:16 |
[
I'm surprised at this thread and how it has degenerated
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Having been on toymods for ages, and view many 7M vs 1jz and "putting shit on 7Ms" threads - I'm not!!!
The same old contenders, the same old arguments - some things never change.
Allan,
If you haven't already, PM Dan (HKS_TRD) and ask him about his engine. It's pretty worked and still didn't get close to 300rwkw with the CT26. I think the US guys have their hand on it a bit. Maybe with 2 CT26 turbo's
And buy a motec or autronic ECU. It'll be cheaper in the long run...
Cheers,
Caelum
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Thu, 29 July 2004 00:36
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| lumpy wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 10:17 |
| bbaacchhyy wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 02:16 |
[
I'm surprised at this thread and how it has degenerated
|
Having been on toymods for ages, and view many 7M vs 1jz and "putting shit on 7Ms" threads - I'm not!!!
The same old contenders, the same old arguments - some things never change.
Allan,
If you haven't already, PM Dan (HKS_TRD) and ask him about his engine. It's pretty worked and still didn't get close to 300rwkw with the CT26. I think the US guys have their hand on it a bit. Maybe with 2 CT26 turbo's
And buy a motec or autronic ECU. It'll be cheaper in the long run...
Cheers,
Caelum
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i only push it cause people are so petty and get so cut about it...
as for the guy who posted earlier about without 7m's thered be no 1j's: without a failure, there cant be a breakthrough
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Thu, 29 July 2004 00:48
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 22:54 |
The 7M-GTE ecu advances the timeing until knock is detected then retards X ammount then starts steping up until detected again while in closed loop mode to maintain optimal fuel (o2 sensor input) and spark (knock sensor input) to give the best emmisions and fuel useage
as soon as your under load it ignores the knock sensor and uses the internal spark and fuel map
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The 7M would have to be the only engine in the world which doesn't use its knock sensor at WOT. You still haven't told us why Toyota's engineers would choose to do this when it flies in the face of reason?
Here's some interesting documents I found:
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h23.pdf
http://www.autoshop101.com/forms/h24.pdf
This explains the operation of Toyota's ECU detonation control, and I can't see anything there to support what you're saying. Take this quote for example:
| Quote: |
To provide for optimum spark advance under a wide variety of engine operating conditions, a spark advance map is developed and stored in a look up table in the ECU. This map provides for accurate spark timing during any combination of engine speed, load, coolant temperature and throttle position while using feedback from a knock sensor to adjust for variations in fuel octane.
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Hmmm, do we know anyone who was using shitty octane fuel in their 7M? Let me think...
More interesting info:
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Initial timing + basic advance angle + corrective advance angle = total spark advance.
Basic advance angle is computed using signals from crankshaft angle (G1), crankshaft speed (Ne), and engine load (Vs or PIM) sensors. Corrective timing factors include adjustments for coolant temperature (THW) and presence of detonation (KNK).
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Hmmm no mention of disabling anything at WOT? But then again maybe you know something Toyota doesn't. I'd love to see documented evidence of your strange theory.
[Updated on: Thu, 29 July 2004 00:49]
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Thu, 29 July 2004 02:53
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get off the guys back for ***'s sake and get on with life ..
This thread reminds me of secondary school again - F-wits playing mines better than yours ..
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Thu, 29 July 2004 03:00
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Thu, 29 July 2004 03:38
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 23:06 |
| improvedae86 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 17:39 |
and people asked me why i getting my girlfriend , and walking outside . I didn't want to catch a piston . felt sorry for the tt guy hanging around under the bonnet with ear muffs on . Ow well if your think you can hear detonation with ear muffs you deserve it
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I can answer that question for people, your a bit of a dickhead that does not know the difference between a shim that has too much clearance and detonation
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Norbie , thanks for research the ecu operation , i have never heard such crap about a operation of a toyota ecu , or for that fact any factory ecu .
Shim what shim ? i would prefer to hear detonation with Dynamics noise ears especially designed for the task , or with just fingers my ears , or with ionization testing with a mechanical engineer to interpret the data . How much time do you spend around a dyno ? I am not even i that auto trade now , but still spend on average a night a week in a dyno room with various cars.
If i am such "dickhead" why does my internally stock , stock ecu'ed sr20 have more power than your 3 litre turbo , with your modifications ?
I was once told by a unnameless person who has answered in this thread that your knew a lot about the 7mgte's , that you where the god of 7m info , very overrated indeed .
EDIT : nope not overrated , just incorrect
[Updated on: Thu, 29 July 2004 04:03]
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Location:
Australia
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Thu, 29 July 2004 09:48
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| Allan wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 22:39 |
| HKS_TRD wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 20:15 |
Your numbers are low because its an auto, the best someone I know with a fresh motor and the stock turbo at 16psi could manage was 160 at the wheels this being auto also. Not all dyno numbers are comparable. Realistically I dont see how you can get 300kw at the wheels with a CT-26 not a real 300kw anyhow.
HTH
Dan
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not just hi-flowing of the turbo there will be other things done, there are a few guys in the states that have done 300rwkw and more with a hi-flow ct-26 and other modifications.
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The US guys dyno on Dynojets that read atleast 15% higher than a Dyno Dynamics dyno, and even then they get wide fluctuations in power figures, I have been in debates with them over power figures and how they compare between their dyno and what we use here. To give you an idea someone supposedly made around 250kw at the wheels through an auto on a standard CT-26 and held 17 psi to redline, so you can see comparing that figure to yours what I mean about the discrepancies. I questioned this and inadvertantly caused a big stir. I will concede that if you put a 7M with hi flow CT-26 and all supporting mods on the same dyno which the HPI soarer made 270KW at the wheels on (with standard turbos and injectors) you most likely will make 300kw at the wheels however.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Thu, 29 July 2004 10:10
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HKS_TRD
thanks for a good dose of rational explaination
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Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Thu, 29 July 2004 10:17
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V8_MA61 wrote on Wed, 28 July 2004 23:22
[/quote |
im just over people putting shit on the 7ms...if they didnt have the notorius HG woes, and other small issues, they would be no lesser engine than a jz series. Jz series has a mhg...whos to say if we put a copper gasket on it wouldnt blow?
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I think you speak for every 7M owner there... I hate it as well, when i first bought the car i knew nothing about the engine except for the fact that it was a "better" engine than the less torquey 1G-GTE. On this knowledge i purchased my MZ20. After 1 remedied BHG i'm very happy with my cars performance - still a lot more power to be harnessed with some well documented mods!
/end whinge
Dan
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Thu, 29 July 2004 11:17
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| Jag7799 wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 10:36 |
| lumpy wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 10:17 |
| bbaacchhyy wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 02:16 |
[
I'm surprised at this thread and how it has degenerated
|
Having been on toymods for ages, and view many 7M vs 1jz and "putting shit on 7Ms" threads - I'm not!!!
The same old contenders, the same old arguments - some things never change.
Allan,
If you haven't already, PM Dan (HKS_TRD) and ask him about his engine. It's pretty worked and still didn't get close to 300rwkw with the CT26. I think the US guys have their hand on it a bit. Maybe with 2 CT26 turbo's
And buy a motec or autronic ECU. It'll be cheaper in the long run...
Cheers,
Caelum
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i only push it cause people are so petty and get so cut about it...
as for the guy who posted earlier about without 7m's thered be no 1j's: without a failure, there cant be a breakthrough
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The thing is, they werent a failure. HEad gasket problems. Whoa and what do you know when you put a MHG on a 7m?? it doesnt blow! toyotas solve-a-bhg-problem Now lets try a copper head gasket on a 1jz and see how long it lasts?!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Thu, 29 July 2004 11:24
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| V8_MA61 wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 21:17 |
| Jag7799 wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 10:36 |
| lumpy wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 10:17 |
| bbaacchhyy wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 02:16 |
[
I'm surprised at this thread and how it has degenerated
|
Having been on toymods for ages, and view many 7M vs 1jz and "putting shit on 7Ms" threads - I'm not!!!
The same old contenders, the same old arguments - some things never change.
Allan,
If you haven't already, PM Dan (HKS_TRD) and ask him about his engine. It's pretty worked and still didn't get close to 300rwkw with the CT26. I think the US guys have their hand on it a bit. Maybe with 2 CT26 turbo's
And buy a motec or autronic ECU. It'll be cheaper in the long run...
Cheers,
Caelum
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i only push it cause people are so petty and get so cut about it...
as for the guy who posted earlier about without 7m's thered be no 1j's: without a failure, there cant be a breakthrough
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The thing is, they werent a failure. HEad gasket problems. Whoa and what do you know when you put a MHG on a 7m?? it doesnt blow! toyotas solve-a-bhg-problem Now lets try a copper head gasket on a 1jz and see how long it lasts?!
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i think 7m's are great.. i was just shit stirring lol
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Thu, 29 July 2004 11:56
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Hi Allan
Being a bit of a closet 7M fan, I thought I might take a different approach and offer a few suggestions in a vaguely constructive manner.
1. Run good fuel. Otherwise you will blow a headgasket, spin some bearings, or crack a piston... all the while making limited power and probably making horrible rattling sounds too. Then you will add to the 7M's poor name and prove the naysayers right, when really the 7M is a great motor when set up right. No excuse is a good one - plan your journey. I know just about every petrol station in the general Brisbane area that sells better quality fuel... and I refuse to go anywhere else. Even in my 4M-powered daily driver I used to run at least a 95 octane premium and often the 98 octane stuff when I happened to stop at a servo that sold it. There have been one or two occasions when I've been desparate for fuel and put in a few dollars worth to get me to the next servo - in which case I will only put in a few dollars of good fuel, run it back down to empty again without flooring it once, and then fill it from there.
Motors get a bad name from factory weaknesses, malplanned or poorly executed modifications, poor maintenance, and well-meaning but misinformed owners. Unfortunately your car appears to suffer from most of these and would probably perform a lot better in near-standard trim.
2. Before modifying a car, get it into tip-top condition and as close to original as possible, and establish a baseline. This way, you can track down any problems that may exist, and then work from there.
3. Run colder spark plugs if you are not already doing so. This is particularly important on engines running high boost, engines prone to detonation, or if for some ridiculous reason the owner insists on running 91 octane fuel.
4. The torque figures you are quoting are TRACTIVE EFFORT and are not an actual reflection of the motor's torque output.
The original 7MGTE in my auto MA71 had what we estimate to be 270,000-300,000kms on it. I ran 13.71 @ 100.8mph at Willowbank with the following modifications:
* second hand bleed valve, set to ~11psi: $25
* 3" mild steel exhaust: $930
So, for $955 I knocked almost two seconds off my quarter mile time (mid 15's when the car was standard - this was my baseline).
After this motor, in astoundingly poor condition when we pulled it down, I fitted a "low km" import 7MGTE. I then fitted up the same exhaust, the same bleed valve, and at the same time a $107 K&N pod filter which I had fitted to the old motor after I ran the car at the drags. I fitted a manual box not long after, and then took it to the drags again.
The manual box afforded slightly less traction, but I still ran a 13.71, this time at 103.7mph. This obviously gives a hint that this motor was healthier and that the manual box took a little less out of it in the top end.
At no time did I have a fuel cut defender or ever run more boost than the factory management setup would allow.
I know your ego will take a bashing, but return the thing as close to stock as you can... give it a good service with colder plugs, run some real fuel through it, and stick her on the dyno.
I'm not really into dynos, but as this is your thing, establish a baseline this way. I can all but guarantee that you'll make almost exactly the same power as you are now. How do I know? Because a mate's Supra went on the dyno, with a mottled press-bent cat-back exhaust, an auto and 11psi.. and made 207rwhp. That, in kiddie language, is 153.33rwkW and near enough to spot on the figure you are making.
From there, plan some modifications.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MA70: 1UZ-FE afm / stock injectors dyno vid
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Fri, 30 July 2004 13:10
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ahhh well this is supprising a *JZ owner replying and not being a tosser, lovely
| 7M-Brisbane wrote on Thu, 29 July 2004 21:56 |
Hi Allan
Being a bit of a closet 7M fan, I thought I might take a different approach and offer a few suggestions in a vaguely constructive manner.
Motors get a bad name from factory weaknesses, malplanned or poorly executed modifications, poor maintenance, and well-meaning but misinformed owners. Unfortunately your car appears to suffer from most of these and would probably perform a lot better in near-standard trim.
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Reallly??? well in standard form it made 129rwkw when i took it upto the toymods dyno day.
runing pig rich mixtures almost choked the dyno op up there
and the only thing that has not been serviced in this car is the auto trans as i have been waiting to fix a few oil leaks, other then that it has new lead's, plugs, filters/oil at every 5000km.
as for the rest of the car im doing things the RIGHT WAY it has basicly all new suspension (shocks, bushes, wheel barings ect ect (I.E. I dont thrash my supra while it sounds like the back wheel is going to fall off not refering to 7m-brizzy here) diff, rack ect ect. bosch motorsport fuel pump... thermo fans over $4k of recepts of parts so far, your more then welcome if your ever in melb to try and point out any of my workmanship that is sub-standard on any part I have replaced.
| Quote: |
* second hand bleed valve, set to ~11psi: $25
* 3" mild steel exhaust: $930
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you should of got a welder! my compleate stainless system only set me back $400ish and a weekend
| Quote: |
I know your ego will take a bashing, but return the thing as close to stock as you can... give it a good service with colder plugs, run some real fuel through it, and stick her on the dyno.
I'm not really into dynos, but as this is your thing, establish a baseline this way. I can all but guarantee that you'll make almost exactly the same power as you are now. How do I know? Because a mate's Supra went on the dyno, with a mottled press-bent cat-back exhaust, an auto and 11psi.. and made 207rwhp. That, in kiddie language, is 153.33rwkW and near enough to spot on the figure you are making.
From there, plan some modifications.
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THE ONLY "PERFOMANCE ENHANCING" THINGS ON IT IS 1UZ-AFM, AFPR AND BLEEDER
how much closer to stock do you want it??? look at the boost gauge video and see how much boost im runing! the thing only pinged MINORLY after 10 mins on the dyno and well and truely heat soaked, to make a decent ammount more power you need to do something serious with the intake air temps rather then bitch about 7 RON points
ANYWAY I plan to bring back this threed when i have a nice dyno print out of the 7m once i have done a couple of things (while retaining a CT26) to it and time slip to match
[Updated on: Fri, 30 July 2004 13:13]
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