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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Mon, 06 September 2004 11:03
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Hey id like to know what type of fuel you guys with 2TGs are running, which you would prefer and why.. i had about a quarter of a tank of LRP when i swaped from 2T to 2TG and ran it on that, it was good, but once fully drained i had filled it up with unleaded (im running with the latest 2TG head) and it went much better, definetly noticable, although i havnt tried anything like optimax or using stuff like octane booster or anything like that yet, but if you have used it, id like to know if you guys have noticed any differences in performance/efficiency, pros/cons?
cheers.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Mon, 06 September 2004 11:54
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High-octane unleaded fuel is the way to go with these engines. Keep well clear of that horrible LRP stuff; the 2T-G was designed for use with unleaded fuel so it's not necessary.
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Mon, 06 September 2004 12:03
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Hi,
I run Optimax (Shell) and the top-range fuel from BP (I forget what it's called - Ultimate or something like that) in my 18RG.
Both fuels go great. Some people have noticed a difference between the two, but I can't tell. Maybe if I fanged its arse off then I'd notice a diff - but for normal driving, I can't fault either of these fuels.
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Mon, 06 September 2004 14:16
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With my standard 2T-G, there was no difference between unleaded, and unleaded premium. And there will rarely be any difference if your 2T-G is mostly standard. Mine had 8.8:1 pistons.
I now have a 3T bottom end, and about 10.4:1 compression (something like that). And I like my motor so I use premium. And I go to 8000rpm sometimes so I use premium just to make sure it doesn't lean out too much and damage itself. I'm not sure how much difference it makes, especialy as I have 305 cams = low dynamic compression. (Still have 150psi).
So I guess if you run more than 10:1 compression, use premium, otherwise save some money and use regular unleaded. ???
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Location:
melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Mon, 06 September 2004 21:41
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when i had my 2TG i only ran either optimax, bp ultimate or mobil 8000. this was with 10:1 comp however.
the few times i was forced to run standard unleaded and it ran like shit.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 01:22
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My 2TG has a 3T crank, head work, im pretty sure i has bigger cams and raised compression, because it is pretty lumpy at idle and when i go passed 3grand it just takes off, and exhaust gases come out real hard out the back and all cylinders are firing so it has good compression.. i will need to chase up a compression tester to be able to tell exactly, i havnt taken my engine passed 6800rpm yet and i dont think ill be making anymore power passed that, so my 2tg is definetly not standard.
i might try optimax next time i go fill up.
cheers for the replys 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 03:00
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Use Mobil Synergy 8000 - The best around! Datrally did dyno runs with Synergy, Optimax and Ultimate. Synergy made the most power!
I have a 2TG with 11:1 Compression, 3T bottom end, Bored etc making 98.8 kw @wheels and it runs very well on Synergy. However depends on the extent of modifications. If mildly modded it would run fine on any of the above or even plain unleaded.
Playing around with Jet sizing might help it to run better on the 98 Octane unleaded's.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 03:02
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Not a 2T-G, but on my 21R-C I've wound a heap more timing into it, and run it on Ultimate 98. More power, more response and better fuel economy Being a carby engine, it isn't going to magically make power if you don't change anything.
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Location:
Western Victoria
Registered:
September 2004
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 05:27
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| RT104GT wrote on Tue, 07 September 2004 14:39 |
2TG's came out with twin Solex or the quaint EFI system but in the days of SUPER FUEL.
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Nonsense, the lot of it. 
Sure we had leaded fuel in Australia in those days, but in Japan (where these engines actually came from) they had already switched to unleaded fuel. All 2T-G's (and 18R-G's for that matter) have hardened valve seats and do not require leaded fuel or "upper cylinder lubricant". What you DO need though is a fuel with sufficiently high octane, ie premium unleaded. Sure the engine may detonate on regular unleaded, but that's only because it's low octane (91 RON), it has nothing to do with the absence of lead. Run it on Optimax or similar and all will be well.
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Location:
Western Victoria
Registered:
September 2004
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Location:
Western Victoria
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 06:36
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18RG specs Toyota Motor Export Technical Department handbook 1975... 18RG compression pressures 185 psi c.f. 18RC 170 psi, Plugs BP5EZ C.F. 18rc BPR6ez, Dwell angle 50-54 degrees, Points gap 0.5mm Plug Gap 1.0 MM, Fuel Premium grade only 98 octane. CF 18RC 87 octane. Car is featured in centre spread Modern Motor Vol 21 no 1 June 1974. Also talks about super fuel seemed lacking on the road tests and talks off the preignition which Toyota could not tune out. 
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Location:
Western Victoria
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 06:48
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From Japanese handbook 2T 8.5:1 BP6ES 2TG 9.1 BP5ES 16R 8.5:1 BP6ES 18RE 9.1:1 BP6ES (This would be the ULP engine with EFI and Computer) Australia never had 18RE's only 18RC;s with airpumps 8.5:1: 18RG 9.7:1 BP5ES 18RGEU EFI 8.5:1 BP6ES again ULP model. The 18RG carburetted engine in my opinion was never designed to run on other than Premium fuel. The 2TG maybe if EFI but doubtful if Solex carby model. The only reason 9.1:1 ratio engines don't ping is due to electronic management systems, agree?
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 07:09
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Hi,
In 1974 there were more than 2 18RG/2TG engined vehicles in Oz.
The RA25 GT2000, TA22 GT1600 and Corolla Levine 2TG were imported and used by AMI for testing in late 1973. These vehicles were not imported for the masses due to insurance category etc - but they were in the country at the time.
I can't speak for the TA22 or Levine, but the RA25 is running an early 210 head 18RG with 9.7-1 compression ratio. It ran okay on SUPER fuel back then. It also ran, but not happily on the early unleaded. It did not like the lead replacement petrol. However, it runs the best ever on Optimax or Ultimate PULP fuel.
I've been running it on PULP (Optimax or Ultimate) since these products came out and there is no issue with the valves or anything else. The engine was checked and retuned, by none other than Frank Kleinig himself last month, and the motor is perfect. These engines have the hardened seat vales and run ULP without nary a problem what so ever. Franks recommendation - run Optimax or Ultimate PULP 'cos the engine is designed to run this and it gives the best performance and no wuckas about ruining the head.
In regards to Yamaha heads.... I am under the impression that all the heads of the early 18RG and 2TG were done (for Toyota) by Yamaha. There is no such thing as a "Yamaha" head, as opposed to a Toyota head in these early engines. They're all Yammies! Dunno about the heads of the later EFI models of these engines. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 07:16
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In regards to Yamaha heads.... I am under the impression that all the heads of the early 18RG and 2TG were done (for Toyota) by Yamaha. There is no such thing as a "Yamaha" head, as opposed to a Toyota head in these early engines. They're all Yammies! Dunno about the heads of the later EFI models of these engines. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
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The story amongst enthusiasts is that the heads were all developed with design input by Yamaha; the later heads had a Yamaha badge in the casting. Hence, at Noble Park McDonalds on a Tuesday night, there is cred factor for having the later 'Yamaha' head, when in fact, they all were 'Yamaha' heads.
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 07:22
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Hi,
| RT104GT wrote on Tue, 07 September 2004 16:48 |
The only reason 9.1:1 ratio engines don't ping is due to electronic management systems, agree?
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Nope. I don't agree. Since Kleinig rebuilt the carbs and retuned the engine there is no pinging. It used to ping badly, but then again the carbs hadn't been touched for 25 years and were in a sad state. It used to ping badly under load - even light load.
Now, however, it doesn't ping at all. Maybe it would if I floored it in 3rd gear at 10kph - but I don't do that sort of thing. Not good to labour the engine like this.
And, I'm talking about 9.7 compression on this engine. It may ping on normal ULP (I don't put standard ULP int the tank) - but it runs great on Optimax and Ultimate. No EFI on this old lady, just the sweet rushing sound of sucking carbs. And, what a wonderful sound it is!
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 09:21
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| RT104GT wrote on Tue, 07 September 2004 16:25 |
Actually Norbie I challenge the notion that just because there was ULP in Japan that the engines ran on it. My engine handbook says premium fuel only and the nozel hole in the car is not narrowed like unleaded.
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Premium fuel only - why do you assume that means leaded fuel?
None of this matters though; what does matter is ALL 18R-G and 2T-G cylinder heads have hardened valve seats, which means they do not require lead in the fuel and will run quite happily on unleaded fuel provided it has a sufficient octane rating. For earlier engines that might mean 100 RON or so, which of course has never been available in this country, but that's another matter.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 10:25
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Ok, so optimax seems the go here, yes yamaha had implimented the design in all of the heads, its just that the later versions had the name stamped on the front and known for having missing head numbers etc etc..
ok the 2TG was developed in the 70s yes? it is a performance engine for its time so, i dont think toyota would have givin/recommended it shit fuel to run on, so if someone can find out what type of fuel was out in japan in those days then that will be the answer to this discussion, but seeing my head is the latest 2TG head being 88262 (2tgeu), unleaded will be fine, its just a matter of your personal choice i think...
Also correct me if im wrong here, but isnt LRP the replacement for leaded?? i think it was in this order in fuel name changes during the years SUPER,LEADED then LRP??
thanks guys.
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 10:27
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From memory, the highest compression ratio any of these engines came with was a 18R-G with 9.7:1 pistons. My friend has this same motor and it runs happily on regular unleaded fuel, 91 octane I think, (we don't get optimax in Tasmania). He also has a points distributor, old Solex carbs with standard size jets, and it runs well. (no real tuning was done)
My 2T-G with 8.8:1 pistons also ran fine on cheap unleaded. (Premium made no difference).
Alot of new cars in Australia have engines at toward 10:1 compression, and are tuned to run on cheap 91 unleaded.
Other good engines, such as 2ZZ-GE have higher 11.5:1 compression, but can still run on premium unleaded 97.
The 2T-G and 18R-G are not realy special in this regard. A engine is a engine.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 10:36
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yes a 2ZZ-GE is pretty extreme for a stock motor? that in my ta22 would fly, im thinking about doing the swap myself.. but thats besides the topic..
and yes im running regular solex carbs, im gonna be getting some 18RG carbies soon to replace my crap ones i have on now..
so there isnt anything special about it so its all about trying out and finding out.. optimax n the like..
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 10:38
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LRP is not the new name for leaded petrol. Its a different product! Lead REPLACEMENT petrol.
1977 was a big year in Japan and alot of emission rules were put into place. I had assumed this is when they had unleaded fuel avaliable from. Sort of like how 1986 was the big turning point in Australia.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 12:58
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It's worth remembering that most high-performance Jap engines were tuned for their high-octane fuel, so it makes sense to run the engine on the highest octane fuel available here. And guess what, that LRP crap is 3 points lower than Optimax et al!
Jonny makes a good point as well; there is no such thing as leaded petrol any more (well not for automotive use anyway) so why is it even an issue? You can either run unleaded fuel with no lead in it, or LRP fuel with no lead in it. 
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Location:
Tasmania
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Preferred Fuel used on 2TG
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Tue, 07 September 2004 13:22
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Another small point, the 2T-G engine was offered in two versions in some years. 2T-G, and 2T-GR. The R ment Regular fuel. The difference was in compression ratio mainly. In about 1975 I think it was 8.8:1 for 2T-G, and 8.4:1 for 2T-GR. Something like that. And I gather the "regular" fuel was something crap that we don't have anymore. The 2T-GR was probably offered for export to counties where good fuel was harder to get.
I know the TE47 Trueno GT (2T-G) was sold outside Japan in both left and right hand drive.
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