Toymods Car Club
www.toymods.org.au
F.A.Q. F.A.Q.    Register Register    Login Login    Home Home
Members Members    Search Search
Toymods » Tech & Conversions » 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-)

Show: Today's Posts  :: Show Polls 
Email to friend 
Switch to threaded view of this topic Create a new topic Submit Reply
AuthorTopic
HyDrA
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 01:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Probably pushing it to have 280mm discs and bigger calipers...

One stupid solution would be spacers, but they're something i'd rather avoid Razz
  Send a private message to this user    
justcallmefrank
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 01:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Never know, The Corollas in the ARC manage to just get away with 300mm (cut down from 315mm) rotors under 15" wheels. If you also compare that to the 326mm rotors and calipers Michael has in a rim only 1" bigger, there may be hope. Obviously every rim and mounting way will be different, but anything is possible Smile
  Send a private message to this user    
joorsh
Forums Junkie


Registered:
June 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 02:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Is there a tech article written up for the MA61 5-stud conversion/brake upgrade? If there isn't, there is probably enough info here to start one!

-J-
  Send a private message to this user    
justcallmefrank
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 02:12 Go to previous messageGo to next message
This thread is about as good as it gets. There is no tech-article persay, because currently there are a good 3-4 different methods of achieving it going around.
  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 03:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
i plan on getting all of this together (the 3 different approaches etc) and making a single - concise - article. im really just waiting for everyone to finish. micheals probably leading the charge at the moment for front and back. my backs are probably 4 weeks away, dont want to talk about the fronts. im yet to hear exactly where norbie is in all of this Confused
  Send a private message to this user    
justcallmefrank
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 03:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Make that 4. I know you guys didn't wholly approve of it, but I'm going to attempt the one where the hub is machined down and the rotor is mounted over the hub with a collar and longer studs. I've already spoken to my engineer and he is happy for me to go ahead with it.

Initially I'm keen to try the R32/300ZX calipers and the 280x30mm discs, but in theory anything I come up with can easily be changed to either the complete R33 setup or GTR setup due to the Nissan interchangability.

[Updated on: Mon, 06 September 2004 03:20]

  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 03:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
theres 1000 ways to skin a cat, as long as it works, and can be done with parts available to you, it really doesnt matter how you go about doing it Smile

just watch the offset difference between the front and back given youre effectively running a decent sized spacer up the front now
  Send a private message to this user    
justcallmefrank
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 03:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yep, it's 8mm, but the front is where I've come across the most problems with offset using larger offset rims. Should be interesting...now, when am I gonna get the damn car back so I have something to test on Razz
  Send a private message to this user    
Norbie
Forums Junkie


Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 04:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ed_ma61 wrote on Mon, 06 September 2004 13:15

im yet to hear exactly where norbie is in all of this Confused

I've got almost all the parts I need to go ahead with my front brake conversion: MX83 struts, R33 calipers, and new BA rotors. So I'm basically ready to go, but the last couple of months I've been kept busy getting my new Supra on the road; as soon as that's done (hopefully in a couple of weeks) I can get serious about the brake conversion again. Smile The final piece of the puzzle is the locator ring for the rotors, but that should be easy enough to sort out.

Joorsh, if you haven't seen this already, I wrote the beginnings of a writeup on my planned conversion a few months ago:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~norbee/StrutUpgrad e/default.htm

[Updated on: Mon, 06 September 2004 04:05]

  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 10:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
random photos of further over-use of the tin of bright yellow rust gaurd paint left over from the engine block Rolling Eyes

http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=getfile&id=6451&rid=92&S=9cedaddd10e823383283f778b39fa99c

http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=getfile&id=6452&rid=92&S=9cedaddd10e823383283f778b39fa99c
  Send a private message to this user    
Norbie
Forums Junkie


Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 11:45 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Riceboy. Razz
  Send a private message to this user    
justcallmefrank
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 11:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rice yes...but strangely appealing.
  Send a private message to this user    
Norbie
Forums Junkie


Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 11:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
You think so? I'd never even seen my diff cradle until I did my diff conversion... I don't do diff conversions very often so making it look pretty hasn't really crossed my mind. Still, to each his own I guess!
  Send a private message to this user    
justcallmefrank
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 12:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
It's different when it's out and you have spare paint...which is both true in my case Razz
  Send a private message to this user    
joorsh
Forums Junkie


Registered:
June 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
If someone could put all of this togehter in a "less rambling" form that would be awesome Smile

-J-
  Send a private message to this user    
justcallmefrank
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 13:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Haha, you'll just have to wait until all of the conversions come to fruition. None of them are fully completed.
  Send a private message to this user    
Norbie
Forums Junkie


Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 13:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Less rambling?? This is an internet forum, rambling is what it's all about! Razz
  Send a private message to this user    
V8_MA61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 13:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ed_ma61 wrote on Mon, 06 September 2004 20:23

random photos of further over-use of the tin of bright yellow rust gaurd paint left over from the engine block Rolling Eyes

http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=getfile&id=6451&rid=92&S=9cedaddd10e823383283f778b39fa99c

http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=getfile&id=6452&rid=92&S=9cedaddd10e823383283f778b39fa99c



Dw ed, you're not alone..ill no doubt paint my new diff centre and rear cradle when it all goes back in Smile The g series is a rusty-orange look about it. One that wasnt caused by a spray can Laughing
  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 14:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yeah, a bit ricey, but meh! itll all bolt in and noone wll ever see it. pointless? perhaps... but the fun of rebuilding the whole cross member and rear end, and knowing its clean, painted and rust free is rewarding Smile

cheers
ed
  Send a private message to this user    
justcallmefrank
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 14:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Dammit, don't justify it, cos mine is out, and yet to receive a diff, and I can see me doing it...just cos! Smile
  Send a private message to this user    
V8_MA61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ed_ma61 wrote on Tue, 07 September 2004 00:01

yeah, a bit ricey, but meh! itll all bolt in and noone wll ever see it. pointless? perhaps... but the fun of rebuilding the whole cross member and rear end, and knowing its clean, painted and rust free is rewarding Smile

cheers
ed



what do you call my motor? Light green - not ricey..is there a word for bogan...boganey?

My diff will look ricey tho..and its toyota Wink

Did you paint your box ed? im seriously considering it for the r154, but have fucked myself up on a colour...what goes well with light green Wink

Slightly off topic of thread i might add Razz
  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 06 September 2004 22:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
justcallmefrank wrote on Mon, 06 September 2004 11:16

It'll be interesting to see if 280mm discs would be able to fit under them. When I change to 5-stud and go bigger brakes I'm keen to try it out over the 15's I currently have on there.


I reckon it would be a tight squeeze, but there is one way to find out. 15" 3 piece will probably be OK (as per my setup), but I reckon 15" cast ones might be OK as the Nissans run 16" and there is still a bit of room.

Update :

Shit, I didn't see the nice paint job that Ed did. Sweet. Wanna do mine ?

JCMF. The more way's that the conversion is done, the better, as it gives everyone diifferent choices. Mine is definitely the hardest route, but the biggest up front.

Now what to do with the HSV 336mm fronts and 315 rears .....

Ed, when you are ready to do the page on the web, I have all of the part numbers for studs, caliper kits, pads , discs etc.

Oooroo

[Updated on: Mon, 06 September 2004 22:55]

  Send a private message to this user    
CrUZsida
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Australia
Registered:
November 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Tue, 07 September 2004 00:43 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bbaacchhyy wrote on Tue, 07 September 2004 06:06

Now what to do with the HSV 336mm fronts and 315 rears .....

You have?
You sell?
How much?
How new?
What is?
etc etc etc

PM Me!
  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Tue, 07 September 2004 01:51 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PM coming. Flat out atm, give me a little time and I'll whet your appetite Very Happy
  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Fri, 17 September 2004 14:19 Go to previous messageGo to next message
yay !!! me got me some front rotors!!! FINALLLYYY!!!!!

wooot!!

http://www.project-mu.co.jp/product-folder/rotor/s cr.html

http://www.project-mu.co.jp/product-folder/rotor/image/scr.jpg
  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Fri, 17 September 2004 14:26 Go to previous messageGo to next message
hmmmm,

the company seems to run some damn nice JGTC cars...
damn i wish i could watch some of that series on tv... No No No

GT300 celica
http://www.project-mu.co.jp/e/images/cars/gt2004/gt300l01.jpg

JZA80 supra

http://www.project-mu.co.jp/e/images/race/gt500_35-1-L.jpg



apparently the company also runs a drift sprintah... No No No


http://www.project-mu.co.jp/images/index/pics/D1-86_034.jpg
  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Sat, 18 September 2004 00:20 Go to previous messageGo to next message
So pray tell Meister Ed, what are the specs on the discs and the price ?

Are they new, s/hand or what ?

How did you get hold of them ?

Catch ya

Michael B
  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Sat, 18 September 2004 02:16 Go to previous messageGo to next message
rex sti items

i just bombed all the wrx forums with wtd ads Wink

actually michael - could you do me a favour and measure the indide dia of the inboard friction surface? the bit you machined open a little bit to claer the control arm... (from memory you took it out to the edge of the cooling vanes. what dia is that exactly?

cheers mate
ed
  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Sat, 18 September 2004 05:54 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oh, an theyre new, but 2nd hand if you get me.

price was $400pr

yet to pick them up though (waiting for a workshop to finish with the blokes car before i can get them). the other option, available from the same guy, is some freshly machined, OEM sti rotors, 40,000km old @ 29.20mm thick for $150....
  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Mon, 20 September 2004 21:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ed_ma61 wrote on Sat, 18 September 2004 12:16


actually michael - could you do me a favour and measure the indide dia of the inboard friction surface? the bit you machined open a little bit to claer the control arm... (from memory you took it out to the edge of the cooling vanes. what dia is that exactly?

cheers mate
ed


Ed,

The ID of the inboard friction face is 216mm ID (friction face is 55mm wide) (to clear the LCA).

I also took 7 or 8mm off the hub/disc mounting face to bring the disc more outboard as well (to help clear the ball joint), you can see the end result from the attached pic.

http://img64.exs.cx/img64/1477/2004-05-18004.jpg

Cheers

Michael B
  Send a private message to this user    
justcallmefrank
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Tue, 21 September 2004 00:13 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ed_ma61 wrote on Sat, 18 September 2004 13:54

yet to pick them up though (waiting for a workshop to finish with the blokes car before i can get them). the other option, available from the same guy, is some freshly machined, OEM sti rotors, 40,000km old @ 29.20mm thick for $150....


If they are anything like the factory MY00 WRX rotors I wouldn't want them. They aren't the most durable things in the world. Steph's uncle had to replace them with DBA ones within a year or two, and he's not even the most aggressive braker.
  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Tue, 21 September 2004 00:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Nathan,

The STi rotors that Ed and I are using are the ones that are fitted with the Brembo calipers and 326mm dis, whereas the std ones are much smaller - are these the type that you friend had trouble with ?
  Send a private message to this user    
justcallmefrank
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Tue, 21 September 2004 00:37 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Yeah, I know the standard ones are smaller, and the calipers are made by Brembo, but it was more the quality of the factory Subaru rotors that were questionable. The DBA replacements are working much better and show none of the signs of the old ones.

If the STi ones were made by Subaru still, even though they are a different size, the same problem with their material may arise, especially as I can see Ed giving them a hammering Laughing
  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Tue, 21 September 2004 01:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
One reason why I went for the 4000 series DBA's (apart that they were cheaper than the std ones Confused ) is the fact that I will be giving them a hammering, particularly at Mallala which is really hard on brakes.

Only time will tell how well they last .......

Hopefully before Xmas I'll be hitting the roads.....
  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Tue, 21 September 2004 05:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
why the impication that i give my car a hammering? huh? why? No No No

anyway - i think i will go the stock scubie rotors.

to be honest - i dont care if the oem rotors only last 20,000km that'll see me into next year where i can afford a new set of DBA 4000's. this will just get me rolling at the very least Smile

get it done, get it engineered, ave a bit of fun, and continue the upgrade path Smile

cheers
ed

  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Tue, 21 September 2004 05:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
oh, and thanks for the ID michael - i need to make sure whatever rotors i get are capable of being taken out to a similar size

cheers
ed
  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 23 September 2004 13:59 Go to previous messageGo to next message
picked up my OEM STi rotors tonight


made by Brembo how good is that Very Happy perhaps explains why theyre se exxy direct from subaru.

theyve got 0.8mm of wear on them (1.2mm remaining 'till min thickness) - so for what i want at the present time, theyre perfect Smile

anyway - michael, ive been reviewing your photos of the clearance with the lower control arm and the ball joint under the control arm. sure, its AWEFULLY toight before machining, but it does still appear to clear everything (albiet *just*). true/false?

with my setup, im down to the mm in terms of clearances, so cant afford to wipe 7mm off the hub, maybe 2 or 3mm. also, the oem rotors dont look like theyll allow machining out to 216mm, more like 202-205mm. reckon i can get away with minimal machining, or are there serious fouling issues that im not aware of?
  Send a private message to this user    
justcallmefrank
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 23 September 2004 14:06 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Well there ya go, good find! Nod
  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 23 September 2004 14:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pics coming Smile

man its been a LOOONG day.

still havent slept properly since like saturday. my right eyelid is flickering like a motherfucker...
  Send a private message to this user    
justcallmefrank
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 23 September 2004 14:10 Go to previous messageGo to next message
You OBVIOUSLY haven't drunk enough, pretty soon they'll both start twitching and then you know you've accomplished something! C'mon dial-up boy, pics!
  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 23 September 2004 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PICS Smile


http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=getfile&id=6801

http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=getfile&id=6802
  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 23 September 2004 14:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
OH,

'nother question for you michael...

when you made your hub centric spacer, what OD did you decide to make the spigot that centred the wheel??

ive gone measuring the stock falcon spigots, and as a general rule, the rears are 70.40mm OD and the fronts are 70.20mm OD

the DBA cat states the centre hole dia of the rear discs is 70.50mm

now, i wouldve thought the tolerances would be quite high on these parts. id imagine the rotors would need to be very accurately centred, BUT also wouldve though the wheels should interface closely Confused with atleast 0.2mm variation between front and back spigots, i dont see how thats possible.

from what i can masure on my wheels the hole is ~71mm give or take. stick that on even a 70.5mm spindle, and it doesnt seem quite right Confused

perhaps im overengineering my tolerances a little?

ed
  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 23 September 2004 21:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ed_ma61 wrote on Thu, 23 September 2004 23:59


anyway - michael, ive been reviewing your photos of the clearance with the lower control arm and the ball joint under the control arm. sure, its AWEFULLY toight before machining, but it does still appear to clear everything (albiet *just*). true/false?

with my setup, im down to the mm in terms of clearances, so cant afford to wipe 7mm off the hub, maybe 2 or 3mm. also, the oem rotors dont look like theyll allow machining out to 216mm, more like 202-205mm. reckon i can get away with minimal machining, or are there serious fouling issues that im not aware of?


Ed,

When I fitted the unmodified discs to the unmodified hubs, in certain positions it clearde, but with the suspension on a fair bit of compression (not just ride height) it giot very close in the straight ahead position, but the fouling issue with the LCA was mainly heading towards full lock in either direction.

Also heading to lock, started to touch the ball joint as well, which lead me to machine the ID of the disc as well as the face of the hub.

The vanes on the inside of the disc were a good guide (the depth of the Skyline pad is not as great as the ST205 Calipers, so running out of friction face was not an issue), and the depth that was removed from the hub face was based on grip length remiaining for the disc attachment bolts compared to the std hub.

To check out your clearances, do it with teh setup all attached and then compress the suspension (no spring fitted) to varios stages and run from full lock in one direction to another and keep checking that way.

Even with what I have taken off, it gets pretty close. It seems taht it is the inclination of the strut that alters the clearance as the strut pivots on the lower ball joint.

Phew.....

BTW, where did you get the calipers ? Ideally, I'd like to get calipers that give a bigger disc contact area than the skylines, but that is what I had. What are the pad dimensions of the ST205 calipers ?

As for the hub centric spacer, not sure why you are measuring the Falcon spigots ? The Crown hub spigot is 68mm, and the Falcon mags have a spigot OD of 71mm (in the mag), so the centric rings that I have had machined are 70.95 +/- 0.05mm on the OD, and 67.95 +/- 0.05mm on the ID, and they are as snug as.

As a guide, the disc location hole on the Commodore rear has a tolerance of 0,05mm overall.

Cheers

Michael B
  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Fri, 24 September 2004 00:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
the reason i was measuring the falcon spigots was: as my mags were off a falcon, i wondered what size spigot the falcon had.

given that my wheels locating hole has an ID of ~71mm, i was very suprised to see that the falcon's spigot was only 70.4mm and 70.2mm rear and front respectively.

it got me wondering, exactly, how tight this clearance was supposed to be. i mean, if there's 0.2mm difference between front and back spigots on the same car, obviously one set of wheels is going to fit differently to each.

anyway, 70.95 sounds much better in my books. ill be taking a wheel to the machinists anyway, but just wanted to know what you had done.

regarding clearances - all i can say is that its going to be TOIGHT!! those st205 calipers sneak up disturbingly close to the back of the wheels already Confused

i might have to get the grinder on the LCA. the ball joint could pove a tad more difficult.

ahh - we'll see!

ed
  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Fri, 24 September 2004 00:30 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ed_ma61 wrote on Fri, 24 September 2004 10:25


given that my wheels locating hole has an ID of ~71mm, i was very suprised to see that the falcon's spigot was only 70.4mm and 70.2mm rear and front respectively.


Pord Palcon quality for you !!!!!!

Quote:



regarding clearances - all i can say is that its going to be TOIGHT!! those st205 calipers sneak up disturbingly close to the back of the wheels already Confused

i might have to get the grinder on the LCA. the ball joint could pove a tad more difficult.
ed


I started to grind the LCA, but soon gave up when seeing how much needed to come off, but in your case, you may have to do it, as it all helps.

Where did you get the ST205 calipers from and how much ?

[Updated on: Fri, 24 September 2004 00:31]

  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Fri, 24 September 2004 00:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
dave (GT) got them from some dumb-ass wrecker in melb who didnt know what they were. dave bought the pair for $150, then fleeced me $200 for them Razz

the more i think about this, its going to be SO damn tight.

im very wary of machining the disc face past the edge of the cooling vanes, but i might have to put at least a taper on the cut to open it up just that little bit more...

might even have to undercut the edge of the brake pad a little bit

[Updated on: Fri, 24 September 2004 00:36]

  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Fri, 24 September 2004 01:28 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ed_ma61 wrote on Fri, 24 September 2004 10:33

dave (GT) got them from some dumb-ass wrecker in melb who didnt know what they were. dave bought the pair for $150, then fleeced me $200 for them Razz

Bastard !!!!

Quote:


the more i think about this, its going to be SO damn tight.


How deep are the calipers ? I could quickly measure how far the ZX Calipers sit proud of the friction face for comparison.

Quote:


im very wary of machining the disc face past the edge of the cooling vanes, but i might have to put at least a taper on the cut to open it up just that little bit more...

might even have to undercut the edge of the brake pad a little bit

I would be too, but try and see what you can do. I only had to take 8mm rad off the inside face of the disc, and don't forget the DBA's are the Kangaroo paw design, rather than the traditional 'vent'

Cheers

MB
  Send a private message to this user    
ed_ma61
Forums Junkie


Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Fri, 24 September 2004 01:35 Go to previous messageGo to next message
these brembos arent the traditional vent style either - they resemble the kangaroo paw internally.

dont worry about your caliper depth... not much point. ill try and get the centre hole machined out of the rotors today so i can sit them up on the hubs, then ill just take it from there.

Very Happy
  Send a private message to this user    
draven
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Tue, 09 November 2004 12:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ok, it has come crunch time for a brake upgrade... and I have 3 real options.

1) RDA rotors (stock ma61 size), stock calipers, Lucas brake pads. Reportedly (from darryl on these forums) they're good for track use, so they'd be great for my intentions.... but I'm dubious about such a small rotor dissapating enough heat.

2) R33 skyline calipers and discs (or possibly STi dba 4000 rotors, if they'll fit with the calipers), redrill the discs to 4-stud. not sure about the legalities of that, but it saves me the hassle of a 5 stud conversion. Get wheel hub adapters (4x114.3 - 5x114.3) which also take my offset up to +35, so I can easily find wheels. Possibly issues with legality of wheel hub adapters and also safety issues (although I know of more than 1 person who races with hub adapters on, and never had any troubles)

3) go a 5-stud conversion. Get the same brakes as above, and deal with my crappy low offset.

Opinions?
I'm kinda leaning toward option 2, pending a chat with an engineer regarding the legalities.
  Send a private message to this user    
rsdeo
Regular


Location:
Burlington, On. Canada
Registered:
January 2004
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Tue, 09 November 2004 14:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Another brake option

http://www.celicasupra.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t= 12348
  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Tue, 09 November 2004 20:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Greg,

There are a few other things to consider along with your options that you listed.

I mainly went to the 5 stud hassle to get a much wider range of mags in the +6 to +25 offset, both new and s/hand.

IMHO, the suggestions on options ;
1. 3rd Choice, but if you do, stick with the better quality rotor rather than a cheapie.
2. 2nd Choice. R33 calipers and discs on the 4 stud hub is not a straight bolt-on, although some have done it. If done correctly, redrilling to 4 stud shouldn't be a problem, but I think the 'bolt ob spacers' are a grey area and up to the engineer doing the approval.
3. 1st Choice. A bit more work and effort, but 17x8" Ford rims fit a treat, and they are plentiful. Mine cost me $200 ea new.
4. JK BBK (from the states). Sad to say, but I doubt whether they are legal here , as the calipers don't have dust seals on the pistons, which I believe is an ADR requirement, but talk tio an engineer to confirm.

My suggestion is go the 5 stud, and for the rears do as either Ed or I have done, and with the fronts, go the way Norbs or I have done.

More than happy to help either way. Very Happy Very Happy
  Send a private message to this user    
justcallmefrank
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Wed, 10 November 2004 00:33 Go to previous messageGo to next message
If it were me, if you can't find appropriate 4-stud wheels, do option two, but with MS65 hubs.

This is what I was planning, but now I have my eye on a particular set of 4-stud wheels, I've abandoned this idea and am doing it in 4-stud on MA61 hubs.
  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Wed, 10 November 2004 23:57 Go to previous messageGo to next message
For those doing any type of brake conversion, I have some stainless brake lines for sale that are LEGAL and ADR approved in the following thread ;

http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&t h=51077&rid=3701&S=bf92c570f8883be2f6d0ba4 3db781cf7&pl_view=&start=0#msg_466973

But here are the pics....

These are LEGAL and ADR approved !!!! No ifs or buts.


They have the plastic sleeves and also have the proper steel 'fittings' so that they clamp into the body/frame clips.

I am asking only $290 + postage ($10 within Australia), which is what they cost me.

Any questions, just ask.

http://img114.exs.cx/img114/9409/2004-11-10026.jpg

http://img114.exs.cx/img114/3991/2004-11-10027.jpg
  Send a private message to this user    
draven
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 11 November 2004 00:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
re those brake lines michael... put em on hold for me Smile Will they mate with the R33 caliper, or should I be heading to pirtek for a custom fitting? (I'm assuming it'll mate to the ma61 cyl, since you have the same)
  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 11 November 2004 00:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
PM on it's way.
  Send a private message to this user    
Norbie
Forums Junkie


Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 11 November 2004 01:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Ooooh sexy! Once I have confirmation the stock brake lines will work OK with my setup (should know on the weekend) I'll take a set. Smile
  Send a private message to this user    
draven
Forums Junkie


I supported Toymods

Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
 
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 11 November 2004 01:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
pft
there's only 1 set
and I scored dibs Smile
  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 11 November 2004 01:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
draven wrote on Thu, 11 November 2004 12:36

pft
there's only 1 set
and I scored dibs Smile


He's right Norbs, but you are next in line if he changes his mind.

However, I can get more made locally at the price of $380 if need be. Just let me know (they will be with the 10mm threaded type connector as I have used)
  Send a private message to this user    
Norbie
Forums Junkie


Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 11 November 2004 01:47 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Sorry I was too lazy to read the thread... my bad!
  Send a private message to this user    
bbaacchhyy
Forums Junkie


Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
Re: 5 stud conv. for MA61 - so I can get some decent mags !!!!! Now MA61 BBK :-) Thu, 25 November 2004 05:29 Go to previous messageGo to previous message
Just for those that are interested.

Whilst the setup I have now is completed and yet to be fully tested, by siome luck, I have landed with a set of HSV Coupe 4 F&R discs. The fronts are 336 x 32mm radially vented and radially slotted, and the rears are 315 x 18mm radially vented and radially slotted.

I recently missed out on a set of bargain Porsche GT3 calipers, but have been hunting and looking anad thinking athat I may still change my setup for the hell of it.

Whilst i thoght the s/hand GT3 calipers were cheap, they are not so bad new.

For monoblock, 2001 - 2004 GT3 front 4 potters are AUS $700 each NEW at retail price !!!!!!!

Anyone in bed with a Porsche dealer ??????
  Send a private message to this user    
Pages (8): [ «  <  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  >  »]   Switch to threaded view of this topic Create a new topic Submit Reply
Previous Topic:diff help please.
Next Topic:SA63 - 5me
Goto Forum:
-=] Back to Top [=-

Current Time: Mon Jun 10 15:23:20 UTC 2024

Total time taken to generate the page: 0.0081281661987305 seconds

Bandwidth utilization bar

.:: Contact :: Home ::.

Powered by: FUDforum 2.3.8
Copyright ©2001-2003 Advanced Internet Designs Inc.