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ed_ma61
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individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 01:16 Go to next message
ok folks...

ive always been happy to admit im a complete gumby with electronics, and its that time again Smile

im going to be running 6x on-plug coil packs on the new engine.

to complement these plugs, ive got my hands on a cam angle sensor from a 7mgte (fits the 2jz!) that has 3 reluctor thingy's in it (one reluctor uses the multi pointed wheel, the other two share a single pointed rotating wheel 180deg apart). i figure this type of signal should be adequate for the ecu to time such coils?

but what other hardware do i need to look at getting my hands on?? like an igniter or something (not that i understand what these do!)... what particular type? how many? what else?

i wont be putting any of this together myself, or wiring it, but do need to know what physical parts i need for a complete system. give me some time to acumulate siad bits in a timly 'tight-ass' fashion Very Happy

cheers
ed

[Updated on: Tue, 19 October 2004 02:00]

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RWDboy
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 01:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I can say that the signal will be adequete for the ecu, someone might want to confirm that the reluctor pick-ups should be good for the amount of revs you want out of the engine - 8500ish (?) isn't that steep, but it's worth checking these things.

As for an igniter, I too am a massif dong when it comes to these things! If there is such a thing as an igniter then I'm guessing it's some kind of glorified relay/transistor thing...so I'm waiting for other ppls answers to that Razz
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ed_ma61
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 02:04 Go to previous messageGo to next message
aside: (hehehe - over recent days i think ive convinced myself to lower the redline to 8000rpm Rolling Eyes )
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RWDboy
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 02:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
(aside/spam : hehehe hehehe )
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CrUZsida
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 02:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
What ecu are you running Ed?
Does it have 6 ignition outputs?
If not, you will have to get someone to design a blackbox that can handle the input from the pickup, and split it to the 6 coilpacks in the correct firing order.
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ed_ma61
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 02:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
if i have to buy a motec, ill buy a motec. that doesnt concern me. well, it does, but yeah, its not an issue Cool
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CrUZsida
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 02:36 Go to previous messageGo to next message
You wont have to get MoTeC, most can control 6 ingitions outputs, but you have to buy ignitors that are compatible with the ecu.

I recommend getting Bosch 008's
http://www.autronic.com/image_files/ignition_modules_and_coils/Boschmodule.jpg
As they are compatible with most ecu's.

But whether you will 3 or 6, I'm not sure.
You will have to check with the ecu you plan to use.
Some ecu's have built-in ignitors, so you can wire the coil pack directly to the ecu.

Base the electrics around the ecu choice, or wait until you buy an ecu.
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ed_ma61
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 02:48 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ahhh ok...

see, thats good to know.

pity i suck at knowing how all this stuff goes together Rolling Eyes so is that all i need to think about for the ignition side of things? ive got the coils, ive got a CAS, ill eventually pick an ecu +- igniters... anything else?
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CrUZsida
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 02:55 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I've never dealt with coilpacks, but lets assume the set up is the same.

The signal runs from ECU to ignitor (Bosch 008).
Ignitor then has 2 wires going to the coil.
Goes from coil to dizzy to plug.

So it sounds like its all sussed.

I have the above but times 2
You will have the above but times 6.

Just make sure the wires to coil are phat.

Like 15-20A wires.
You don't wont the ignition breaking down at high rpm.
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BlackSupra
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 03:00 Go to previous messageGo to next message
depending on what ecu you get you can even get inbuilt ignitors.

But thats pretty much it, coils, 7m CAS, ignitor, ecu with 6 ignition outputs.

As described above.
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thechuckster
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 03:01 Go to previous messageGo to next message
individual coil packs means no waste-spark so your ignitor(s) solution will have to be able to drive 6 separate coils.

does the 2jz have a CAS in the head pointed at the intake cam (like the 1JZ)? just curious?
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BlackSupra
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 03:08 Go to previous messageGo to next message
GE runs a dizzy

and the 2jzgte gear is mounted in another part of the head. The GE head doesnt have the provision for it. The GTE also runs a crank angle sensor.

The beauty of the 7mgte cam angle sensor is that it fits where the dizzy was and has all the neccasary signals required by the ecu.

I would think that a 1jz ignitor would do the job, wouldnt think the 2jz was too different either.

But i really don't know, im buying an ecu with inbuilt ignitor.
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wilbo666
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 03:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
thechuckster wrote on Tue, 19 October 2004 13:01

individual coil packs means no waste-spark so your ignitor(s) solution will have to be able to drive 6 separate coils.

does the 2jz have a CAS in the head pointed at the intake cam (like the 1JZ)? just curious?




I think non vvti 2jzge's have dizzys, 2jz-gte's and vvti 2jzge's are DLI. Think he's got an early 2jzge and is using the 7mgte cam angle sensor, in place of the dizzy!?

Cheers
Wilbo
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ed_ma61
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 03:21 Go to previous messageGo to next message
wilbo666 wrote on Tue, 19 October 2004 13:18

Think he's got an early 2jzge and is using the 7mgte cam angle sensor, in place of the dizzy!?

Cheers
Wilbo


correct

fwiw: the gear drive for the CAS (ex dizzy) comes off the exhaust cam
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BlackSupra
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 03:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
and only the mounting point needs to be modified.......again Rolling Eyes
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ed_ma61
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 03:25 Go to previous messageGo to next message
welcome to "building" an engine grashopper
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BlackSupra
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 03:50 Go to previous messageGo to next message
haha done and mounted Cool
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ed_ma61
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 05:31 Go to previous messageGo to next message
ditto Cool

did you slot the hole making it rotationally adjustable, or just fixed?

have you mounted the coil packs yet? i did mine over the weekend. i just modified the 1jz steel brackets and mounted thse to the existing 2jz valley cover
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BlackSupra
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 06:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
I used a bigger drill bit and drilled a new hole and allowed for some play, not quite as much as the existing one had, probably only a few degrees, do you really need such a big slot?

I cut down the mounts on the 1jz coils and used self tappers to affix the coilpacks to the 2jzge valley cover. so yeah the same thing.

but yeah all mounted.

[Updated on: Tue, 19 October 2004 06:28]

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gianttomato
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 06:41 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Buy Motec M600. You'll need it anyway.

Buy second hand 1/2JZGTE 6 channel ignitor off Yahoo Jap Auctions for 28 cents. Get crank and cam angle sensors from GTE motor. You will need a GTE or 2JZGE VVTi oil pump cover and trigger ring. You'll need to machine a small hole in the intake cam side of the head for the cam angle sensor to be located (or you could locate it all on the cam wheel). You'll also need to be able to tell the Motec whe reference angle between crank and cam sensors (easyish).

Or you could just use the guts of the 1/2JZGE dizzy and blank off the top.

Or you could modify a 7MGTE CAS.

Wire up. Enjoy.

[Updated on: Tue, 19 October 2004 21:52]

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mrshin
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Re: individual coil paks - what else do i need ??? Tue, 19 October 2004 14:37 Go to previous message
Do as GT said - if you have issues getting a 6 channel ignitor, look into a couple of other options - Bosch '008s', which you can find on carby'd Camira's, or even the super-simple 3 wire ones, you can get them off of any Astron 4 pot EFI Magna. Follow the wiring on the Motec site, and enjoy!
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