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Location:
Perth
Registered:
April 2003
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How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Mon, 01 November 2004 17:30
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Hello..
Just got my springs delivered from kmac and would like to know do other fellas find grip in the wet with a solid rear end car ?
I've just had some 4kg springs put in the rear.. and i'm running a 1.5 way lsd (rears run 195 /60 / 14 Bridgestone G3). It just seems that the car is quick to swap ends in the wet. My old TA22 (open centre) wasnt close to being this bad in the wet and that was running 175 wide rubber.
The rear dampers do not feel overdamped. And the front to rear roll rates do seem to match. Great in the dry.. its just the wet.
Any ideas ?
Thanks
James
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Mon, 01 November 2004 17:34
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thats what you want dont ya? 
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Mon, 01 November 2004 18:48
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Nah dood.. i want it to grip.
I'm cool with the thing oversteering.. just not at such low speeds.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Mon, 01 November 2004 18:52
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Maybe it's the tyres? or the driving style? There are kits for getting more grip in the rear thoguh arnt there?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Mon, 01 November 2004 21:06
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the G3s are good tyres... mebbe ur just giving it too much gas mid corner?
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Mon, 01 November 2004 21:58
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Go and buy some Michelin Energy XM1's...... I was gonna suggest we do a swap if you live in Sydney, but....... you don't.
I'm so SICK of traction!!!!
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Mon, 01 November 2004 22:24
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Soften up the rear maybe or get wider tyres.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Mon, 01 November 2004 22:37
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wider tyres on 900kg ae86 = aquaplaning heaven
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Location:
Girraween,Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Mon, 01 November 2004 22:58
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I don't believe wider tyres is the answer, I believe the problem could be lack of experience with a LSD, You said your last car had an open centre, Just try be a lil bit more gentle on the GO! pedal till you get used to it.
Cheers,
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Mon, 01 November 2004 23:42
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Thanks fellas.
I think it might come down to driving style.
The rear feels good in the longer sweeping stuff. Its just in the tighter stuff where it starts to swing around. From memory, i could put the power down with my open center TA22 faster and harder than i can with a LSD rear end in a sprinter.
The rear doesnt seem to have excessive bump or rebound.
Perhaps more wet road driving is in order. 
James
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Tue, 02 November 2004 00:01
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could it be that you also have more power now? in the part of the rev range when you're gunning it out of those corners? who knows, $10 says that it comes down to driving style!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Tue, 02 November 2004 04:07
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I believe the problem is the 4kg/mm springs in the rear. I run the same setup (5/4) and I dont drive in the wet. Fact is it would grip on a track but on our bumpy roads it starts to lose it. But what dampers are you running, youd need some good quality ones to keep the springs in check a bit.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Tue, 02 November 2004 04:12
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i can't grip at all... forget about it... and im using reletivly new tyres...
in the wet... i tend not to go out, but if i do, i take roundabouts at 10km/h... and higher and i break traction
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Tue, 02 November 2004 04:23
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I'm teeling you all - Michelin Energy XM-1's..... I can reclutch VERY hard in second in a corner and they won't lose traction. In the dry it's just ridiculous. And frustrating!
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Location:
Girraween,Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Tue, 02 November 2004 04:28
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Well it's raining now so get out there & get amongst it, if you dare! But be carefull!!!! 
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Tue, 02 November 2004 04:34
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| UUP-46X wrote on Tue, 02 November 2004 15:28 |
Well it's raining now so get out there & get amongst it, if you dare! But be carefull!!!!
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Leaving work early to do just that with my 13 inch steelies and old, plastic-hard tyres
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Tue, 02 November 2004 16:56
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Heya fellas..
I've been doing more thinking..
And just remembered that the rear setup might be riding awfully close to the bump stops. I'll go and cut out 1 inch from it and see how it goes then.
I dont have added any more power since i got the car. So thats out. - wish i had more power though.
In the rear i'm running a set of koni (red) internally (read pain in the @#$# to adjust) adjustable shocks. - I have not got around to setting that just yet. With around 1/2 way around, the thing seems to be ok.
My round about speed for now seems to be around 10kmh as well. The funny thing is.. it does well in the sweeping stuff. What i'll do i go and cut off 1 - 2 inches from the bump stop.. and see how that goes. *hopefully somewhere*
If i can find myself a set of 15's .. i'll go have a look at the Michelin Energy XM-1s were they expensive tyres ?
I'm not suddenly going to wide open throttle to get the back end out. I'm driving close to the limit of front grip.. then the back end just (without alot of warning) steps out - bigtime. No progression in the wet. If i have not got it all mixed up... i think that i might have had less understeer without the lsd and less of the rear end sliding away.
I do most of my suspension tuning and setup with the wet / rain. I find that its easier to setup a more progressive car when done in the wet. The understeer comes in sooner (so i know what to dial out). - yes i've also got slight (should be less) understeer.
Plan...
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1. Cut bump stop (perhaps its a rear squat problem)
2. Lower front of the car. (new rear spings have lowered the rear)
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Tue, 02 November 2004 17:01
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after i cut my bump stops out
my car became more progressive. my car bump stops only had about 2cm's of clearance tho
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Tue, 02 November 2004 19:11
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Hello Ian,
I've found the saw...
Going to cut it tomorrow!
2cm is about the same sorta clearance i've got now. How much of the bump stops did you end up cutting out ?
Thanks dood
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Wed, 03 November 2004 00:14
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from memory the bumps stops are in segments, cant remember how many, but its like wide bit, necks down quite a bit, wide bit if you know what i mean.
just cut off the first segment, its a bit more than an inch long, then take it for a drive and see how it goes.
use a sharp knife or razor blade or something, failing that just use a hacksaw blade.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Wed, 03 November 2004 00:44
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Zero wet weather grip here Lowered, uprate springs all around with good adjustable dampers on the front and rooted Tokicos on the back. Tyres are cheapie shit with 175s front and 195s rear. Single spinner S series diff. Dry road grip is actually pretty good, with a slight tendancy to understeer, but the 195s on the back means the tail tends to aquaplane like a mofo if it's wet. Snap oversteer is a flex of my right foot away at virtually any speed, but it's reasonably progressive when it lets go on constant throttle and it hooks up again pretty much straight away with a bit of countersteer and less gas.
Roundabouts are scary fun in the wet
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Wed, 03 November 2004 00:56
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what grip lol!  ,  even with a 4ac running on 3, with these "dorifto specials" 165/75/13 tyres on some ghetto corolla wheels, it was an oversteer pig, round abouts werent tooo bad if u were quick but smooth with the wheel, but those wheels were ANTI hills lol, but yeh, im gonna run more dry friendly rubber with summer coming up and a tuff new engine... 
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Wed, 03 November 2004 04:07
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I don't really see how cutting the bump stops will eliminate your problem (haven't read the whole thread) but thats what i'm assuming your trying to do
When i lowered my car at the back, the only pain in the ass was this horrible grinding noise whenever i entered driveways/off camber corners, after thinking about the possible causes of these noises i got to work and hacked away at the bump stops - best thing i've ever done in terms of comfort, but i don't see any difference while driving. So unless your bogging your rear down excessively in the wet, i think the bump stops won't have much effect on this.
I'd say you have no tread on the back, or your LSD is super happy
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Wed, 03 November 2004 05:40
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when my car body rolls when cornering it would hit the bump stop and stop the spring and shock travel almost instantaneously
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2004
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Wed, 03 November 2004 21:10
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The lsd i'm running is very tight. 1.5 way TRD job. On gravel its actually very nice. But perhaps its abit too tight for wet roads (if there is any logic to this).
Today i cut away about 1.5 inches of bump stop and firmed up the rear (winding in more dampening) and i also lowered the front in hopes of getting rid of some more understeer.
It wasnt raining in perth today but in the dry - the lowered front of the car did feel more direct. - i dropped the spring collars 10mm. which (in hindsight) is abit too much and the car now sits with the front noticably closer to the road. Also wound too much dampening in to the rear as well. The rear feels overdamped. * a tomorrow job *
Going to raise the front abit and soften the rear.
I seem to be a sucker for punishment when it comes to car setup.
And wait for some more rain.
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Registered:
August 2003
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Thu, 04 November 2004 00:20
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The answer is simple.
In the wet, you need to have Itsuki sitting in the backseat.
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Registered:
October 2004
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Re: How do you find grip in the wet with an AE86?
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Thu, 04 November 2004 03:02
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| bathurst-91 wrote on Tue, 02 November 2004 15:07 |
I believe the problem is the 4kg/mm springs in the rear. I run the same setup (5/4) and I dont drive in the wet. Fact is it would grip on a track but on our bumpy roads it starts to lose it. But what dampers are you running, youd need some good quality ones to keep the springs in check a bit.
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yikes!!! can't be that bad??? 10km/h?? roundabouts and tight turns are my favourite thing to tackle ...
phew... what am i getting myself into
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