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Location:
Castle Hill
Registered:
August 2003
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Savage Understeer
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Thu, 11 November 2004 10:30
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hey guys, I am getting really bad understeer lately, when I turn into a corner with a bit of speed it just slides from the front and I am not getting much action in the rear. It is prolly my driving style as I am a scared little bitch since I crashed. But is there anything else that could be causing it?
Its not killing me as I don't try and get it out often, but when I do, it just acts like a guided missile aimed straight at the gutter???
The car is just a stock Sprinter, with chopped springs. The tyres are good tyres, the fronts have good tread and the rears are pretty dead? Can anyone advise me to what is causing this problem?
Thanks Heaps.
-Whitchy-
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Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Thu, 11 November 2004 10:36
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Stock sprinter.. chopped springs... Understeer.. Driving style... I think I'm seeing these things starting to suggest the cause here!
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Adelaide, drift capital
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Thu, 11 November 2004 10:46
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Enter corner...engage handbrake...turn...release handbrake...4ac power-on whilst countersteering...if fail, use clutch also 
If your having issues with general turn-in, it could be due to a number of factors. Good front tyres can make a huge difference, not only decent tread, but a good compound. Also turn-in can be hugely improved by a good wheel allignment.
An easy, cheap ae86 mod is fitting some longer lower control arms. This will give you more track and some negative camber to hug corners better.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Thu, 11 November 2004 10:53
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| 4ageeza wrote on Thu, 11 November 2004 21:46 |
engage handbrake
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AE86s don't come with handbrakes, they have spin turn knobs.
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Thu, 11 November 2004 11:06
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just cause i tyre has tread on it doesnt mean its not shagged 
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Thu, 11 November 2004 19:54
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....or mean it is good.
I think you aren't using enough spin turn knob. If you read the original AE86 manual, it actually suggests you use the spin turn knob for all cornering above parking speeds. If you have the JDM manual, then you need to put it into Altavista Babelfish.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Thu, 11 November 2004 21:32
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do u have JDM zenki bumpstops? if not get some, then chop two more coils off those spings to make them into coiloverz.
no more understeer.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Thu, 11 November 2004 21:54
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You bitter cunts. Give him a break. He didn't even mention anything like "I want to drift my panda AE86 coz Takumi does it and he's a hero blah blah blah..." 
Whitchy, understeer is a trait of the AE86 chassis. Mine did it very badly until I installed the cage and front strut brace.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Thu, 11 November 2004 22:21
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| AE86slut wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 08:54 |
You bitter cunts. Give him a break. He didn't even mention anything like "I want to drift my panda AE86 coz Takumi does it and he's a hero blah blah blah..."
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ummm, how about chopped springs are illegal, dangerous and we dont want to be driving on the same road with them?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 01:04
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| Quote: |
understeer is a trait of the AE86 chassis. Mine did it very badly until I installed the cage and front strut brace.
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I'd be interested to know what I'm doing differently then because mine doesn't seem to do that. There is initial mild understeer in and then progressive oversteer at and beyond the corner apex. As far as I can tell my 86 is stock except for the 195x50x15s. Perhaps I'm not pushing hard enough to see the effect. I am still using the 4A-C though and as such the car remains fundamentally underpowered. Great bootfuls of throttle doesn't upset the car much(it doesn't do much of anything actually).
Cheers,
Dan
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 02:34
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a thicker rear swaybar will do the trick.
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 02:35
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| rob_RA40 wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 09:21 |
| AE86slut wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 08:54 |
You bitter cunts. Give him a break. He didn't even mention anything like "I want to drift my panda AE86 coz Takumi does it and he's a hero blah blah blah..."
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ummm, how about chopped springs are illegal, dangerous and we dont want to be driving on the same road with them?
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So that's an excuse to get stuck into him with the usual anti-AE86 driver comments?
I totally agree, chopped springs are a very bad idea, but all that other bs that comes along with a thread like this from the same people is getting a bit old dude.
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 02:48
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Just liked chopped springs are considered a modification travesty I don't consider fitting a 'cage and front strut brace' as a cure for an understeering car. Maybe a positive by-product, but not a fix.
Look at it from a more technical view point. Springs carry the weight of a car, the shocks control the movement of the springs. Cutting down coils reduces the weight carrying capacity of the springs. The original shocks are made to suit the original springs, which are now altered. The moment you change the relationship between the shocks and the springs the first thing that will suffer is the handling. The AE86, like almost every Toyota (the MR2 is an exception) is an inherrent understeerer, and cutting down the springs has increased that handling trait / problem. Next to suffer will be the steering, which will transmit more road vibrations through.
Save up and buy proper lowering springs and shock absorbers to match, for your AE86. Before that you can try a larger front sway bar which will help, but you can still expect big doses of understeer until you do the suspension properly. End sermon.
[Updated on: Fri, 12 November 2004 02:50]
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 02:59
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| ra23celica wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 13:48 |
I don't consider fitting a 'cage and front strut brace' as a cure for an understeering car. Maybe a positive by-product, but not a fix
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Who ever said it was a "cure"? I merely stated that most of my understeer went away after I installed these items. It obviously stiffened things up a lot and a "by-product" was less understeer.
Whitchy, go and buy some decent suspension. Cut springs are shit and I would think understeer would be the least of your worries while you have that stuff fitted.
A set of King Springs should cost somewhere around $250(?).
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Location:
Toronto, Downtown
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 03:02
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ahhhhh wont a larger front swaybay will induce more understeer
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 03:11
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| AE86slut wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 13:35 |
So that's an excuse to get stuck into him with the usual anti-AE86 driver comments?
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yeah pretty much, if he was a serious enthusiast he wouldnt have cut his springs and we wouldnt have made fun.
when you think about it, we are actually helping serious ae86 enthusiast community by weeding out the tards.
u should be thanking us man 
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Location:
Adelaide, drift capital
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 03:37
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I agree, get proper springs and shocks and a GOOD wheel alignment, and she'll handle a lot better.
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 03:48
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| AE86slut wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 13:59 |
| ra23celica wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 13:48 |
I don't consider fitting a 'cage and front strut brace' as a cure for an understeering car. Maybe a positive by-product, but not a fix
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Who ever said it was a "cure"? I merely stated that most of my understeer went away after I installed these items.
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Relax Slut, I'm not having a go at you, or any AE86 owner. I would have said the same thing if we were talking about a TA22. A lot of AE86 enthusiasts are their own worst enemies by taking everything so seriously and personally. Some of these guys always 'bite' and become ultra defensive.
You said you greatly reduced your understeer after fitting the cage and strut brace in your first post on this thread. This was, at that time, all you had offered on the subject. In my opinion (read 'my opinion') it reads like you were offering a solution, and its a solution of sorts. In my opinion I don't consider that the best option or best 'cure' for a car that understeers, especially as a result of chopping down the springs.
If you want to change the attitude that a few other people have towards AE86 drivers, prove it by adopting a better attitude yourself. Otherwise flame away........'talk to the hand baby'....etc etc.
[Updated on: Fri, 12 November 2004 03:58]
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 03:57
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| 4agte wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 14:02 |
ahhhhh wont a larger front swaybay will induce more understeer
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No.
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 04:25
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| rob_RA40 wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 14:11 |
yeah pretty much, if he was a serious enthusiast he wouldnt have cut his springs and we wouldnt have made fun.
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i know a lot of enthusiests with cut springs
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 04:26
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| rob_RA40 wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 14:11 |
yeah pretty much, if he was a serious enthusiast he wouldnt have cut his springs and we wouldnt have made fun.
when you think about it, we are actually helping serious ae86 enthusiast community by weeding out the tards.
u should be thanking us man
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Dude, I consider myself an enthusiest and I have some pretty wrong chopped springs thanks to the previous owner of my vehicle. They're so bad that once jacked up, I can pull them out straight out. They're still on there only because I am lazy and the mr2 still out handles most vehicles on the road. That said though, I've got a great set of intrax lowering springs in the mail, along with some adjustable shocks  .
If you read the initial post, he did not mention why his springs were cut, just that the were to help us diagnose the problem.
Whitchy, with your cut springs, I'd say that you were probably handling OK for a while because your shocks were helping the situation. But with the extra stress on your shocks they've probably had their life accelerated and could be on their way out. My guess is, now that your shocks are not helping your springs out, you're getting ill effects on your handling.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Location:
Castle Hill
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 05:03
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Thanks for the replys, yeah I did not choose to have chopped springs, they were like that when I bought the car,and I know they are illegal and unsafe, I have plans to get suspension, but I have schoolies in two weeks, and then I have accommodation for the Melb meet, and then I am going away in early Nov at my cost. I understand that new suspension will prolly fix or improve my situation, but it is just not a slight possibility at the moment!I was simply asking if there was a temporary solution to the problem untill I have the cash.
I am gonna borrow a rear sway bar soon, hopefully that will help a bit, otherwise I will just have to deal with it, and wait till I have a few hundred buks to get a nice suspension setup.
Thanks again for the advice.
-Whitchy-
To Rob...I Consider myself a huge AE86 entusiast, I love the Sprinters and most of all I love mine, as I said above I didn't choose to ride around with chopped springs, and I can do nothing about it for a while, so please don't jump to conclusions and assume I am a Takumi wanna be, I don't even watch Initial D, so don't call me a tard.Thanks.
[Updated on: Fri, 12 November 2004 05:10]
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 05:06
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understeer = drift additive !
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 05:13
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KMac springs are incredibly firm so prolly won't fix your understeer. 
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 06:21
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| ra23celica wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 14:48 |
| AE86slut wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 13:59 |
| ra23celica wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 13:48 |
I don't consider fitting a 'cage and front strut brace' as a cure for an understeering car. Maybe a positive by-product, but not a fix
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Who ever said it was a "cure"? I merely stated that most of my understeer went away after I installed these items.
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Relax Slut, I'm not having a go at you, or any AE86 owner. I would have said the same thing if we were talking about a TA22. A lot of AE86 enthusiasts are their own worst enemies by taking everything so seriously and personally. Some of these guys always 'bite' and become ultra defensive.
You said you greatly reduced your understeer after fitting the cage and strut brace in your first post on this thread. This was, at that time, all you had offered on the subject. In my opinion (read 'my opinion') it reads like you were offering a solution, and its a solution of sorts. In my opinion I don't consider that the best option or best 'cure' for a car that understeers, especially as a result of chopping down the springs.
If you want to change the attitude that a few other people have towards AE86 drivers, prove it by adopting a better attitude yourself. Otherwise flame away........'talk to the hand baby'....etc etc.
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Dude, I completely understand where you are coming from, and what I offered in my first post was that understeer is a "trait of the AE86 chassis" which I hoped would help Whitchy to understand part oft he reason why his car understeers.
I don't think I am one to take the bagging seriously and personally, I have only spoken out twice on the matter when I thought things were getting ridiculous. I mean, it's sorta got to the point where AE86 drivers cannot ask a question without
| Quote: |
AE86s don't come with handbrakes, they have spin turn knobs.
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| Quote: |
I think you aren't using enough spin turn knob. If you read the original AE86 manual, it actually suggests you use the spin turn knob for all cornering above parking speeds. If you have the JDM manual, then you need to put it into Altavista Babelfish.
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and
| Quote: |
do u have JDM zenki bumpstops? if not get some, then chop two more coils off those spings to make them into coiloverz.
no more understeer.
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What I offered was more than most of the previous posts, and not bagging out the guy at all, yet I am the one who needs the attitude adjustment? C'mon man..... I have never bagged anyone about their choice of car even though IMO an RA40, for example, is an ugly POS.
This could go on forever, and I'm sick of looking at your palm.
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Registered:
November 2002
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Location:
Adelaide, drift capital
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 07:20
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Shut the fuck up. Question has been answered. 
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Registered:
November 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 07:40
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Hey look !
A foul mouthed agressive student with a AE86.
That's a surprise !
Grow up.
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Location:
Adelaide, drift capital
Registered:
May 2004
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 08:31
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chill my toyota brothers
we can all get along right?
*woosah*
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 08:40
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| WHITCHY wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 16:03 |
Thanks for the replys, yeah I did not choose to have chopped springs, they were like that when I bought the car,and I know they are illegal and unsafe, I have plans to get suspension, but I have schoolies in two weeks, and then I have accommodation for the Melb meet, and then I am going away in early Nov at my cost. I understand that new suspension will prolly fix or improve my situation, but it is just not a slight possibility at the moment!I was simply asking if there was a temporary solution to the problem untill I have the cash.
I am gonna borrow a rear sway bar soon, hopefully that will help a bit, otherwise I will just have to deal with it, and wait till I have a few hundred buks to get a nice suspension setup.
Thanks again for the advice.
-Whitchy-
To Rob...I Consider myself a huge AE86 entusiast, I love the Sprinters and most of all I love mine, as I said above I didn't choose to ride around with chopped springs, and I can do nothing about it for a while, so please don't jump to conclusions and assume I am a Takumi wanna be, I don't even watch Initial D, so don't call me a tard.Thanks.
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best reponse to a flame ever.
gt, nark, rob.. lay off the crack guys or at least take some more 
[Updated on: Fri, 12 November 2004 08:56]
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 08:53
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| 4ageeza wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 18:45 |
[Edit]: my previous 'shut the fuck up' was directed at the people filling the thread with back and forth unassisting slander.
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Well SORRRY for speaking my mind about this bullshit and trying to defend a fellow TRUE AE86 enthusiast.
Next time I'll just keep quiet and let these twits say what they will to any and every '86 owner.
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 08:58
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| ra23celica wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 17:42 |
Understood, and all of this rubbish above could have been completely avoided (hindsight is a fabulous thing) if Whitchy had simply said - 'I bought the car like this - I did not cut down the springs'.
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Who the fuck cares if the springs were cut or not, or who cut them, the point is that YOU and like-minded others seem to duck-dive everytime you see an 'AE86' titled thread waiting to pounce on unsuspecting owners of which you can claim your irritation on...so childish. So what? just because Whitchy did not say: 'I bought the car like this - I did not cut down the springs' does that mean you (well those others first -come and take your trophy Rob_RA40) have any excuse to bring out all this sarcastic talk? *ohhh a foul mouthed aggresive student with an AE86* i hear you say, well you kinda wonder why I and many others will react like this because it just makes you feel as if you can't even talk anything AE86 without being stereotyped on...let alone own one without the initial D bullshit.
| ra23celica wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 17:42 |
Its a pity that such a good Toyota model has attracted this unfair focus and source for derision, because Initial D and other things have made this a cult car and a 'must have' for a few people who don't know how to modify a car properly, eg. the previous owner, in this case.
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And i'm presuming you knew this previous owner???? How do you know he wasn't an 'enthusiest' ??? just because he cut his springs?
P.s. I'm glad that you said 'for a few people'
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Location:
Adelaide, drift capital
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 09:05
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AE86 slut: dude relax, I was just stating that too much off topic slander was occurring. I dont like people who flame others or harshly stereotype people that they dont at all know, especially towards fellow AE86ers. I aint knocking you for sticking up for a genuine ae86 enthusiast, just saying to people to either add more constructive on topic posts or dont post at all. Now I will practise what I preach by not adding anymore of off-topic shit like this post
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Location:
Baulko Hillo
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 09:12
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| 4ageeza wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 20:05 |
AE86 slut: dude relax, I was just stating that too much off topic slander was occurring. I dont like people who flame others or harshly stereotype people that they dont at all know, especially towards fellow AE86ers. I aint knocking you for sticking up for a genuine ae86 enthusiast, just saying to people to either add more constructive on topic posts or dont post at all. Now I will practise what I preach by not adding anymore of off-topic shit like this post
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Fair enough. Sorry man, just really wanted to get my point across.
Sorry Whitchy for weighing in on your thread. Unfortunately somebody (I'm sure anyone who frequents these forums - not only '86ers - knows who he is) has pissed me off bigtime once again and put me in a foul mood.
The end.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 09:17
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welcome to toymods slut.
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Location:
Canberra, ACT
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 10:57
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Sigh, you AE86 fools should get over yourselves and start restoring KE10s instead.
Then you can cruise around with whitewalls, venetians, and a sunvisor, and, best of all, the receding hairline you'll soon have (if you don't have it already) will be perfectly suited to your car. Buy yourselves some real Toyotas. Or Volvo 240s. Preferably both.
AE86 owners' attitudes generally stink. Dare to prove me wrong
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 13:15
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Its true, most 86 owners take things far too personally, and literally. And thats coming from an owner himself.
Lighten up guys, i find the comments quite hillarious myself, and have a good chuckle every time someone says something about it.
As for your problem, get better tyres for a start, quite good front tyres are a must for not understeering, as is a resasonable driving style.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
sydney.au
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 14:09
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indigold, id say my attitude is fairly un-stinky, im trying to push our ae86 tuning culture as far as i can
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Banned user
Location:
ADELAIDE - The Drift City
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Fri, 12 November 2004 15:27
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soooo... whats wrong with cut springs?
lol
Seriously now, what is acctually wrong with cutting one or two coils off a spring providing that excessive heat is not used, providing they are still captive and that you have shocks that can acctually handle the increased spring rate and decreased spring travel rate?
can anyone acctually give me an answer to that?
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Sat, 13 November 2004 00:12
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Sat, 13 November 2004 03:29
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| AE86slut wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 17:21 |
I mean, it's sorta got to the point where AE86 drivers cannot ask a question without
| Quote: |
AE86s don't come with handbrakes, they have spin turn knobs.
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I'd like to officially state that I was not the first to mention the handbrake. If you go back and look, you will see the suggestion for using the handbrake. It was, surprise surprise, an AE86 owner who did.
It's posts like those, which come from AE86 owners 99% of the time, that make the rest of us have the sorts of attitudes we have toward AE86 owners.
I know some of you are enthusiasts, but you'll have to suffer being lumped in with those guys. That's life, now build a bridge!
Just putting a few things in perspective.
Now back to our normal programming...
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Location:
Adelaide, drift capital
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Sat, 13 November 2004 06:05
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| Nark wrote on Sat, 13 November 2004 13:59 |
| AE86slut wrote on Fri, 12 November 2004 17:21 |
I mean, it's sorta got to the point where AE86 drivers cannot ask a question without
| Quote: |
AE86s don't come with handbrakes, they have spin turn knobs.
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I'd like to officially state that I was not the first to mention the handbrake. If you go back and look, you will see the suggestion for using the handbrake. It was, surprise surprise, an AE86 owner who did.
It's posts like those, which come from AE86 owners 99% of the time, that make the rest of us have the sorts of attitudes we have toward AE86 owners.
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WTF? How does a meantion of a handbrake lead towards your bitteness towards ae86? I simply meantioned it in context of understeer. Many people will suggest to use a handbrake on drift corner entry, especially with poor susp.
It was you who made the 'spin turn knob' comment which AE86slut pointed out is an uncalled for comment towards AE86ers.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Sat, 13 November 2004 23:34
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BAAAAhahaha!!
I can hear all the other AE86 guys slapping their foreheads...
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Sun, 14 November 2004 01:57
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| Nark wrote on Sun, 14 November 2004 10:34 |
BAAAAhahaha!!
I can hear all the other AE86 guys slapping their foreheads...
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yeah..........at you
I scolled up just then and read it twice over, and 4ageeza has got it right, YOU were the one who instigated it, not a 'suprise suprise AE86 person'
bahhhhhhhh
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Registered:
June 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Sun, 14 November 2004 02:02
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what's a spin turn knob????
sorry, i just wanna know what you's are talking about so i can say what i have to say.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Sun, 14 November 2004 22:37
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| Nark wrote on Sat, 13 November 2004 14:29 |
I'd like to officially state that I was not the first to mention the handbrake.
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| ae86slaver wrote on Sun, 14 November 2004 12:57 |
I scolled up just then and read it twice over, and 4ageeza has got it right, YOU were the one who instigated it, not a 'suprise suprise AE86 person'
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Perhaps read it a few more times and try to find that elusive first reference to the handbrake.
haha You AE86 guys are amazing. I'll give you that. You guys seem to live in this world where everyone turns corners by going sideways...
Here's a bit of a peak into the reality of a non-AE86 driver:
If someone suggests that you use the handbrake to cure understeer, they get laughed at and told to go buy an AE86 for his fully siik dorifuto action. Or someone cracks a joke about spin turn knobs...
And yet, here we have 4ageeza suggesting the same thing and the AE86 guys don't even blink about it. Truly amazing. You guys are almost a species unto yourselves.
And you wonder why the rest of us ridicule you so much.
*Insert obligatory apologies to the AE86 owners who complain about being lumped in with the dorifuto crowd*
| joecoolmk2 wrote on Sun, 14 November 2004 13:02 |
what's a spin turn knob????
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Google is your friend.
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Registered:
February 2003
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Sun, 14 November 2004 23:28
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| Nark wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 09:37 |
| Nark wrote on Sat, 13 November 2004 14:29 |
I'd like to officially state that I was not the first to mention the handbrake.
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| ae86slaver wrote on Sun, 14 November 2004 12:57 |
I scolled up just then and read it twice over, and 4ageeza has got it right, YOU were the one who instigated it, not a 'suprise suprise AE86 person'
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Perhaps read it a few more times and try to find that elusive first reference to the handbrake.
haha You AE86 guys are amazing. I'll give you that. You guys seem to live in this world where everyone turns corners by going sideways...
Here's a bit of a peak into the reality of a non-AE86 driver:
If someone suggests that you use the handbrake to cure understeer, they get laughed at and told to go buy an AE86 for his fully siik dorifuto action. Or someone cracks a joke about spin turn knobs...
And yet, here we have 4ageeza suggesting the same thing and the AE86 guys don't even blink about it. Truly amazing. You guys are almost a species unto yourselves.
And you wonder why the rest of us ridicule you so much.
*Insert obligatory apologies to the AE86 owners who complain about being lumped in with the dorifuto crowd*
| joecoolmk2 wrote on Sun, 14 November 2004 13:02 |
what's a spin turn knob????
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Google is your friend.
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Well if you want to be picky on choice of words and context, then plain and simple, you were the first to ridicle the situation.
4ageeza was merely making the situation humorous ie. he was joking with:
"Enter corner...engage handbrake...turn...release handbrake...4ac power-on whilst countersteering...if fail, use clutch also"
and then he made light of the situation with a serious suggestion about Whitchy's question.
I find it just ghey with multiple aids  that 'spin turb knobs' was brought up and then the childish replys from others followed. ie. gianttomato's next reply.
I mean, are those comments really that funny? I mean, what is the intention of such a reply? To show how 'fully sick' (omfg why is this slang put into 'dorifto' etc, its just disgusting) you are against possibly new ae86 owners?
"haha You AE86 guys are amazing. I'll give you that. You guys seem to live in this world where everyone turns corners by going sideways... "
i certainly don't
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Location:
South Australia
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Mon, 15 November 2004 01:01
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This is a joke thread, right?
It certainly has lightened up my day!!!
Keep at it everyone, you really should consider a national tour.
By the way if you are having problems with understeer, by far and away the cheapest solution is to enter the corner slower! Not every car handles like a Lotus Exige and sometimes you have to exercise judgement to compensate for that.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Mon, 15 November 2004 01:22
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can understeer be savage?
i have never heard of a car that has "snap understeer" but it would be quite amusing.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Mon, 15 November 2004 01:32
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| FWDboy wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 12:01 |
By the way if you are having problems with understeer, by far and away the cheapest solution is to enter the corner slower!
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So far as i can tell, this comment is the only thing worth reading in this thread.
For the record, i thought the 'spin-turn' comment was pretty amusing
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2004
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Mon, 15 November 2004 02:27
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<-----gets a bucket of avgas to throw onto this rageing fire of hate
"im more takumi then u are!...no ur not....yes i am....no ur not..."
"i drift my mums front wheel drive better then you do...no u dont..................."
basic translation of this thread
i also find it annoying that simply by owning a "certain" type of vehicle people are constantly harrased by other dumb arse mofos who have a problem with something (impetance? hairy palms?) and just bag out other ppl who simply ask a question...why bother? ever considered buying a life (or a wife?)
saying that someone is not an enthusiast because they cut their springs is just uncalled for, what makes u the judge, (even though Keitchii himself cut his springs when he first started, guess hes some punk with no skills or enthusiasm ey) being 17-18 and poor is not a choice, just messing about with cars from a young age teaches u more then reading manuals and books (or being some sadsack gimp on forums and just abusing ppl who might not know as much as you) anyway it feels good to get things off ones chest...this feels like an anger management group
(and yes i do see the irony in me saying bad things about others while saying its not the right thing to do, i guess i do fit the stereotype of an 86 pilot in your eyes then..whatever ...but ill stand up for the other drivers who are just here to learn or whatever)
whitchy....to your innitial question...a few things can help you out....
1) your steering geometry is probably out as your car will be sitting too low....get some RCA's (roll center adjusters) from whiteline or whatever..they are cheap and easy to fit, and will increase the contact patch with the road on cornering making steering over bumps more predictable
2) talk to someone about the ammount of caster your car has, if the previous owner cut springs they probably wound in lots of caster making steering twitchy (proper wheel allighnment will fix this, make adjustments and see how u like it)
3) get proper springs/shocks
4) as has been said..tyres, ammount of tread doesent mean condition of tyre, i find bald tyres with soft compound grip lots more then ones with tread...like racing slicks...but dont drive on them in the wet, so you might consider swaping fronts to rears
5) rear sway bar / front tower brace help with corner exits and make understeer > oversteer transition more predictable
6) ae86slut is right...it is the trait of the chassis, the more suspention work i did the more she wanted to understeer, just buy everythign you can adjustable then you can tune your car as u like....starting with a front and rear swaybars (adjustable) will help the car to be predictable...even if it understeers\
finaly...if you are planing to keep your car...consider a 4age conversion...its the easiest one of the lot and will help to eliminate understeer, with a little more weight over the front wheels and more power at the rears
i hope that what i said helps...if you have no money i know it doesent but at least u can have a goal....sometimes you have to make sacrifices....the old 2 minute noodle diet over summer might help you save finds...im sure most of us have all suffered on the part of the car we drive....all you 86 owners im talking to u.....i know i have....drinking homebrew not corona , eating 2 min noodles, bah im rambling please excuse me, either way im waiting to cop it but ey...im leaving with a smile on my face 
the end
Adam
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Mon, 15 November 2004 02:56
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| Simon-AE86 wrote on Sat, 13 November 2004 02:27 |
Seriously now, what is acctually wrong with cutting one or two coils off a spring providing that excessive heat is not used, providing they are still captive and that you have shocks that can acctually handle the increased spring rate and decreased spring travel rate?
can anyone acctually give me an answer to that?
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yes. a spring, be it coiled or otherwise, has a certain stiffness.
if you make the spring shorter, then for a given deflection, it will push back more...
ie, when you reduce the length of a coiled spring by cutting off coils, you increase the rate, since now the metal of the spring deforms more for a given total spring deflection.
you effectively turn the spring into a 'short stroke' version, as free length is less, and loaded deflection is also less. and as was stated earlier, they can become non-captive.
most springs ends are either flat, or the coils change shape at each end, so when you cut it, you alter that shape, and you will get local points of very high stress on the spring mounts, which can lead to spring mount failure = baad mmkay.
as for swaybars, increase size of swaybar increases weight transfer to outside wheel, and thus can lead to loss of traction (on that outside wheel) sooner. increase front swaybar = understeer, increase rear swaybar = oversteer.
Cya, Stewart
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Location:
S.E suberbs, Vic
Registered:
December 2003
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Tue, 16 November 2004 21:48
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| oldcorollas wrote on Mon, 15 November 2004 13:56 |
yes. a spring, be it coiled or otherwise, has a certain stiffness.
if you make the spring shorter, then for a given deflection, it will push back more...
ie, when you reduce the length of a coiled spring by cutting off coils, you increase the rate, since now the metal of the spring deforms more for a given total spring deflection.
you effectively turn the spring into a 'short stroke' version, as free length is less, and loaded deflection is also less. and as was stated earlier, they can become non-captive.
most springs ends are either flat, or the coils change shape at each end, so when you cut it, you alter that shape, and you will get local points of very high stress on the spring mounts, which can lead to spring mount failure = baad mmkay.
as for swaybars, increase size of swaybar increases weight transfer to outside wheel, and thus can lead to loss of traction (on that outside wheel) sooner. increase front swaybar = understeer, increase rear swaybar = oversteer.
Cya, Stewart
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even if chopping the spring shorter does increase the rate, the worst thing I can see happening is that it sags due to stress. Sprinter and Corolla springs dont have a flat end instead they have an indent in the bottom seat for the spring which comes in on an angle. So by lowered the vehicle the spring comes in on a bit of a sharper angle, if its such a big deal a quick once over with a flapper wheel to take the edge off would solve the problem. I have been using chopped springs in my AE-71 for years and my sprinter for a while aswell, and last time I had a look at the bottom seats of my sprinter they were just fine, it is pretty thick metal afterall. ALso I have guides in my corolla to stop the spring falling out and short strokes in my sprinter. Also how is this different from short aftermarket springs? how do they not fall out if they are the same length and non progressive? I hear people bitching about chopped springs so much but they have yet to give me a reason that I accept why they are so bad.
What you guys are saying about the sprinter natural handling is strange to me, both mine and my friends sprinter in stock form had a natural overseer trait. Even after both of ours were modified they still had the same balance. I ended up setting the rear shockers to be disproportionally harder compared to the front to make it more neutral. I am not sure if this was the right apporach and I am still working out the suspension as I go. I want to add the braces after I have done the other main parts so I know for sure what it really does do.
As for anti-roll bars hasnt it been proven well over by Bill Sherwood and others that the standard ones are best?
Also seeing that this thread has been a bit harsh so far I would like to ask if you have a problem with what I say then tell me in a technical way why and not just attempt to insult me. This is a modifiers forum, not a bar. We should help each other here regardless of what car we have and I think that if you have an opinion on here and you cant go about it without saying it in an insulting way and without a reason why then you shouldnt be on here. Alright, anyway I posted somethng here to learn something so if anyone wants to discuss what I have said I am listening.
[Updated on: Wed, 17 November 2004 01:35]
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Tue, 16 November 2004 22:26
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I supported Toymods
Location:
I renounced punctuation
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Tue, 16 November 2004 22:33
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| Sam_Q wrote on Wed, 17 November 2004 08:48 |
even if chopping the spring shorter does increase the rate, the worst thing I can see happening is that it sags due to stress. Sprinter and Corolla springs dont have a flat end instead they have an indent in the bottom seat for the spring which comes in on an angle. So by lowered the vehicle the spring comes in on a bit of a sharper angle, if its such a big deal a quick once over with a flapper wheel to take the edge off would solve the problem. I have been using chopping springs in my AE-71 for years and my sprinter for a while aswell, and last time I had a look at the bottom seats of my sprinter they were just fine, it is pretty thick metal afterall. ALso I have guides in my corolla to stop the spring falling out and short strokes in my sprinter. Also how is this different from short aftermarket springs? how do they not fall out if they are the same length and non progressive? I hear people bitching about chopped springs so much but they have yet to give me a reason that I accept why they are so bad.
What you guys are saying about the sprinter natural handling is strange to me, both mine and my friends sprinter in stock form had a natural overseer trait. Even after both of ours were modified they still had the same balance. I ended up setting the rear shockers to be disproportionally harder compared to the front to make it more neutral. I am not sure if this was the right apporach and I am still working out the suspension as I go. I want to add the braces after I have done the other main parts so I know for sure what it really does do.
As for anti-roll bars hasnt it been proven well over by Bill Sherwood and others that the standard ones are best?
Also seeing that this thread has been a bit harsh so far I would like to ask if you have a problem with what I say then tell me in a technical way why and not just attempt to insult me. This is a modifiers forum, not a bar. We should help each other here regardless of what car we have and I think that if you have an opinion on here and you cant go about it without saying it in an insulting way and without a reason why then you shouldnt be on here. Alright, anyway I posted somethng here to learn something so if anyone wants to discuss what I have said I am listening.
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You must come from a parallel universe where your laws of physics are different to ours. Please do go on - I have already learnt one thing.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Savage Understeer
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Tue, 16 November 2004 22:33
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"if you have a problem with what I say then tell me in a technical way" + Mechanic Kittah =
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