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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Sat, 07 February 2004 15:07
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G'day all,
Some dramas with my ma70 supra powered by a 1jz - I've had the aircon regassed recently (gas fell out during conversion  )
and now with the aircon running the car will overheat/get hot on a hot (30oC+) day. Without the aircon it runs fine (same temp all day every day). Essentially this means I can't run the air-con on hot days - making it damn useless.
I've noticed the jza70 doesn't run a condensor fan like the ma70 did - could this be a problem?
I've "burped" the cooling system with no success and am running out of ideas. Have any jza70 or ma70/71 conversion owners noticed this. I am running a pretty stock 1jz manual , using the ma70 condensor and jza70 compressor.
Cheers,
Caelum
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Sat, 07 February 2004 19:58
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Hey mate, you should have asked me first! my air-con is being reconstructed, and all the new piping and condenser is back in.
Mine runs at 92C on 25-35C nights without the aircon on, obviously (as it is not fully functional). I noticed it did creep up a bit higher, during the day in 40C heat, again without the air-con on in city traffic to around 100C maybe a little higher.
I will definitely put a big fan on the air-con condenser as it will overheat during a hot day without it. This is easily done with a separate thermostat switch and thermo fan like the ones I have on my radiator.
I'll also mention that my radiator has been reconditioned, and a new water pump and thermostat has been put in, I also have 1 electric gauge on my MicroTech and one Autometer mechanical gauge measuring water temps.
If a large fan over the condenser does not work, then I guess it's time for a thicker aluminum radiator. But I hope that won't be the case.
I am also putting my oil cooler on when I buy the parts off you. That should help a bit too.
[Updated on: Sat, 07 February 2004 20:01]
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Sun, 08 February 2004 02:23
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you should probably try instlaling a condensor fan of some sort on the inlet side of the condensor
hopefully that will help with speeding up the cooling process and push away the hot ambient air around the condensor away from your radiator
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Sun, 08 February 2004 07:06
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I thought it was a bit odd that the jza-70 didn't have a condensor fan, but the ma70 did. It looks like I'll try to find a fan and wire it into the exisiting relay/ciruit which should be working.
I do have a new radiator (a cressida one since they couldn't supply a new jza70 one!) and the cooling system was pressure cleaned.
Cheers guys 
Danish - I didn't think your air-con was working yet!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Sun, 08 February 2004 12:33
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"(as it is not fully functional). "
hehe It should be by tommorow or tuesday I hope!
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Sun, 08 February 2004 12:50
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I am only guessing, as I didn't ever pay much attention to this side of things... but if I remember the number of cooling fans is actually dependant on whether the car is auto/manual.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Sun, 08 February 2004 13:56
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mine is auto, so im guessing if that made a difference i should've had more fans, but i only had one 6.5" and the clutch fan.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Sun, 08 February 2004 21:25
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Leigh you are corret, Manual MA7x Turbos did not have a condensor fan.
Lumpy - did you swap over the radiator from the front cut? if so did you have it cleaned out prior to installing it?
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Sun, 08 February 2004 22:45
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It has new radiator - I was using the front cut one for a while but the plastic top tank was cracked and it was very blocked. I took it to get cleaned and a replacement tank - but despite their earlier assurances the radiator place couldn't find a top tank to fit so I had to get a new radiator - it's a Cressida one from memory, but is exactly the same size and width as the jza70 one.
My car is also really sluggish off the line with the aircon running - it feels like a 4 cyl until it hits some boost. I expected a bit more drag but not to be this bad.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Mon, 09 February 2004 02:39
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are you 100% sure they're the same? Dimensions aside are they the same cores?
From memory the the turbo A70's ran a 3 row radiator but without verifying it for sure I'm probably wrong - I'll do a visual on my radiator this afternoon if you want?
Did you replace the thermostat? 1JZ-GTE's run an 82C thermostat, the same unit that's in the 2JZ-GTE. My 2JZ-GTE cooling temps were between 80-84C on the top outlet when it was on the dyno, and that's using the standard turbo A70 radiator.
Is the system getting air in it?
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Mon, 09 February 2004 03:08
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I just checked my operating temperature. 94C consistantly at cruising speed, at night on a warm night.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Mon, 09 February 2004 03:24
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Not sure if they're the same cores - the radiator place said it was but.... If you could have a look that'd be great. Is it the thickness that will tell me the differrence between 2 and 3 core?
I haven't replaced the thermostat - do you think a cooler one would be better in this situation? No air in the system from what I can see (ran the burp test for 20 mins with no foaming/frothing).
Without the aircon running it is always spot on temperature, about 1/3rd of the way up the temp dial.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Mon, 09 February 2004 07:02
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Stenno: I thought 1JZ thermostats were hotter than that? Like Danish my car sits on 93-94 degrees celcius.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Mon, 09 February 2004 07:42
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| Stenno wrote on Mon, 09 February 2004 07:25 |
Leigh you are corret, Manual MA7x Turbos did not have a condensor fan.
Lumpy - did you swap over the radiator from the front cut? if so did you have it cleaned out prior to installing it?
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If thats the case, then why does my AUTO ma70 not have any type of condensor fan. It only had the one 6.5" sucker.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Mon, 09 February 2004 21:07
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Caelum - Radiator is a 2 row item and about 30mm thick - I'll have to remeasure it as I was in a rush yesturday.
Skip - they both run an 82C thermostat with the same toyota PN. I used a digital thermometer with 1 of the probes running inside the top outlet whilst the car was on the dyno. Either the replacement thermostat I got from Toyota is lazy (opens too early) or the thermometer is waaaaay out (quite possible).
V8_MA61 - There are 3 fans on the radiator, the main clutch fan and 2 small electric fans used when the air con is on - on the auto turbo's there was another fan that was located in front of the condensor on the drivers side, you can't miss it - was yours a turbo or non turbo from the factory?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Tue, 10 February 2004 10:24
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non turbo auto. And it has ONE small fan on the inside.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Tue, 10 February 2004 10:29
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non turbo, there is the key word.
Turbo auto's had the fan infront of the condensor, manual turbo's did not. As for non turbo's..*shrugs* who cares 
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Tue, 17 February 2004 02:56
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Thank you to all for the advice, my radiator is about the same size as Stenno's, so I don't think it's that.
I've had plenty of opportunity to play around with the aircon during the weekend (on of the hottest ever in Adelaide!) and it seems to be the car is fine with the aircon running for a short period, then the temp starts to climb and climb. It's almost as thought it it's OK until it reaches a certain thermal load, then can't control it past that.
I've also noticed it gurgles through the overflow bottle after driving on a hot day (whether the aircon is on or not) so I'll try "burping" it again, perhaps on a steeper slope and for a longer time than previous.
Also, the Cressida radiator that's in it has a 0.9bar cap - should this be higher for the 1jz? What is the danger of running a 1.2 or 1.3 bar cap?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Tue, 17 February 2004 05:43
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running a higher cap pressure means you raise the boiling point. I can't remember the exact numbers, but for every psi of cap pressure you can add 3deg F to the boiling point.
Constant air in the system, could be the radiator cap, a 'tired' hose somewhere in the cooling system, heating system could have a leak, and the list goes on.
How old is the rad cap? I was running a .9bar cap for interests sake.
for interests sake, the Cresida radiator is a different part number to the Supra/Soarer radiator part number, even the cores run different numbers.
I wouldn't put it past the core being the problem, If you were in Sydney I'd loan you my radiator for testing purposes. I may know somebody in Adelaide who *might* have a turbo radiator you borrow, I will get back to you on this.
[Updated on: Tue, 17 February 2004 20:54]
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Tue, 17 February 2004 06:05
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Would that person be a certain 7m owning Danny T??
Because I've met him a few times and can give him a ring to see how generous he's feeling. The only forseeable problem may be that the shrould for the hydraulic fan may not fit onto it.
Bloody radiator place - promised the earth and then delivered something I didn't want because they stuffed it up. Plus they blew up my heater core when pressure cleaning the cooling system and flooded the interior!! The heater core/system has been looped out with a piece of hose.... until I can take the dash out and replace it. 
Radiator and radiator cap is less than 2 years old.
Thanks for the help Stenno.
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Registered:
March 2003
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
October 2003
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Tue, 17 February 2004 08:00
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Not sure if it'll help, but I may have a Cressida radiator for sale soon... 
Is there any difference between a GZ20 and an MZ20 radiator? ie the MZ20 radiator is larger? If so this may be a quick fix, must be a few front cuts and the like with excess radiators?
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Registered:
March 2003
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Tue, 17 February 2004 21:09
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Lumpy - Yep, that would be him . Ahh that stupid hydraulic fan :S that could pose a problem although the radiator top/bottom tanks *might* not be any different to a normal clutch fan radiator - you should be able to tell straight away if that's the case.
Something else just rang a bell - Are you running the plastic undercover? I did some testing a while back when I had the Anchor M in the car and cooling temps ran 10deg F warmer whilst cruising without the undercover installed.
Danish - GZ20 radiator cores are again a different core part number than the Turbo MZ20/MA70/JZA70 radiator cores - both yourself and Lumpy are having temp problems, and both of you are running non turbo cores - I know what I'd be replacing
As for running a thicker radiator, not always a wise move - you want air to actually flow through the core, throwing a big thicker intercooler infront of the radiator will only make matters worse.
I believe Skip is right - PWR do make an off the shelf alloy radiator for the A70 Supra/Z20 Soarer. I'd be looking into them or trying to source a turbo radiator - however by the time you buy 1 and have it cleaned out it could be worth the extra expense of getting a brand new alloy unit.
Food for thought
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Tue, 17 February 2004 21:49
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No worries. I'll give Danny a shout sometime soon - and we can directly compare radiators.
I am running the plastic underskirt as well - like your testing when I first put the 1jz and was testing it out it would get a fair bit warmer without the underskirt. I know these are important for generating the vacuum/airflow under the bonnet.
It'll be disppointing to have to replace the radiator - the bloody cressida one cost me $400 - almost halfway towards a decent aluminium one. I wasn't happy but didn't have much choice since my jza70 one couldn't be put back together.
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Wed, 18 February 2004 07:48
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I don't have an undertray! RPM stole it and forgot to put it back on. I know who I will be calling tomorow. I hope they didn't bloody throw it out.
Are you sure they are different sizes? The old 1G was turbo.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Thu, 19 February 2004 02:02
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Adding insult to injury the bloody thing has sprung a coolant leak somewhere now as well - looks like it's around the water-pump area. Just more things to do on the weekend.
Hopefully the air-con/cooling system will all be fixed in time for winter  . When I have to pull the dash out and replace the heater core. 
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Thu, 19 February 2004 11:30
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UNFUNKING BELIEVEABLE!!!!! 
I was working on my car tonight, trying to find the source of the coolant leak, when I noticed something jammed between the sump and the plastic underskirt. It looked like a pulley??? So I undid the underskirt to find the outer rim/pulley part of my crankpulley/harmonic balancer!!!!!!
It has sheared off completely around the rubber section of the harmonic balancer. Funnily enough, the seperpentine belt is still running, the alternator and power steering pump work fine as the belt is still running around the rubber stump of what's left of the harmonic balancer/crankpulley.
This may explain why it's overheating when the air-con's running - it's probably not running the hydraulic fan all that well!!
Thankfully the pulley didn't fly off through radiator. Is the 1jz always this bloody tough?!!
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Thu, 19 February 2004 12:08
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Hah! Oh jeebus! w00t!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Thu, 19 February 2004 12:45
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Funny thing that.
Just happened to a mate of mine who has done a manual conversion, but we figured that the harmonic balancer from the manuals was tougher than the one in the auto's. (We both drive JZA70's)
I'm doing a manual conversion to, so we both ordered new crank pulleys to make sure it doesn't happen again.
Undoubtably, this is one of the weaker parts of the 1JZ! I don't really have much of an idea what causes it but would like to know ..
Coincindently, this also happened to another mate of mine who drives a MK4 2JZ not too long ago ...
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Thu, 19 February 2004 12:47
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So what actually happens, and where? Is it initially visible before it happens? Does anyone have any pictures of what to look out for?
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Thu, 19 February 2004 22:30
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Dansih,
I'll show you the remains of mine when you come around. Now I have to find another one...
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Thu, 19 February 2004 23:32
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| lumpy wrote on Thu, 19 February 2004 22:30 |
UNFUNKING BELIEVEABLE!!!!!
I was working on my car tonight, trying to find the source of the coolant leak, when I noticed something jammed between the sump and the plastic underskirt. It looked like a pulley??? So I undid the underskirt to find the outer rim/pulley part of my crankpulley/harmonic balancer!!!!!!
It has sheared off completely around the rubber section of the harmonic balancer. Funnily enough, the seperpentine belt is still running, the alternator and power steering pump work fine as the belt is still running around the rubber stump of what's left of the harmonic balancer/crankpulley.
This may explain why it's overheating when the air-con's running - it's probably not running the hydraulic fan all that well!!
Thankfully the pulley didn't fly off through radiator. Is the 1jz always this bloody tough?!!
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Hmmmm, yummy. You are right, lucky no damage done
Cheers
Michael B
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Thu, 19 February 2004 23:59
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I have got another Harmonic Balancer on the way - now to see if this was the problem or the radiator. I've got access to a jza70 radiator, so I'll measure mine and the jza70 one to compare.
The coolant leak (adding insult to injury) is around the thermostat housing area.
With the balancer fixed, the leak fixed and all new coolant (the top of the range stuff) we'll see if the air-con still makes it overheat. Luckily the weather in Adelaide is a bit cooler this weekend - meaning fewer complaints from the missus about the aircon.
And talking to a few people, apparently it's a common fault on the 1jz's.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2002
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 Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Fri, 20 February 2004 01:49
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Hmmm. Your harmonic balancer outer section comes off completely, and fails to go through the radiator, or break anything else critical AND the belt stays on, staving off any major engine damage.
A small piece of underbonnet insulation comes loose in my car, the turbo ingests the whole bit and suffs it through the motor, wrecking it.
Where is the justice in that Lumpy?
There is no god.
PS-now you know what that rattling noise was mate, and why it wouldn't do it the other night.......
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Fri, 20 February 2004 02:14
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Yes but.... The water leak was coming from my waterpump, thus necessitating replacement - another $100 spent!!! 
So really I had two car problems, but you only had one (complete engine failure)
I know it's wrong of me to whinge!!! And I'm not! I just couldn't believe the BELT STAYED ON!  More arse than class.
Have you had a chance to sift through the remains yet? It's possible the worst engine story ever. I think it means god wants you keep trying but with a bigger turbo next time. And on the bright side, your 4-link rear suspension hung together OK.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Fri, 20 February 2004 09:30
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| MS-75 wrote on Fri, 20 February 2004 12:49 |
A small piece of underbonnet insulation comes loose in my car, the turbo ingests the whole bit and suffs it through the motor, wrecking it.
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And that is why they invent air filters. Unlucky yes, but totally preventable in the first place, live and learn.
Lumpy - Interesting outcome, you'll find out soon enough if it cures your temp problems, best of luck with it.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Sat, 21 February 2004 13:36
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Ummm... the following is a bit embarassing
I had the harmonic balancer replaced, as well as the water pump/engine fan pump on Friday (the water pump was a BIG job - you virtually have to take the timing belt off to get to it)
When the mechanic (manys thanks to Greg - absolute champ!) put all the harmonic balancer etc back together he noticed the fan wasn't pushing much air. We bled the fan pump etc, but it didn't really help. So I compared my fan output with another 1jz conversion and his fan was pushing heaps more air. We were trying to figure it out when he said "It's like the fan control computer isn't working" - at which point I thought "what f**king fan computer"!!!! I couldn't recall installing it...... apparently it controls the fan speed on the 1jz, increasing as the temp increases for more cooling effect. D'oh!
Then, just as I was thinking where I could get a computer from, a fellow Supra owner (Danny T) found it still attached to the dashboard from my half-cut when he was looking at some of my parts for sale!!!! Now I just have to wire the bloody thing in. Also, I may need to change to a jza70 radiator since my Cressida radiator is missing a sensor in the bottom of it. Is this important to the fan control, or does it take it's input from the thermostat?
Whoops! I was so proud how neat my conversion is...
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Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Sat, 21 February 2004 18:17
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Ah that must explain alot for you then!
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Sun, 29 February 2004 04:31
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Now that I've fixed it.....
It was as simple as;
1. Find plug from engine loom that fits fan computer socket (note that it says "not used" in my handwriting!!)
2. Plug computer in.
3. Marvel at high speed air rushing through the engine bay from fan.
I don't have the bottom of the radaitor temp sensor connected, which seems to mean it's on high all the time but my temp remains constant (doesn't get too cold). However when the aircon is on the car no longer overheats. Ta Da!!
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Sun, 29 February 2004 23:05
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Come to think of it my fan is not pushing all that much air as well  shame shame shame!
So where is this computer located Lumpy? Dash wise..
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Mon, 01 March 2004 00:08
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Nevermind, had a look on the EPC to where it is, above the ECU sorta. Will have to check that tonight.
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Mon, 01 March 2004 02:16
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Mine in the left corner of the dash, actually tucked into the side part of the dashboard. It was kind of "around the corner" from the glovebox which is why we didn't notice it.
Made a big difference to the volume of air going through the radiator etc.
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Location:
Australia
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Mon, 01 March 2004 02:17
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Good to hear you got the problem sorted out!
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Location:
Adelaide, SA
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Mon, 01 March 2004 02:46
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Thanks to your good eyesight! 
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Location:
Armidale
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Mon, 13 December 2004 21:49
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Hey Lumpy (or HKS_TRD),
What half-cut was your 1JZ out of? And what was written on the fan computer box?
The reason I ask is that I am trying to work out the wiring for my fan computer in my 1JZed Cressida. I spent about a month looking around the glove-box for a controller, and eventually found a box marked "Cooling Fan" over above the drivers side kick panel
Being over there, the wiring is more part of the 'body' harness than engine, so I can seem myself having to strip wiring from it and integrate it into the Cressida loom
I have similar issues with the power steering control, but that's another problem My half-cut is a JZX81 (I'm assuming it was a Chaser).
Any help is appreciated
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Location:
Armidale
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Wed, 15 December 2004 07:13
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Hmmm ... maybe I should have started a new thread ...
oh, and bump ...
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
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Wed, 15 December 2004 10:10
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Well in my JZA70 the plug was part of the engine loom that came though the firewall.
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Re: 1jz ma70 overheating when air-con running
