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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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 urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 07:19
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Hi Guys
I have a pressing issue that has just happened to my girlfriend.
On monday she sold her Honda Integra to another person.
they paid her with 2 bank cheques, 1 to pay out her loan on the car, and 2 to pay the difference, between the loan and how much she recieved.
they also signed a piece of paper to say that they take ownership of the car for the agreed price, and they also signed the transfer of registration slip.
she gave the cheques to the bank on tuesday, to which they are now in the process of being cleared.
on wednesday the guy got pulled over and the car got defected.
they have rung her up saying that they will cancel the bank cheques, and will pursue for her to fix up the issues that the car has.
they believe they are in the right and a soliciter has said this to them as well, under the premise that she sold a car to them that was already illegal, and she didn't tell them all these things about it. it is apparently her responsibility to make the car road worthy before she sells it to anyone.
i have done a heap of ringing around today as well to find out where she stands, including the bank they are going through for the loan, the legal advice hotline and many other parties, and they all are telling me the same thing. Once that cheque was put into her hands, the car is their responsibility, buyer beware.
so if anyone can help me out here with who is responsible, can you please help.
from what i am aware she never mislead them in any of her dealings, but they are saying she did.
can they pull the cheque out before it clears?
is she liable?
are they completely responsible?
help please.
are there any lawyers out there able to let me know where my girlfriend stands?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 08:15
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id tell them to get fucked and say ill see you in court cause its their responsibility to check the car over before purchase. If they thought it was suss, or dont know much about other cars then they should have gotten an inspector to give the car a once over for them. The fact that they didnt shows they were satisfied with their own appraisal of the vehicles condition and proceeded with the sale.
They may indeed been defected...but
1. its after the sale took place hence its legally their property at the time of the offence and their problem.
2. how can they prove that the defect wasnt due to something they did to the car after the point of sale. I wouldnt mind betting that it was and they just dont wanna pay for it.
Stick it out buddy. If the cheques bounce then its straight to the cops with all the info youve got on them. If you sold it fairly soon after gettin rego for it then you can use the rego check slip to prove your point that the car has only recently passed a roadworthy and was quite legal at the time of sale. IMO youve got the winning cards.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 08:26
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What did the car get defected for?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 08:28
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I had a similar incident where the day after I bought my car, it wasn't defected, but I wound up with a $600 repair bill. In the heat of the moment, being rather pissed off I was chatting away to my mechanic about dumping the car back on his doorstep, put the keys in his letter box and cancel the cheque.
My mechanic told me that as soon as the rego papers had been signed, the car was now MY(or in your case THEIR) responsibility. Since I was(legally) in possesion of the vehichle, if I was to cancel the cheques it would be a criminal offence.
Anyway I calmed down, got the part fixed(I paid for it), and it's the best car I've ever owned since. It's just one of those things, and the people that bought your gf's car should realise that. It was their responsibility to find out it's roadworthyness, although I have to admit it's a little unlucky, and if you look at it from their side you'd feel hard done by.
All this said I would find a solicitor to go and talk too...just to cover you back. Until you have a legal(letter) demand, dont do anything the other party wants. Just cash the cheque, they have the car, and you have your money. Just to be safe I wouldn't spend any of it until this matter sorts itself out.
Anyway I'll end my ramblings there, but I reckon you are in the right(legally), although it's a little rough the people that bought the car have a defected vehicle....
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 08:52
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im pretty sure you should be in the clear. once it has transferred its a done deal. and as far as them cancelling the cheques, if they do that straight to the cops as and report it as fraud.
when buying a car privatley its pretty much caveat emptor. if you want recourse as far as warranty and roadworthyness then you buy from a dealer.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 11:05
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the car was defected for having excessively large rims (they were 18"), she informed them of the rim size before they handed over the cheques
it had a sticker over the front of the windscreen that blocked the vision, she actually offered to have that removed before she sold the vehicle and he said no
it was too low, she said when she bought the car she had the same issue when she was replacing the tyres on it and got it raised by the mechanic/tyre place, so she was under the assumption it was of proper height when she sold it (she said she had raised the car to them in other words)
and the tinting too dark, which all she said was that she had it tinted.
she has already cashed the cheques, (i think they were bank cheques as the issuer was the 'Police credit union' all nicely typed) but they haven't cleared yet.
she says she hasn't misled them at all and has even mentioned other things wrong with the car (arial and windows for instance needing a bit of a grease up as they go slow/make noise).
there were witnesses all around when all things were signed.
the problem is they have spoken to a solicitor and they believe she is responsible for selling them a road worthy car, and they are responsible for making it road worthy now.
but everyone i have spoken to has said buyer beware, it is their responsibility once money has been exchanged.
i believe the cheques cash in tomorrow morning at 9:00 assuming they didn't ring up today and try and cancel them.
she doesn't wan't the car back either as she has her rather nice soarer now.
so if they try and get the cheques cancelled and dump the car on her doorstep again, where does she stand?
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Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 12:01
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does that mean they can't stop the cheque because of them now wanting the car to be complianced as a reason?
i believe when loans are taken out you have to have the car insured and they have spoken to their insurance agency who have said they won't insure it until it is complienced, does this have a bearing on proceedings?
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 12:12
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their problem not yours... cheque should be honoured unless the bank (police credit union) stops it - and they'll have to make a declaration as to why the cheque should be stopped (e.g. lie).
as for insuring it, it should be roadworthy not complianced (factory or importer did that years ago when car was made or imported) - again their problem not yours
they should have thought about roadworthiness (e.g. requested to see a new/recent roadworthy certificate or inspection certificate or whatever you call them in SA) before buying the car.
these are two separate issues - your concern is being paid for the car, theirs is sounding like they can't get insurance and finance - they're not related at all.
If they want their money back they'll have to sell the car now.
They could have told you this first - but their fatal mistake was to behave like a tool a day or two after purchase and get busted by the local plod - then compounding by approaching you the wrong way.
... sounds like a bunch of retards bought your GF's car.
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Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 12:16
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always put sold "AS IS"
well on ebay anyways
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 12:33
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am not sure how the 'implied" or statutory warranties affect private car sales... maybe a real lawyer could look that up - the Trade Practices Act covers commercial activities (federally) and each state has specific laws relating to different trade areas and kinds of markets (e.g. new car delaers, 2nd-hand car dealers, private car sales, car auctions, etc).
In the case of Qld private sales, the registered car need only have the statutory safety certificate and the rego has to be current as of the sale date.
Anything else is a matter between seller and buyer - any conditions or information must be clear and explicit (e.g. the seller says or admits when questioned) that a part of car is illegal or unroadworthy. If a buyer does not ask, and the seller does not admit (knowingly or not) about a spcific issue then there is nothing to be inferred.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 12:48
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well both my GF and the person signed a piece of paper that said that they take possession of the car so i wonder if that is enough, that and the disposal of registration they both signed as well i suppose.
i think their issue is more that they want her to pay for the modifications to make it roadworthy again.
but yeah she just wants the money for it and to forget about the car.
well we'll wait to see if the money clears tomorrow morning and go to the motor vehicles registration to let them know the situation (apparently the form that she retained is enough to transfer ownership so we will attempt to transfer ownership to their name that way as the other guys are refusing to go to the motor registration at the moment).
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 13:10
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...what a bunch of losers... if they had asked politely, would you have considered the request differently?
the bit of paper is the contract between both parties to buy/sell the car for sum of X dollars - dont loose it. The rego forms only confirms that they take over the rego (and associated 3rd party insurance) from day of signing - it doesn't usually cover ownership.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 13:27
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if the money dose not clear go to the cops and report the car stolen, as they then have not payed for the car. in my opion i would never hand over my keys to my car untill the cheque has cleard because what happens if they take the car and then do a runner because they know there is no money in the bank.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 13:31
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mate if you stall them then they wont have time to cancel the cheque anyway. thats the first thing. secondly no matter what, it is the buyers responsibility to ensure that the car is road worthy before purchase.
the only issue with respect to your GF is that she should have a moral obligation to advise of possible defects but then again she can play the innocent and dumb "I'm a girl, what do i know" line... but other than the moral obligation she has no legal obligation to advise of defects.
if she had a car yard then she would have a lagal obligation to advise of defects or possibilities there of. also go to your roads and traffic authority in SA andd they should have a brochure about buying a used car. in SYD they do, it contains things like what to look for in a used car and who is reponsible for what once transaction made
but at the end of the day it is their problem! dont worry bout it and as for the LAWYER remark MEHH!!!! do you know how many times iv used it to get things done? it doesnt mean i have... its more a threat than anything else
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 13:50
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well she mentioned all the things she knew about the car anyway including the defectable items before they even agreed to purchase it.
i'll sit tight, and speak to transport sa tomoz.
thanks guys, i will let you know
hopefully all will be fine.
and assuming they haven't already attempted to pull the cheque, it should clear by open of business today (28th) so finger's crossed.
personally i feel for the boy that bought it, he was all eager and was looking forward to getting his ideal car, if i was in the father's shoes i would be looking out for my son as well any way i can, but to do this will just make him more upset than he probably already is, it would be less pain on all if the father was kind and decent and offered to do the things for the boy's car to make it roadworthy again...but that would be wishful thinking on our behalf.
ah well sleepless night for me.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 14:28
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i found this...the motor vehicles act of south australia
http://www.parliament.sa.gov.au/Catalog/legislatio n/Acts/M/1959.53.un.htm
it's fairly dry
of particular notice is section 142a and sections 56 to 58
57a says transport sa can put him as the owner
58 might be the hairy one as it says the registrar can refuse transferral of ownership pending investigations to verify it is roadworthy
it gets really confusing however as in SA you don't have to provide evidence of roadworthyness, and that is the responsibility of the purchaser to determine roadworthyness by whatever means they desire.
but is this separate to purchasing a vehicle and transferring ownership?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 23:00
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one of the cheques cleared, the one for the loan, so that is all closed and finalised according to the bank, the other one (that is the difference between finalising the loan and what she got for the car) still hasn't cleared yet.
so the one i was worried about has gone through.
now off to legal aid again to find out our position.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 27 January 2005 23:36
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apparently, they will take an avenue that she misrepresented the car...but she tolkd them everything before they bought it and they had opportunity to have someone come and inspect the vehicle.
ah man this is getting hairy now.
we have to wait to see if we get a letter from aa solicitor now pretty much.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Fri, 28 January 2005 01:29
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is only hairy for them - you've got most of their money, they've signed for the car, they had the opportunity.
did you take you rego transfer in to process? or are they stopping you from lodging it?
i think once the second cheque clears it's all over - plus if they keep contacting you, reply with a complaint about harrasment.
is weird that SA has such strict engineering and vehicle inspections, yet you can sell a car without any safety certification? this is not unlike NSW? (tho they have yearly pit inspections too?)
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Fri, 28 January 2005 02:04
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she took the form into the motor rego today, they are able to say he is the owner of the vehicle from the date/time of purchase but the guy can't transfer full registration over to himself until it has been deemed roadworthy (which it would have been if it wasn't defected according to the motor transport authority).
but the motor rego told her that they will take care of it and she doesn't have to do anything.
i am expecting the father to ring tonight, should be interesting...all i can say is that she has been honest and they signed the docco.
ah well wait and see i spose.
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Location:
Adelaide SA
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Wed, 09 March 2005 15:10
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ring me for legal advice
0421422971
kristy
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Location:
no where
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 10 March 2005 11:24
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TELL THE GUY ... BUYER BEWARE ASSHOLE
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Location:
no where
Registered:
November 2004
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 10 March 2005 11:28
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SHOULDVE got the money off them first
! everyone learns...... prick was probably doin sumthin stooopid and they caught him and defected him..could say all those mods were neva on it !  
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Location:
Bayside Melbourne.
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: urgent legal help required about selling a car (SA)
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Thu, 10 March 2005 12:03
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Was the car sold registered? If so, the car must be sold with a roadworthy certificate.* If it was sold with a roadworthy certificate then their beef is with the roadworthy tester not your sister.
If the car was unroadworthy but you have the certificate to say it was then it is the fault of the tester because he issued a false document. Your sister is not a licenced tester and be expected to know more than what the official documentation states.
This is my take on the situation and may or may not be correct. It is to be read as is.
*I am assuming that your laws are similar to Victoria's.
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