| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
|
|
most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Tue, 01 February 2005 06:58
|
 |
hey guys, im just wondering if a few people could post up dyno sheets or just let me know what power figures you have received from you turbo 4a's!, im just curious to see who has the most powerfull 4AGTE on toymods!
thanks
Juzzo
|
|
|
Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Tue, 01 February 2005 06:59
|
|
i think yogi might be the one, but i was thinking from more of the home mechanic/budget side of the fence on this one!!! 
|
|
|
Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Tue, 01 February 2005 07:00
|
|
yogi currently has the most powerfull AFAIK at over 300@RW but i dont think hes likely to show you his dyno graph anytime soon 
|
|
|
Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Tue, 01 February 2005 07:05
|
|
|
any reason for not wanting to show it??
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 02:29
|
|
ke382tg: I agree with everything you said there.
See my sig 
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 05:12
|
|
| ke382TG wrote on Wed, 02 February 2005 09:41 |
How about "Who has the highest trap speed over the quarter" as a show of who has the most HP.
|
Well, maybe because quater mile time is not simply a function of engine power. There are loads of other variables, like weight, suspension setup, transmission.
Just because a car has a faster quater mile time doesn't mean it is more powerful, just like it doesn't mean it will be faster on the street or on the track. It just means it is a better drag car.
So if the purpose of this thread is to figure out what configuration of a 4AG will produce the most power, dyno comparisons make more sense than quater mile times, as they eliminate as many independent variables as possible.
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 05:29
|
|
| Quote: |
ke382TG wrote on Wed, 02 February 2005 09:41
How about "Who has the highest trap speed over the quarter" as a show of who has the most HP.
Well, maybe because quater mile time is not simply a function of engine power. There are loads of other variables, like weight, suspension setup, transmission.
Just because a car has a faster quater mile time doesn't mean it is more powerful, just like it doesn't mean it will be faster on the street or on the track. It just means it is a better drag car.
So if the purpose of this thread is to figure out what configuration of a 4AG will produce the most power, dyno comparisons make more sense than quater mile times, as they eliminate as many independent variables as possible.
|
Aarrrh I said trap speed not quarter mile ET 
I know what configuration of the 4AGTE will produce the most power, the one with the owner who is prepared to talk the most BS
We would have to have a 4AGTE dyno day (same day, same dyno, accurately calibrated yada yada yada) to make the values comparable as I have seen some large variances on the same car between different dynos.
Then there is just the plain old BS factor with which people fudge figures (good for when a dodgey arse tuner wants to make it look like they did a fantastic job etc) which is very very easy to do, hell I can get a 450rwkw printout from my 4AGTE if you like
I do understand where you are coming from with your comment, even though you misunderstood what I said
But I would get a hell of a lot more value from comparing trap speeds (for power) than dyno charts on this forum. Too much BS floating around and too many different dyno runs.
You can calculate your hp from your trap speed too, it is actually quite accurate. Google a few drag racing sites and some will have a calculator for it.
| Quote: |
There are loads of other variables, like weight, suspension setup, transmission
|
Yes there are loads of variables, the dyno and the operator can add two more
Cheers.
Oh yeah, my car is just as fast on the street as on the track too, because I don't change anything around and I got grip 
[Updated on: Wed, 02 February 2005 05:53]
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 05:59
|
|
|
Oh (back on track), and of the "backyard budget" 4AGTE's I know of one in Canberra that has made over 200rwkw on 19psi. I think that the smaller budget guys will generally be sub 220rwkw from what I have seen around the place. Which is bloody impressive from a 1.6L easy to drive street car.
|
|
|
Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 06:02
|
|
you all have good points, so i spose its a hard question to answer as every dyno/operator is different! maybe we should just let this one die!!
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 06:09
|
|
nahh, just change it to highest trap speed
tho times are heavily affected by traction etc, once it hooks up, (unless it doesn't) trap speed is still a good indicator.
if ppl don't get traction on a drag strip, then they are wasting their time anyway  .. if you can't get grip on a sticky track, whats the point of having that much power on the street?..
oh wait.. dyno queens heh heh
Cya, Stewart
|
|
|
Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 06:11
|
|
|
OK then we will carry it on! OK...let see the track results!
|
|
|
Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
Location:
NSW, East Coast
Registered:
July 2003
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 08:25
|
|
Dont forget the JEM AE86, http://www.justenginemanagement.com/myae86.html
Although he doesnt visit here much (i believe he used too).
Since the Jamboree he has made a some changes and turned his dyno wheels up too 270rwkw (i think it was 270)then the motor died. And for WIF, his dyno doesnt lie?
Just my 2c worth.
Cheers
Steve
|
|
|
Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 10:25
|
|
i got his old setup on mine now which he ran an 11.6 pass with.
i dont think quarter mile times are good at all. im sure people with less power than myself could pull a better time simply cause i drive my car easy, i mean i still got the stock diff and its been through over a year of gze and the same of gte! if someone is willing to thrash their car more than myself they will get a better time no trouble. the BEST way is to compare on the same dyno, same day. so make sure you all rock up to dyno day next time
|
|
|
Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 10:41
|
|
but trap speeds have nothing to do with ET.
you don't have to thrash your car to get a good ET, only to improve your reaction and 60 foot times. after the first part of thr ttrack, it's purely horsepower and that is what gives you TRAP SPEED.
even dynos on same day are not accurate.. take the last dyno day for example... and the one before that etc etc... dynos are a tuning TOOL. and nothing more... even engine dynos are not 100% accurate OR repeatable... there are far too many variables..
|
|
|
Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 10:50
|
|
|
they are good enough. in shootout mode on the same day they will be pretty close. i mean stuff like the air temp, humidity etc arent gonna change a whole lot, so youll get a pretty good idea.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 12:33
|
|
| ke382TG wrote on Wed, 02 February 2005 16:29 |
Aarrrh I said trap speed not quarter mile ET
...
I do understand where you are coming from with your comment, even though you misunderstood what I said
|
Yeah, I misread your post.
| ke382TG wrote on Wed, 02 February 2005 16:29 |
But I would get a hell of a lot more value from comparing trap speeds (for power) than dyno charts on this forum. Too much BS floating around and too many different dyno runs.
You can calculate your hp from your trap speed too, it is actually quite accurate. Google a few drag racing sites and some will have a calculator for it.
|
I agree with you that it is a lot harder to fake than a dyno, and that you don't get the usual effects of different dynos giving different results.
On the other hand though, in order to figure out the amount of power at the wheels accurately, you'd need to know the CdA, Crr and weight of the vehicle. (So I guess those calculators assume the same CdA and Crr for all cars. Or perhaps the aerodynamic and friction losses are insignificant compared to the kinetic energy of the vehicle.)
If you wanted to know power at the flywheel, you'd also need to guestimate the drivetrain losses.
And even then, you could only really figure out the average power over the run, rather than the peak power over the motor. In fact, that might be a good thing anyway, as it might encourage more usable power curves.
Then you probably need to factor in altidute / pressure and temperature, which all have a bearing on the power the motor would make too.
So... what's the point? I think you're right, comparing trap speeds is probably more accurate than comparing different dynos. At the same time, there is still some inaccuracy involved when comparing trap speeds.
[Updated on: Wed, 02 February 2005 12:44]
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 14:43
|
|
Yep, agreed. Trap speed, whilst not the overall final factor, is much closer to a "real figure" than a dyno. Lets face it, nobody is going to put a 4AGTE in a 1500kg car and disadvantage themselves so badly, we are all quoting figures for cars in the 920-1100kg range, so comparing MPH on the 1/4 is a pretty good representation of the AVERAGE power that we make.
Power at the flywheel is completely irrelevant, but having said that, our drivetrain losses should all be similar anyway, unless you have a front wheel drive perhaps, I dont know too much about their drivetrain losses. As we all seem to drive cars of the same era (KE corollas, TA/RA celicas, sprinters etc) coefficient of drag/friction should be of little difference too.
BTW: Last outing to the 1/4 mile track saw 108mph for my car too, at 1065kg plus driver  Hoping to better that on the 16th. Put your money in your mouth, and be there too!
Phil
|
|
|
Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 22:57
|
|
hey guys,
i dont have a 4agte (rather a 1ggte) but as far as the trap speed discussion goes.....
i took my car to wsid for its first 1/4 mile runs.
i ran 13.8, 13.1, 13.1, 12.7, then 12.5
over a second in difference between best and worst...
but my slowest trap speed was 108.9 and my fastest 110.9 so very little difference cosidering the difference in times.
aside of this, when comparing cars power based on mph.... do you have to take weight into the equation?
i would assume so, but thought i'd ask anyway.
Cheers
Stew
|
|
|
Location:
brisvegas
Registered:
August 2004
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 02 February 2005 23:23
|
|
|
after the headwork, bigport cams, and a tune, my GZE AE86 (soon to be GTE) has run 102mph trap speed..sotck it ran consecutive 96.2's..so i'm est that it's somewhere around 250hp engine?? figuring on a 950kg car?? anyone agree?
|
|
|
Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Thu, 03 February 2005 00:17
|
|
TE72 TURBO: I worked out that you have 245rwhp or 184rwkw if you weigh about 70kg
HP = (MPH/234)^3 X weight.
weight is in lbs.
^3 is cubed
|
|
|
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Thu, 03 February 2005 00:38
|
|
| Quote: |
TE72 TURBO: I worked out that you have 245rwhp or 184rwkw if you weigh about 70kg
HP = (MPH/234)^3 X weight.
weight is in lbs.
^3 is cubed
|
.....and that is pretty damn close to what he has recorded on the dyno.
|
|
|
Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Thu, 03 February 2005 02:55
|
|
| ke382TG wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 11:38 |
| Quote: |
TE72 TURBO: I worked out that you have 245rwhp or 184rwkw if you weigh about 70kg
HP = (MPH/234)^3 X weight.
weight is in lbs.
^3 is cubed
|
.....and that is pretty damn close to what he has recorded on the dyno.
|
So in this case the dyno was reading accurately then. Good stuff
Using this formula, I have worked out that in my car I will need about 400rwhp to run at 125mph. Which I think should be close to a 10 second pass if there is traction. All theoretical bullshit I know, but you can't do much when your car has been in the garage for 8 months!
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Thu, 03 February 2005 05:10
|
|
To answer your original question, im not sure but mine has 177.8 rwkw
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Thu, 03 February 2005 09:31
|
|
| Quote: |
TE72 TURBO: I worked out that you have 245rwhp or 184rwkw if you weigh about 70kg
|
ChrisDavey, i'm damn impressed!  That is within 3hp of what it recorded on the dyno, and I wish I weighed 70kg but thats not far off.
So when will your beast next leave the garage?
I can't wait for the 16th.... The new car is 100kg lighter Keep your fingers crossed for a nice cool night.
|
|
|
Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
|
|
|
Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Fri, 04 February 2005 21:46
|
|
| TE72_Turbo wrote on Thu, 03 February 2005 20:31 |
| Quote: |
TE72 TURBO: I worked out that you have 245rwhp or 184rwkw if you weigh about 70kg
|
I can't wait for the 16th.... The new car is 100kg lighter Keep your fingers crossed for a nice cool night.
|
what did you do, give the girlfriend the flick!!???!! 
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Sat, 05 February 2005 00:48
|
|
haha. 100kg dude? I'd hope they were TWINS for that!!!
Nah, I just lost two doors, rear seats, and a lot of glass.
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Fri, 15 April 2005 08:09
|
|
I made 205.8rwkw today.
For those who said i couldnt make over 200rwkw,
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Fri, 15 April 2005 10:50
|
|
nice work
So whats the updated specs?
|
|
|
Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Fri, 15 April 2005 13:53
|
|
very nice
specs and pics
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Sun, 17 April 2005 23:03
|
|
On the dyno variable thing, at a recent dyno day here in Canberra, a couple of guys from another dyno shop came around with a car they had just run. The two different brands of dyno, at different shops which had never been compared before, gave figures within 1% of each other.
It might have been just chance or that one car, but, I was very impressed.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Sun, 17 April 2005 23:26
|
|
|
interestingly enough, on my car's previous tune, I had 3 dyno runs at 3 differnet places (croydon, MRC, and the toymods old dyno place). The total variance in HP was about 3rwkw - which tends to tell me that if the operators are good, the dynos should all be very close to each other.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2003
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Mon, 18 April 2005 00:29
|
|
| draven wrote on Mon, 18 April 2005 09:26 |
interestingly enough, on my car's previous tune, I had 3 dyno runs at 3 differnet places (croydon, MRC, and the toymods old dyno place).
|
You had it tuned at Croydon?  , i wouldnt let croydon tune my ride on lawn mower .
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Mon, 18 April 2005 01:07
|
|
|
indeed. One of my previous threads expressed exactly how happy I was with the tune. Suffice to say there's a reason I got it re-tuned. (The ever-so-helpful guys at microtech recommended the croydon guys to tune my car )
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
fairfield NSW
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Mon, 18 April 2005 01:13
|
|
|
my 4agte should be going onto a dyno within the month. i'll keep you all posted on the results.
|
|
|
Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Tue, 19 April 2005 06:57
|
|
fatmr2, what turbo and what boost?
my last dyno run i made 174RWKW, but my wastegate actuator was ripped and the boost spiked and dropped. that 174KW was low in the revs when the boost was good, id be very supprised if i didnt make over 200RWKW's with a steady 18psi nowdays.
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Tue, 19 April 2005 07:06
|
|
|
GT28. Runs 1.6 bar
|
|
|
Location:
cambo
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Tue, 19 April 2005 07:29
|
|
|
nice. i bet that turbo spools up a bit earlier than mine too. jealous
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Tue, 19 April 2005 07:54
|
|
what spec GT28? The usual drop in replacement for the S15 silvias, or one with bigger trim wheels?
|
|
|
Location:
western sydney
Registered:
February 2005
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Tue, 19 April 2005 09:02
|
|
damn im starting to make a mess in my pants, seeing that there are a few of you guys out there now making 200 odd rwk. makes me wanna finish my project asap. are you guys running built motors though or standard?.
200 rwkw in my lil 600 kg datto. hmmmm gotta go. 
lol cheers
|
|
|
Location:
sydney
Registered:
November 2003
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Tue, 19 April 2005 09:17
|
|
My tubo was an s15 gt28 but i had it modified slightly
As for the motor, it isnt standard if you know what i mean
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Tue, 19 April 2005 12:00
|
|
| Quote: |
200 rwkw in my lil 600 kg datto
|
What sort of datto are you talking about thats gonna be 600kg with a big diff, gearbox, brakes, cooler & turbo 4AG? I gotta see that!
|
|
|
Location:
western sydney
Registered:
February 2005
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 20 April 2005 00:54
|
|
yea i know.. was 660 now stripped interior its 580. got carried away. will hope to keep it close to 700 though.with no glass, replace with perspex.
its a 67' datsun 1000 2 door wagon.
cheers ben
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 20 April 2005 08:21
|
|
nice
got any pics of this 2 door wagon? I don't think i've seen one before, only sedans.
Cheers
Phil
|
|
|
Location:
western sydney
Registered:
February 2005
|
|
Re: most powerful 4AGTE on toymods
|
Wed, 20 April 2005 08:36
|
|
i do, however i can never get them under the size limit for this forum.
if you pm me your email ill send em that way.
theres actually not to many of em around the were a short production.
cheers ben
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
|
