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Location:
adel
Registered:
December 2004
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4age not starting - injectors not pulsing
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Mon, 09 May 2005 09:31
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Hi All,
I appreciate any help provided.
Since Saturday my AE82 twincam has not started  It cranks, runs for 2-3 seconds and then stalls cleanly. If you put your foot on the accelerator before the 2-3 seconds, it will stall right then.
I have tried a few things;
Checked for diagnostic codes from computer, 1 flash pause, 1 flash pause... (normal operation, I think).
Removed spark plug, inserted wire, you can still see it sparking even when the engine dies.
Replace fuel filter.
Removed return line from fuel rail, shorted fuel pump tester plug, lots of fuel comes out (into bucket.  )
Remove pipe from throttle-body and squirted throttle-body cleaner while running the engine, it stays running (although poorly) if you get this right, (anyone want to sit on my bonnet so I can drive around?)
Remove plug for cold start injector, it will only crank and will not run.
So I have confirmed there is spark at the plugs and fuel in the rail. I think the reason why it runs is because the cold start injector is providing enough fuel for a short while, hence it stalls or stalls when trying to accelerate (leaning out?)
I think maybe the injectors are not being told to fire. I do not hear the injectors 'click' and removed one injector plug, stuck multimeter on it and did not see any voltage. Fuses all seem OK. I am now looking at pin-outs of ECU, left most plug #10 and #20 seem to be the ones, I will try sticking a multimeter on them while cranking, should see voltage. Not sure how else to check if the ECU is telling the injectors to fire.
Sorry for the long post, any ideas welcomed as what to try now.
Edit: I have search already but not given up and found
http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&t h=13822&rid=8820&S=354a63103d6b030f1b47065 f0a3cd0be&pl_view=&start=0#msg_113626
which seems to accuratly describe my problem, I clamped the fuel return line and it ran longer but not well and could smell lots of fuel. Still could not hear the injectors clicking.
Ira11y suggested "checked that the earth for the injectors is good?? and that there is a signal leaving the ecu to power them??" The earth seems good, I have taken it off, cleaned / replaced. I am still not sure how to check that the ECU is powering the injectors.
TA22-3SGTE was very helpfull in describing how injectors work and how to test them "Unplug all the injectors and with a multi meter check if there is power at the injector plugs , one terminal in each plug should have power" I have about .5 volt in both terminals and it does not seem to change?
Off to play wires and pray to the Corolla gods.
[Updated on: Mon, 09 May 2005 11:36]
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
July 2004
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Re: 4age not starting - injectors not pulsing
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Mon, 09 May 2005 12:23
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You guess right it is running on the cold start injector only. Presuming you haven't been fiddling with things prior to this happening, check the earth in the top centre of the inlet manifold (brown wires from memory). Otherwise find your EFI main relay No.2, not sure where that is on an AE82 and check that. Am guessing it will be in the drivers footwell above the junction box as in an AE86. This switches on the injector circuit. Does it click when you turn on the ignition? It should as it has direct power from the ign switch. If not, problem is probably there. Swap the relay with another or have a look at the engine manual in the repository for the more detailed diagnostic path for the injector circuitry (pages FI 56 & FI 57)including how to check the relay. Good luck.
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Location:
melb
Registered:
February 2005
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Re: 4age not starting - injectors not pulsing
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Mon, 09 May 2005 12:32
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With the ignition on you should have 12V on both wires in the injector plug as the computer earths one side to fire the injector.
MATT.
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Location:
adel
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: 4age not starting - injectors not pulsing
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Mon, 09 May 2005 15:08
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Thank you parrot and FASTFOO.
I have been looking in the areas you have both suggested.
The injector connectors have about .5 volt running to them, not the 12V.
I have been pouring through the online manuals, they have been very handy. They explained how to check the ECU and had lots of wiring information.
The earths on the inlet manifold were brown with black dash, I have cleaned / refitted these. (good memory!)
I have replaced the relays in the footwell with known working relays from the engine.
The diagrams indicate that there maybe a resistor or solenoid between the battery and the injectors. I cannot seem to locate this, I would like to as the injectors do not seem to have the correct voltage. The ECU does not read right across E01 / #10 or E02 / #20.
I hope to find this "resistor" or solenoid to test otherwise the manual says it is the wiring or ECU.
Thanks again.
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Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 4age not starting - injectors not pulsing
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Tue, 10 May 2005 09:12
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no power the to the injectors would suggest either a burnt or shorted to ground power source ( esp if other things are going crazy electrically in the car ) or a fuse has gone, because you said your getting about 0.5v id say you have a short to ground or a major wiring fault, trace the power feed back down the loom to the relay, make sure you are getting 12v out the feed side to the injectors, if you have power there then try and trace as far as you can without removing the loom to the point where you loose power.
check ALL your fuses
Buy new relays
check power source to the ECU for good voltage
I cant recall if the power to the Inj circuit goes via ECU or straight from the relay but if its from the ECU ( i dont think it does on reflection, only earth trigger from ECU? ) then check the pinout point.
also try replacing the fuel pump relay
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Location:
adel
Registered:
December 2004
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 Re: 4age not starting - injectors not pulsing
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Tue, 10 May 2005 23:13
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Well we now start! 
After reading the tech docs / wiring and checking fuses and relays, I started chasing wires back through the loom.
This was where the issuse was with some kinked wiring.
Thanks IRA11Y, my understanding is that the injectors have constant 12V and the ECU earths them which actuates the solenoid in the injector.
I have learnt heaps about my car this week.
Thank you all!
stu
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