| Author | Topic |
|---|
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Wed, 22 January 2003 10:45
|
 |
I have the Celica SS-III Beams and I am
turbocharging it using a T-3 Turbo
and custom made pipes.
You can see all the specs of the engine at:
http://www.tuning.cz/lander/beams/
Compression is at 11-1 and I will not tamper with
the engine at all. The installation will be bolt-on
and without the use of an intercooler.
What is a reasonable PSI (or BAR) pressure that I can
use with no chance of engine problems
|
|
|
Location:
Rocky Mountains, Canada
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Wed, 22 January 2003 14:01
|
|
At 11:1 you wont be able to dial in much boost at all.
Maybe 6psi max.
Using a turbo at that compression rating is pretty much a waste.
|
|
|
Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Wed, 22 January 2003 22:44
|
|
|
engine go bang now...
|
|
|
Toymods Board Member
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
September 2002
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Thu, 23 January 2003 03:44
|
|
BOOM!!!!
11:1 Compression seems way too high for forced induction.. It wouldn't last long....
|
|
|
Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Thu, 23 January 2003 04:15
|
|
Not necessarily too high. I've heard it being done successfully before.
You'd better hope that you have it tuned right though. 'Coz even a small thing will lead to the Big Bang...
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Thu, 23 January 2003 04:54
|
|
No intercooler? You're nuts! With good intercooling you'd be able to run a small amount of boost safely, but without it the engine's going to be detonate itself into oblivion!
|
|
|
Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Thu, 23 January 2003 06:36
|
|
There is people over here in Perth that have turbocharged an S2000 with stock internals and they run over 11.0:1 compression. They were running a turbo from a later model EVO Lancer, and only using a low amount, something like 6psi so the turbo was understressed and they had a nice intercooler, I'd say go for it with a nice intercooler and good tuning, but don't bother otherwise 
|
|
|
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
|
Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Thu, 23 January 2003 09:39
|
|
On 6 psi the air temp wont get very high but I would strongly recommend setting up a water - methanol injection system to cool the air as much as possible and eliminate detonation , Also fit a rising rate fuel regulator , With a turbo and running low boost on a high compression motor you will gain heaps of low to mid range torque and this is why you will need to run the water - methanol system .
Trevor
|
|
|
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Thu, 23 January 2003 20:22
|
|
is 6psi safe without any water injection or intercooling?
Bare in mind that the engine is VVt-i and Greddy e-manage
is going to be used to control detonation
|
|
|
Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Fri, 24 January 2003 03:57
|
|
Couldnt you get a similar benifit in power form a decent set of cams and timing alterations ??
I dont know alot about the beams motors - but seeing its only a 50 HP gain your looking for - is it really worth all this effort to make it forced induction
An aggressive cam set up could wield a good 30 HP at least Id expect ?
better breathing and headflow would give a shade more ?
going on old school motor experience here - not new stuff
Cams - Throttle bodies - engine mapping - you should be able to get the desired figure without the turbo
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Fri, 24 January 2003 08:47
|
|
why waste such a good motor...
unless you have damn good fuel dont bother...this motor struggles on 98RON fuel...and GReddy E-manage I dont think id put my life on this one, get an Apexi Power FC...
you will need some form of cooling, either water injection or an intercooler otherwise you will probably blow the motor apart, even at 6psi the air is still heated enough to induce detonation uncooled...compressing any air will raise the temperature, it just depends on how much according the efficiency of the turbo, its called an Adiabatic Compression.
the turbo will generally be under 75% efficiency, so at that point of the map 25% of the work done by the compressor will effectly heat the air.
Combustion chamber design also tells whether the motor will take high compression or not..
|
|
|
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Thu, 13 February 2003 14:53
|
|
The car is finally ready.
Running at 0.5 Bar (approx. 7.2 psi) with stock
compression and a Supra Intercooler.
Air to fuel ratio checked and is not Lean anywhere
on the RPM scale. It is a bit rich at a very few places
but this is being fixed with E-Manage laptop programming.
Torque is great at any RPM, even before the turbo hits at 3,000 rpm because of the 11-1 compression.
Overall a very happy owner 
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Thu, 13 February 2003 23:01
|
|
What turbo did you end up using?
Cheers
Wilbo
|
|
|
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
|
Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Sun, 16 February 2003 10:56
|
|
so i'm guessing the car is a 6th gen celcia from japan, or did ya get the BEAMS engine put in it, (if so what did the BEAMS engien cost ya.
If anyone know the price of a BEAMS engine or a front cut for it (FRONT wheels drive (red top cover type), i would loave to know.
Nezza 
|
|
|
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Mon, 17 February 2003 07:45
|
|
The car came with the Beams engine. It is a 6th Generation
SS-III with Limited slip, ABS, Superstrut suspension,
airbags, climate control, 6 speakers, large spoiler,
white rims etc.
You can see the car here:
http://www.bestjapancar.com/toyota12112111.htm
|
|
|
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Tue, 18 February 2003 06:56
|
|
Is there a formula to calculate the approximate horsepower
knowing the old power (200bhp) compression (11:1)
and turbo boost ( 0.5bar or 7.2psi) ?
Also can anybody tell me that if air to fuel ratio
between 10.3 and 11.7 at high RPM is good enough ?
|
|
|
Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Tue, 18 February 2003 11:26
|
|
i know 14.7 is like the base line (average) the ratio the ECU trys to keep too. And i think that (the ratio u stated) ratio is pretty good for high RMP load (so it doesn't lean out).
Nezza
Correct me if me wrong.
|
|
|
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Tue, 18 February 2003 11:45
|
|
10.3 is stupidly rich, and not even turbo motors will run this rich at high rpm.....all its good for is fouling up plugs.
a turbocharged motor makes peak power around 12.5:1 afr and atmo motor around 13.5:1 afr, the idea of running them slighter richer is to aid the cooling of combustion to reduce possibilities of detonation, leaner mixtures produce more heat which also can lead to preignition from hot spots and very volatile mixtures. with 10.3:1 afr you will be losing lots of power and using unnecessary fuel, get it tuned properly to around 12:1 and see how that goes. with your sort of setup you wont be able to run much timing due to the high compression nature, but that is integral to combustion chamber design, give it timing and see how it goes.
thats my 5c from my experience.
gnight.
|
|
|
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Tue, 18 February 2003 15:39
|
|
I only get 10.3 for a split second.
Most of the times I am between 11.4 and 11.9
|
|
|
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Thu, 20 February 2003 09:20
|
|
WOW 
That looks so tough!
Cheers
Wilbo
|
|
|
Location:
Montrose, VIC
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Thu, 20 February 2003 12:20
|
|
PLEASE put it on a dyno and check the tuning carefully. Oh, and let me know how much grunt she makes too 
|
|
|
Registered:
January 2003
|
|
Re: Turbocharging a 3S-GE
|
Thu, 20 February 2003 16:02
|
|
Will do that as soon as I install my cold air induction filter
and do the final tuning with e-manage next week.
I will out of Cyprus most of next week visiting UK.
|
|
|
