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Registered:
May 2002
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MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Sat, 15 March 2003 12:53
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What would you get and why ??
Im thinking bout an MR2, went for a drive in a NA MR2 Japan spec (2.0 n/a) and it went pretty hard ! was impressed..
Who has an MR2 here n/a or turbo.. can you give me some info on them ie. performance etc
THough the 200SX has the edge over the MR2 being a 4 seater...hmmmm
Thanks ! 
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Sat, 15 March 2003 12:55
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Go for a turbo MR2! Who needs passengers anyway?
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Sat, 15 March 2003 13:12
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no back seat my friend ! 
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MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Sat, 15 March 2003 13:18
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Mate you can't compare the MR2 with a Datto or a 4 wheel drive water cooled VEE-DUB , The MR2 is a real sports car not a family car dressed up trying to impersonate a sports car , Get yourself a MR2 Turbo .
Trevor
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Sun, 16 March 2003 10:32
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| TA22-3SGTE wrote on Sun, 16 March 2003 00:20 |
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I am comparing an MR2, s14 and WRX... What are the good/bad points of each and why.
No shit the MR2 is a 'true sports car' but a car is for show, speed, and taking friends (not friend) to BBQ's 
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Location:
Melb, Victoria
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Sun, 16 March 2003 22:31
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I'd go S14 even though i drive a suby, easy power up, strong drive line, RWD. The MR2 is supposed to be a great sports car in both handling and straight line speed, maybe even having an edge in perfomance over the S14. The suby is a great all round car, plenty of grip (maybe too much), handles well, room for the family/friends but has a weak drive line if abused and cost more to get same speed as S14 or MR2.
Vic.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Sun, 16 March 2003 23:53
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As I said to you before, I'd be inclined to get an S14A 200SX. These ones look better with the newer headlights, and the SR20DET (although sounding shit) has one of the best aftermarkets for any engine...ever.
Good power can be had with few mods, and there are a heap of people who could help.
As I also said to you before, I reckon the 3SGTE is probably the better engine...but it just never had the following of the SR.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Mon, 17 March 2003 01:26
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Go for an MR2 GT.
Whats your price range?
You have to calculate insurance with what ever you chose to buy.
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Location:
Perth - Cannington
Registered:
December 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Mon, 17 March 2003 02:01
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That car is an S13 dude
As for that Supra, you mean the one at Works Auto, opposite Bentley Autos? I say it the other day....nice 
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Location:
Parramatta
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Mon, 17 March 2003 22:19
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i would say mr2 cause i have one i suppose but u want status mr2 there isnt as many around as wrx's and s14s also not too many ppl go and do them up heaps, and there is shitloads of potental in them for the money the mr2 shits all over both of the other models u have picked u get leather climate control all the good shit depending on what model abs, trc the list goes on.. but also its a mid mount motor its great u wont be disapponted...+ u might wanna know i put s14 and wrx to shame with the mr2
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Mon, 17 March 2003 23:33
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I'd say an MR2 because I dont see them as often as the 200SX or WRX. They seem to look good and run pretty good too. Sure you wont be able to have any back seat passangers, I had to think of that problem too when I decided on getting my Supra. I also got it, bacause around where I am there seems to be an abundance of Nissan "performane" cars even my friends trying to convince me to buy a Skyline.  but I've always like Toyota  . Choice is yours man.
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Location:
Melbourne.
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Tue, 18 March 2003 00:40
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My choice would be more a reliable and easier to parts to source car is the s14. Only due to the age.
I used to have an sw20 MR2 GT Turbo and was fantastic, the only big gripe is its a fcukn kant to work on! no space at all! The turbo gearboxes and shafts are getting rare, otherwise theyre a top car, handle well and is fun in the wet 
Stock theyre a low 14second car for a pre 94 and a genIII is a mid 13sec car stock!
The s14 is an all rounder, i love the light rear end and factory LSD! sr20's and there gboxes, diffs ect are a plenty, and interchangeable from the s13 onwards.
WRX's ... bah... i dont like them personally. They go well, and all my mates have had no major probs with them. I just dont like 4WD, as they are no fun and not a 'drivers' car.
You need RWD for fun no doubt!
I will either be going back to an MR2 Turbo, s14 or mebe a Soarer GT TT in about 2 months. Hrmzz... Mebe even a 180.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Tue, 18 March 2003 04:18
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If you want a performance car, the SW21 will shit over the other two.
If you can't live with only 2 seats, then why are you considering it?
If you want 4 seats, then I'd get the S14. WRXs are understeering shitboxes.
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Thu, 20 March 2003 02:46
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SW20MR2
- slow in NA..
-limited mods available to turbo
- no luggage room (yes its a sports car, but say you want to go on a trip to the snow or something, then its stuffed)
- lack of traction vs awd
WRX
- everyone has one
- expensive to insure
- cops hate them
- weak drivetrain
- try to find one that hasnt been thrashed!
- target for theives/joyriders
- heaps of parts available.
- Awd traction
200SX
- strong drivetrain
- limited traction (tends to swap ends in the wet!)
- expensive to insure
have you thought about:
Lancer GSR/Evo?
- cost similar to above cars
- cheaper to insure
- sleeper value - dont get hassled by cops etc
- strong drivetrain compared to WRX (ie boxes dont break)
- good parts availability and knowledge
- good traction vs rwd cars.
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Thu, 20 March 2003 02:55
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so can anyone tell me more about traction? 
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Thu, 20 March 2003 04:19
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WTF is that?!?! 
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Location:
Perth - Cannington
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Thu, 20 March 2003 04:24
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Mon, 17 March 2003 10:01 |
That car is an S13 dude
As for that Supra, you mean the one at Works Auto, opposite Bentley Autos? I say it the other day....nice
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yeah.. thats what i meant.. lol..
hard to tell the difference.. im not big on nissans.
yeah.. the Extra wide moves about.. its also spending time at the bently garage (all owned by the smae guys)...
anythign new on it?
theyre putting 19's on and finishing the body off..
looks pretty nice
Peace
Katsu
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Thu, 20 March 2003 06:11
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Heheheh.... AWD has it! RWD doesnt
Depending if you like to go straight or sideways
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Thu, 20 March 2003 12:20
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my mate wants to get a 95 R33 GTR (4wd) 700hp
$35,000 no more to pay
fr Japan
fuckk....
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Thu, 20 March 2003 13:50
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Right on Les. A R33 GTR at the price sounds good. Thats about the price of R32 GTRs I think at the moment. A guy near my work bought his R33 GTR for $50K all done up. Yeah I sorta gotta agree with "itsnotagsr". From where I am, I do see alot of WRX and 200SX's but I dont see many GSR or EVOs(Price would be one main reason).
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Thu, 20 March 2003 21:55
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Having had a FWD, RWD and AWD cars, I can honestly say that I have no more understeer than in either of my other cars. Conditions such as understeer and oversteer can be effectively minimised by upgrades such as suspension and LSDs.
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Thu, 20 March 2003 21:58
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| Spaceboy wrote on Fri, 21 March 2003 00:50 |
Right on Les. A R33 GTR at the price sounds good. Thats about the price of R32 GTRs I think at the moment. A guy near my work bought his R33 GTR for $50K all done up. Yeah I sorta gotta agree with "itsnotagsr". From where I am, I do see alot of WRX and 200SX's but I dont see many GSR or EVOs(Price would be one main reason).
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GSRs go for between 15-20K depending on mods. For 20K you should be able to get a nice one with approx 100ks, 2L turbo conversion, suspension, mags etc... usual mods. The only "engine" mods I have is an exhaust and 15psi. The car is almost 10 years old but still keeps up/beats most new cars.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
September 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Fri, 21 March 2003 16:34
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I refering to the prices of EVO's. I saw the Evo VII at a Mitsubishi stand and they were asking around $80,000. Pffft!!! to the dealer. Either he was pulling my leg or saw me walking around the Mitsubishi stand checking it out and said that so i would leave knowing I couldnt afford it.
Bu back on the topic, I'd still go with the MR2 but refering to 200SX DEAD topic, the 200Sx may become limited.
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Sat, 22 March 2003 09:44
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evo 1s go for about 20k. My friend's one ran a 12.7 with an exhaust and 18psi. No other mods.
Chris
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Sun, 23 March 2003 11:30
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GSR's are pretty ugly looking though..
u wither like them or hate em
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Sun, 23 March 2003 22:02
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ugly compared to what?
they're sleepers. Toymods people should appreciate that!
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Sun, 23 March 2003 22:18
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SLEEPER !?!?!?!? damm, u must live under a rock if you think GSR's are sleepers !!
sorry not you personally, i mean anyone on the street!
GSR's are by no means sleepers in my book !
my definition of sleepers are hmm, "cheap, done up bombs" which are most of the cars on this site JUST JOKING!! a gsr at 20k, is not a sleeper - they are sought after cars actually !
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Mon, 24 March 2003 02:07
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I would consider a stock gsr a sleeper in comparison to the other cars under consideration, ie wrx 200sx or MR2.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Mon, 24 March 2003 02:19
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Ok... Ive driven all of the above cars.. Take an Mr2 Turbo for a wrap...
Then come back and tell us all how the other two cars where nicer to drive! NOT!
Go on do it.. i dare ya!
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Mon, 24 March 2003 02:30
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Pity it has no power....
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Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Mon, 24 March 2003 09:13
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| itsnotagsr wrote on Mon, 24 March 2003 13:07 |
I would consider a stock gsr a sleeper in comparison to the other cars under consideration, ie wrx 200sx or MR2.
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Too true 
but if u were a driver of a 200, or wrx say, ud know the GSR is no sleeper yeh ?
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Mon, 24 March 2003 22:16
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Heheheeh... if you can thank ricers for one thing... its that most people assume there is more show than go! So there are a few good chop chop stories.... ask Luke how he went against mine
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Mon, 24 March 2003 22:39
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I havent driven any! But Id pick an MR2, They are underestimated, you can get some good HP outta the 3sgte, just look at the JGTC supras!. The other 2, well they are everywhre, you'd think they were Orix fleet cars. But Id pick the 200 next, as Subarus are just toooo weak!
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Tue, 25 March 2003 02:05
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Whilst you can get good power out of a 3sgte MR2, it is more difficult than say a wrx or a 200sx. You are limited due to the poor location of the intercooler and strength of the motor. At best you get a 3sgte out of a GT4 205 and use that instead. There are plenty of reasons why there are no quick mr2s compared to 200sxs and wrxs.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Tue, 25 March 2003 02:47
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The 3S-GTE in the SW21 and ST205 are identical AFAIK.
All you need is to do a water-to-air intercooler and pipe it to a big heat exchanger up the front.
It's a great engine. Much better than the SR20DET and the WRX boxer (whatever it's called).
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Tue, 25 March 2003 04:07
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| itsnotagsr wrote on Tue, 25 March 2003 14:52 |
Water to air will never flow as well as a large front mounted air-to-air cooler.
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is it just me or does this not make sense?
isnt the water to air heat exchanger is practically an air to air intercooler submersed in water? so technically u can put a large free flowing core into a water tank and have the same flow as its air to air cousin?
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Tue, 25 March 2003 07:26
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What I meant was more to do with the size and position of the cooler. Remember water-to-air coolers usually sit on top of a hot engine bay, whereas a large FMIC will be sitting out in the breeze.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Tue, 25 March 2003 08:07
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Notice that I wrote SW21, not SW20.
Sitting on top of the engine is one thing, but water absorbs heat better.
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Tue, 25 March 2003 09:54
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Wouldnt the water trap the heat in the water-to-air cooler therefore not being as efficient as a air-to-air FMIC?
There must have been a definite negative for W-t-A Coolers otherwise everyone would be using them instead of phat front mounts!
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I supported Toymods
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Tue, 25 March 2003 10:05
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| Nark wrote on Tue, 18 March 2003 15:18 |
WRXs are understeering shitboxes.
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Diplomat. The UN is looking for people like you.
That said, you're right. Oh, and make sure they change the gearbox each service.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Tue, 25 March 2003 10:39
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I'm REALLY biased in this one but......
Remember you can use a WTA with a smaller core volume that ATA and have less lag. But, there more complicated and people can't see them when you drive past....no wank factor.
As far as limits in the MR2 turbo go, your not limited in an MR2 by the strength of the engine, your limited by the stock computer system. Phoenix Power etc. do some very silly things with these motors, and somehow getaway with it. But, in all cars with good traction, the driveline suffers greater wear.
Traction wise all MR cars launch excellent. Go for a ride in one sometime.
And to get the same power at the wheels as an MR2 a WRX or 200SX will need to make more power than an mr2 as they both have greater drivetrain losses.
The reason there's not as many fast MR2's on the road as 200sx's etc....is there's more WRX's and 200sx's on the road.
The disadvantage is the only thing my cars good for is being a dickhead in.
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Tue, 25 March 2003 22:07
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Jase:
There is very little noticeable lag from a front mount vs a top mount air-to-air or air-to-water. This can be cured by running a ball-bearing turbo, resulting in faster spool up or an aftermarket dump pipe.
As for best launch... you cant beat 4wd!
The 3sgte is limited to about 1.3 bar before it starts lifting the heads and you need to start thinking of strengthening it.
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May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Tue, 25 March 2003 22:34
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No matter what it is WTA or ATA lag is a direct result of the volume of the intercooler core plus pipework. If the volume is larger, the lag must be. True, ball bearing will mask it, but when comparing cooler vs cooler this is significant.
As for the best launch, 4wd's are great, but when comparing lack of understeer, and subtantially lower drive train loss, I think I've made up my mind. (and you yours)
And isn't the fastest wrx ATM a 2wd?
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Tue, 25 March 2003 22:51
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Big red dude, I'm always diplomatic in my choice of words.
Water-to-air intercoolers pump the water out to the heat exchanger at the front to cool it down. This means the water that's flowing over the intercooler is usually pretty cool.
There is MUCH less plumbing in a w/a setup, changing to a rollerbearing turbo doesn't change a thing, that's got nothing to do with the i/c setup...
The reason they're not really used in motorsport any more is that if you're going full time and heating the water faster than it can be cooled...........
On the street w/a is far superiour since you're only on boost for short periods of time.
My friend an I got our hands on a WRX once. After 3 launches, we decided to stop..... I think that thing has had a new gearbox each service....
As for the 3S-GTE. Where did you hear that? I smell bullshit.
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May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Wed, 26 March 2003 00:02
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WRX engine is EJ20...
As for WTA Vs ATA coolers, would the issues as relates to efficiency stem from the fact that water has a higher(Lower?) specific heat than air - in that it takes longer to heat a specific volume, but also longer to cool it, whereas air heats quicker, but also cools quicker...Thus if you are "on boost" for prolonged periods of time, a WTA would struggle to keep the water cool enough to do it's job efficiently...although I'd suggest that this shouldn't be much of an issue in street-driven apps.
Most ATAs are fitted because they're visible FIRST and efficient SECOND, IMHO...
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Wed, 26 March 2003 00:33
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I think this "lag" has been misrepresented. I dont think it is very noticeable at all and probably masked by bigger turbos on most cars where this conversion has taken place. Understeer is easily countered by fitting a larger rear swap bar for about $150 from whiteline or fitting a front LSD rather than an open diff like on a wrx.
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I supported Toymods
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Wed, 26 March 2003 00:36
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Yeah, but the new WRX STi has a front LSD. They praise it for the fact is has markedly reduced the understeer present, but it is still understeery compared to say a RWD setup.
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Location:
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Wed, 26 March 2003 00:36
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3sgte boost comment was direct from the owner of one of Australia's quickest Mr2s. He's now converted to the ST205 engine in order to run higher boost and stop the head lift issue.
I still think water to air is vastly inferior to a large fmic given the increase in cooling avaliable. The rb turbo comment was in regards to your issue of overcoming supposed lag from longer plumbing.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Wed, 26 March 2003 00:36
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Water has a very high specific heat. That means it takes a lot more energy to heat up a certain volume of water compared to other substances.
What is also important though is that water has good thermal conductance. This is the ability to quickly absorb the heat.
Hence, if you want to cool something down quickly, you run it under a tap rather than sticking it in front of a fan.
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Wed, 26 March 2003 00:39
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But your arguement doesnt seem to apply of you have a big FMIC hanging out the front of your car where the air will not heat up at all, however the w-t-a cooler will as it sits in the engine bay.
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Wed, 26 March 2003 00:41
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Ofcourse it will still indersteer, even with the diff, this is due to the calibre of driver who has most wrxs... its safer to put a bit of understeer in so that people dont go silly. Most drivers arent Tommi Makinnen, therefore the factory will make it understeer a bit (safer than oversteer). Anyone who has driven an S15 in the wet knows all about oversteer!
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I supported Toymods
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Wed, 26 March 2003 00:43
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Hehe...it doesn't have to be wet
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Wed, 26 March 2003 00:43
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Agreed that water cools quite quickly, however what if the water has been heated to a temperature higher than the outside temperature? Eg say 40deg (because of the heat of the engine bay) vs say 15 deg air temp on a cool night for a FMIC? Your comment is valid for stable temps, however there may be a temp difference between the two in real life situation.
Heheh this is a cool topic
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Wed, 26 March 2003 00:45
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yep, not just in the wet
I agree o/steer is fun, but most people dont want it driving to the shops, kids etc. Therefore the factory will prefer understeer in their setup.
Whilst 4wd may have inherent understeer, you get the grip advantages too. (Que subaru propaganda and Steve Bradbury ads)
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Wed, 26 March 2003 00:46
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| itsnotagsr wrote on Wed, 26 March 2003 11:36 |
3sgte boost comment was direct from the owner of one of Australia's quickest Mr2s. He's now converted to the ST205 engine in order to run higher boost and stop the head lift issue.
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So what does an ST205 run if it's not a 3S-GTE? Especially when it's not supposed to have this head lift issue.....
| itsnotagsr wrote on Wed, 26 March 2003 11:36 |
I still think water to air is vastly inferior to a large fmic given the increase in cooling avaliable. The rb turbo comment was in regards to your issue of overcoming supposed lag from longer plumbing.
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If you can swap a turbo on an a/a, you can swap a turbo on a w/a.
Swapping a larger turbo in may mask the lag from the increased plumbing, but the weight of the impellor will make (increased) lag of its own.
Blow for blow, everything else being the same, simple physics states that the w/a setup will have less lag. There is MUCH less volume of air to be pushed through.
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Location:
At work :(
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: MR2 Vs S14 200SX Vs WRX
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Wed, 26 March 2003 00:50
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| Nark wrote on Wed, 26 March 2003 11:46 |
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So what does an ST205 run if it's not a 3S-GTE? Especially when it's not supposed to have this head lift issue.....
Yes agreed they are 3sgte, just saying that the ST205 version is better than the ST185 and SW20s for that reason.
"If you can swap a turbo on an a/a, you can swap a turbo on a w/a.
Swapping a larger turbo in may mask the lag from the increased plumbing, but the weight of the impellor will make (increased) lag of its own."
Yes agreed, just saying that what people may have blamed on the cooler, may have been the turbo contributing to it rather than the cooler itself.
"Blow for blow, everything else being the same, simple physics states that the w/a setup will have less lag. There is MUCH less volume of air to be pushed through."
Yes less volume, however is the idea of the cooler to cool as much air as possible over a wider surface area? Wouldnt the smaller cooler be a restriction? I was primarily refering to the difference between types rather than sizes which raises other issues!
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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