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MS-75 Regular Location: Adelaide Registered: June 2002	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ??? Mon, 26 May 2003 05:26 Engineers opinion #2- If you consider the two horses problem, due to the fact that horses generally have steel horseshoes on, their traction is somewhat limited-and especially when considering the common surface on which horses pulling carts-that is cobblestones (most often wet as well you will agree as we are generally talking about the deep dark middle ages when it really rained quite alot), it really becomes quite difficult to assess as the horses are likely to slip long before their individual output reaches even 1/2 a kw (aboout .7 or so of a HP). Consider then that you would need to put the horses on a large open field to enable them to put out even close to a kw each (better traction)-then of course you need about 30 horses per end of the cart-which I'm sure you would agree increases the weight of the cart considerably. Consider also the fact that at any one time there may be a proportion of the horses (30 at each end) distracted by the fact that they are in a field of nice green grass and so not actually pulling with the normal level of power. (the number of distracted horses is directly proportional to the level of greeness of the grass) To make sure the number of horses pulling is 30 at anyone time (at each end) we must either increase the number of horses (as there are already 30 at each end and horses were rather expensive during the dark ages this should be considered unrealistic), or find someway to stop the horses being distracted by the grass. One possible option would be to have a small gibbon assigned to each horse to keep it's mind on the job-however given the low number of gibbons in europe during the middle ages this has to be considered dubious solution to the distracted horse issue. Of course with the gibbons comes another problem-that is that they will increase in weight in accordance with einsteins theory as the horses accelerate-causing the horses to sink into the green soggy field up to their knees-bringing the whole experiment to a standstill. Of course this is clearly a failre of logic when comparing the vehicle problem to distracted horses being ridden by gibbons during the dark ages. You should really go back and re-think the problem. Seriously though-100 kw delivered to the road from 2 axles or one is irrelevant. As long as thje total power is 100kw (the power curves must also be identical as '100kw' simply denotes the peak power of the engine) and the mass of the vehicle is the same. Or If the area under the power curves for the the two smaller engines equals the area under the power curve for the larger engine then it will also make no difference. (this is perhaps oversimplified as there are a few assumptions and statements to be made-but after that rubbish above, my typing finger is sore) Oh yeah, and for the wheel discussion, 25 kw and 50 kw through the same wheel, the 50 kw will accelerate the wheel from a standstill to the designated revs in 1/2 the time. (note-however this does not mean that in the same time the 50 kw wheel will be doing twice the speed-remember Kinetic energy=1/2(mv^2)) Talking about 'neglecting losses' is a perfectly relevant way to get your head around things as it allows you to understand individual concepts rather than attempting to deal with several variables at once. It is similar to conducting an actual experiment under controlled conditions. Whilst it may not reflect 'real world conditions' it will illustrate actual relationships and is good experimental practice. Sean (PS : I am actually an engineer-despite what the above load of garbage my indicate ) [Report message to a moderator]

	Subject	Poster	Date
	Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	manipulate	Thu, 15 May 2003 07:44
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	Nark	Thu, 15 May 2003 08:00
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	manipulate	Thu, 15 May 2003 08:03
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	Nark	Thu, 15 May 2003 08:11
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	manipulate	Thu, 15 May 2003 08:33
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	manipulate	Thu, 15 May 2003 10:53
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	Les	Thu, 15 May 2003 12:25
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	Intensevil	Thu, 15 May 2003 13:05
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	AE92_Hatzi	Thu, 15 May 2003 13:36
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	GEE120	Fri, 16 May 2003 02:44
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	manipulate	Fri, 16 May 2003 08:00
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	justcallmefrank	Fri, 16 May 2003 08:03
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	manipulate	Fri, 16 May 2003 08:08
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	BigWorm	Fri, 16 May 2003 08:37
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	manipulate	Fri, 16 May 2003 08:58
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	strober	Fri, 16 May 2003 11:06
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	manipulate	Fri, 16 May 2003 11:11
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	Mr*Beach	Sat, 17 May 2003 03:58
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	manipulate	Sat, 17 May 2003 04:28
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	strober	Sat, 17 May 2003 11:38
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	toycelica77	Sat, 17 May 2003 11:59
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	draven	Sat, 17 May 2003 12:25
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	manipulate	Sun, 18 May 2003 02:22
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	Norbie	Sun, 18 May 2003 09:57
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	manipulate	Sun, 18 May 2003 10:10
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	draven	Sun, 18 May 2003 11:07
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	Nark	Mon, 19 May 2003 00:21
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	wizzfizz2097	Mon, 19 May 2003 07:22
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	Intensevil	Mon, 19 May 2003 07:43
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	Nark	Mon, 19 May 2003 07:52
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	Nark	Mon, 19 May 2003 07:55
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	Intensevil	Mon, 19 May 2003 07:56
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	draven	Mon, 19 May 2003 11:22
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	Nark	Tue, 20 May 2003 00:27
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	gold28	Tue, 20 May 2003 03:30
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	manipulate	Tue, 20 May 2003 11:17
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	MS-75	Mon, 26 May 2003 05:26
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	gold28	Mon, 26 May 2003 06:05
	Re: Question: Push Delivery of AWD & 2WD ???	manipulate	Mon, 26 May 2003 08:21

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