F.A.Q.    Register    Login    Home Members    Search

Toymods » Tech & Conversions » TORQUE Show: Today's Posts  :: Show Polls  Email to friend

Author	Topic
oldcorollas Forums Junkie Location: Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan Registered: January 2003	Re: TORQUE Tue, 24 June 2003 07:17 i had hoped that the concept of torque being a twisting force was already known..... since most ppl who have changed a head gasket have encountered the 'torque' required for their headbolts... seems i was drastically mistaken. it's not rocket science, btu if someone can't extrapolate from the concept of a force acting at a distance, resulting in a circular motion, to gearing and force at wheels... not much i can do.... www.howstuffworks.com as for torque not being important? you tell only half the story... "on a side note: torque is often mistaken by those with little or no grasp on the relevent concepts as being more important than power. usually by the same group of people, oddly enough, who think turbos are for small engines only, and/or inferior to superchargers. " i think a review of the concepts is in order. two cars with same size tyres, one with twice the torque at the wheels at the same car speed, and thus twice the force at the tyres circumference acting on the road..... you tell me which one is going to accelerate faster ( A = F/M) the power issue is misinterpreted by many ppl to be most important. a famous quote(and i can't even remember who said it now..) was "power sells cars, torque wins races" and that is true. what you forget to mention is gearing. your electric motor idea. one motor, 1Nm@1000rpm, second = 1Nm@20000rpm. the second motor does indeed have more power, but if connected thru the same gearing, will have the same accelerative force at the wheels as the first motor. to use power effectively, you have to take advantage of GEARING. take F1 cars as an example. they are what? 3L motors? they have a theoretical MAXIMUM torque that can be produced from 3L capacity (see my equations thread). BUT, they rev to sayy... 15000rpm. if you have a normal 3L motor running at 5000rpm and an F1 3L motor running at 15000rpm, both are at 100% volumetric efficiency, THEY WILL BOTH BE MAKING THE SAME TORQUE. BUT, for the same car speed, the F1 motor will have a GEARING advantage of 3:1 over the normal car engine, and so the TORQUE AT THE WHEELS will be 3 times higher, so for a given car mass, will accellerate 3 times faster. this is why ppl think that a car with more power accelerates faster than a car with more torque. two cars with identical POWER at different rpm, at the same road speed, will accelerate at the same rate, since GEARING multiplies the torque of the motor with higher rpm at same power. "power is what moves a car or object" ahhh, i believe Newton had something to do with explaining this.... something about FORCE ? google for Newtons laws, i can't be bothered typing it. power is the rate at which that force is applied. an eddy current dyno is basically an electric motor. you feed anough electrical POWER into this motor so you can create enough reatrding FORCE so that you keep the engine rpm constant (we ain't getting into ramp rates here), as the motor is not held rigid, this causes the electric motor to ROTATE, and the FORCE required to stop this movement is what is measured, and is calibrated against a known FORCE at the rollers. i was hoping that by using the semi-scientific analogy of "1 kilogram at the end of a 1 metre stick held out horizontally" would avoid trying to explain that a 'newton metre' is a 'moment of force' and what bending moments are and haviong to explain the whole damn SI system..... (to ppl wanting a 'girlfiends explanation) to cap it all off. PLEASE look at these HOW stuff works pages as it will save much bother and typing in the future How Force, Power, Torque and Energy Work http://science.howstuffworks.com/fpte.htm How do you convert engine torque to horsepower? http://auto.howstuffworks.com/question622.htm How Horsepower Works http://auto.howstuffworks.com/horsepower.htm How Gears Work http://science.howstuffworks.com/gear.htm rusty wrote on Tue, 24 June 2003 05:37 all BAD22 needs to know in the way of concepts, is that torque = twist. "Nm" simply represents a newton (unit of force, like kg) acting at the end of a given distance, in this case 1 metre. this was all covered in previous posts above. its simple leverage, not rocket science. more force at the end of the metre, more twist, more torque. on a side note: torque is often mistaken by those with little or no grasp on the relevent concepts as being more important than power. usually by the same group of people, oddly enough, who think turbos are for small engines only, and/or inferior to superchargers. but i digress. power is what moves a car or object. back to the electric motor. if you have an electric motor that generates 1Nm of torque @ 1000rpm and the same 1Nm at 20,000rpm, it will be making 20 times the power it makes at 1000rpm, even thuogh the torque has stayed the same. as for how newton meters are measured, the only realistic way to measure them (in the automotive sphere of things anyway) is via an engine dyno. chassis dynos measure torque at the wheels, and spit out a (torque) figure which is the result of the cars gearbox and differential. power is calculated from referencing the roller speed against the torque measured at the rollers. this is commonly called tractive force, or effort, at least on a dyno dynamics eddy current dyno. on a dynojet inertial dyno the machine measures hp and calculates a guestimate of torque at the flywheel using inputted data on drivetrain gear ratios. [Report message to a moderator]

	Subject	Poster	Date
	TORQUE	BAD22	Sat, 21 June 2003 04:43
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Sat, 21 June 2003 07:20
	Re: TORQUE	trent_kershaw	Sat, 21 June 2003 09:52
	Re: TORQUE	wilbo666	Sat, 21 June 2003 12:29
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Sat, 21 June 2003 13:06
	Re: TORQUE	TA22-3SGTE	Sat, 21 June 2003 13:20
	Re: TORQUE	gianttomato	Sun, 22 June 2003 02:18
	Re: TORQUE	rusty	Mon, 23 June 2003 19:37
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Tue, 24 June 2003 01:57
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Tue, 24 June 2003 07:17
	Re: TORQUE	rusty	Tue, 24 June 2003 08:33
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Tue, 24 June 2003 09:32
	Re: TORQUE	gianttomato	Tue, 24 June 2003 09:42
	Re: TORQUE	Gremlin	Thu, 26 June 2003 02:16
	Re: TORQUE	rusty	Tue, 24 June 2003 10:29
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Tue, 24 June 2003 11:12
	Re: TORQUE	gianttomato	Tue, 24 June 2003 11:46
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Tue, 24 June 2003 12:01
	Re: TORQUE	trent_kershaw	Tue, 24 June 2003 14:03
	Re: TORQUE	NO-18r	Sat, 21 June 2003 08:48
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Sat, 21 June 2003 08:49
	Re: TORQUE	manipulate	Sat, 21 June 2003 08:51
	Re: TORQUE	manipulate	Sat, 21 June 2003 13:10
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Sat, 21 June 2003 13:12
	Re: TORQUE	cam_RA40	Sat, 21 June 2003 23:17
	Re: TORQUE	JDM hachi	Sat, 21 June 2003 22:52
	Re: TORQUE	manipulate	Sun, 22 June 2003 01:55
	Re: TORQUE	charliechalk	Sun, 22 June 2003 11:26
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Sun, 22 June 2003 15:58
	Re: TORQUE	gianttomato	Mon, 23 June 2003 01:05
	Re: TORQUE	charliechalk	Mon, 23 June 2003 08:06
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Mon, 23 June 2003 10:00
	Re: TORQUE	Super Jamie	Tue, 24 June 2003 11:04
	Re: TORQUE	kingmick	Tue, 24 June 2003 12:18
	Re: TORQUE	THE WITZL	Tue, 24 June 2003 12:27
	Re: TORQUE	trent_kershaw	Tue, 24 June 2003 12:44
	Re: TORQUE	THE WITZL	Tue, 24 June 2003 13:06
	Re: TORQUE	rusty	Tue, 24 June 2003 16:35
	Re: TORQUE	juzzo84	Tue, 24 June 2003 21:08
	Re: TORQUE	boudan	Tue, 24 June 2003 22:49
	Re: TORQUE	Super Jamie	Wed, 25 June 2003 07:26
	Re: TORQUE and shite stirring	oldcorollas	Wed, 25 June 2003 12:27
	Re: TORQUE and shite stirring	oldcorollas	Wed, 25 June 2003 12:36
	Re: TORQUE	boudan	Thu, 26 June 2003 00:37
	Re: TORQUE	bayka	Wed, 25 June 2003 17:41
	Re: TORQUE	Norbie	Wed, 25 June 2003 22:37
	Re: TORQUE	dar_sbb	Thu, 26 June 2003 01:58
	Re: TORQUE	bayka	Thu, 26 June 2003 05:49
	Re: flat TORQUE curves	oldcorollas	Thu, 26 June 2003 06:23
	Re: flat TORQUE curves	Nark	Thu, 26 June 2003 06:45
	Re: flat TORQUE curves	oldcorollas	Thu, 26 June 2003 07:03

Previous Topic:	hey guys problem with the fuel tank fitting
Next Topic:	Engine lean?

Powered by: FUDforum 2.3.8
Copyright ©2001-2003 Advanced Internet Designs Inc.