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rusty Newcomer Location: sydney Registered: December 2002	Re: TORQUE Tue, 24 June 2003 08:33 oldcorollas wrote on Tue, 24 June 2003 17:17 what you forget to mention is gearing. your electric motor idea. one motor, 1Nm@1000rpm, second = 1Nm@20000rpm. the second motor does indeed have more power, but if connected thru the same gearing, will have the same accelerative force at the wheels as the first motor. to use power effectively, you have to take advantage of GEARING. very true, so far. but you shot yourself in the foot there, as you seem to have forgotten to examine what happens when you gear the car so both those cars with their respective rpm are at the same "road speed"? when you drop the flag the car with the gearing set for the motor to turn 20,000rpm will leave the other car for dead. but the engines of both are still making only 1Nm. remember, torque has no motion. torque is simply twisting force. with motion comes power. if torque was all important, the f1 boys wouldnt bother with the huge hassle of engineering a motor to turn over 18,000rpm (theyre close to 19,000rpm this year). but they have a gearbox with more than 1 gear plus they know that power is what moves the car. oldcorollas wrote on Tue, 24 June 2003 17:17 the power issue is misinterpreted by many ppl to be most important. a famous quote(and i can't even remember who said it now..) was "power sells cars, torque wins races" and that is true. actually its not there are many sayings in the automotive world. another is that "there is no replacement for displacement". i wonder if you ascribe to that one also? oldcorollas wrote on Tue, 24 June 2003 17:17 BUT, for the same car speed, the F1 motor will have a GEARING advantage of 3:1 over the normal car engine, and so the TORQUE AT THE WHEELS will be 3 times higher, so for a given car mass, will accellerate 3 times faster. it perplexes me that you mistake power for torque above, yet go on to state the following .... oldcorollas wrote on Tue, 24 June 2003 17:17 two cars with identical POWER at different rpm, at the same road speed, will accelerate at the same rate, since GEARING multiplies the torque of the motor with higher rpm at same power. clearly power is accelleration, not torque. you even said it yourself. ever wonder why engineers look at power to weight, to gauge performance, and car mags list power to weight among a cars spec? because acceleration is the result of power to weight. and because torque to weight is irrelevant i occasionally marvel that such a simple issue as this is so commonly misunderstood. the reason is that a lot of people with only a loose grasp of the concepts try to explain on forums such as these, yet keep contracdicting themselves. its no wonder then that the novice becomes confused. [Report message to a moderator]

	Subject	Poster	Date
	TORQUE	BAD22	Sat, 21 June 2003 04:43
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Sat, 21 June 2003 07:20
	Re: TORQUE	trent_kershaw	Sat, 21 June 2003 09:52
	Re: TORQUE	wilbo666	Sat, 21 June 2003 12:29
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Sat, 21 June 2003 13:06
	Re: TORQUE	TA22-3SGTE	Sat, 21 June 2003 13:20
	Re: TORQUE	gianttomato	Sun, 22 June 2003 02:18
	Re: TORQUE	rusty	Mon, 23 June 2003 19:37
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Tue, 24 June 2003 01:57
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Tue, 24 June 2003 07:17
	Re: TORQUE	rusty	Tue, 24 June 2003 08:33
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Tue, 24 June 2003 09:32
	Re: TORQUE	gianttomato	Tue, 24 June 2003 09:42
	Re: TORQUE	Gremlin	Thu, 26 June 2003 02:16
	Re: TORQUE	rusty	Tue, 24 June 2003 10:29
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Tue, 24 June 2003 11:12
	Re: TORQUE	gianttomato	Tue, 24 June 2003 11:46
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Tue, 24 June 2003 12:01
	Re: TORQUE	trent_kershaw	Tue, 24 June 2003 14:03
	Re: TORQUE	NO-18r	Sat, 21 June 2003 08:48
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Sat, 21 June 2003 08:49
	Re: TORQUE	manipulate	Sat, 21 June 2003 08:51
	Re: TORQUE	manipulate	Sat, 21 June 2003 13:10
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Sat, 21 June 2003 13:12
	Re: TORQUE	cam_RA40	Sat, 21 June 2003 23:17
	Re: TORQUE	JDM hachi	Sat, 21 June 2003 22:52
	Re: TORQUE	manipulate	Sun, 22 June 2003 01:55
	Re: TORQUE	charliechalk	Sun, 22 June 2003 11:26
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Sun, 22 June 2003 15:58
	Re: TORQUE	gianttomato	Mon, 23 June 2003 01:05
	Re: TORQUE	charliechalk	Mon, 23 June 2003 08:06
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Mon, 23 June 2003 10:00
	Re: TORQUE	Super Jamie	Tue, 24 June 2003 11:04
	Re: TORQUE	kingmick	Tue, 24 June 2003 12:18
	Re: TORQUE	THE WITZL	Tue, 24 June 2003 12:27
	Re: TORQUE	trent_kershaw	Tue, 24 June 2003 12:44
	Re: TORQUE	THE WITZL	Tue, 24 June 2003 13:06
	Re: TORQUE	rusty	Tue, 24 June 2003 16:35
	Re: TORQUE	juzzo84	Tue, 24 June 2003 21:08
	Re: TORQUE	boudan	Tue, 24 June 2003 22:49
	Re: TORQUE	Super Jamie	Wed, 25 June 2003 07:26
	Re: TORQUE and shite stirring	oldcorollas	Wed, 25 June 2003 12:27
	Re: TORQUE and shite stirring	oldcorollas	Wed, 25 June 2003 12:36
	Re: TORQUE	boudan	Thu, 26 June 2003 00:37
	Re: TORQUE	bayka	Wed, 25 June 2003 17:41
	Re: TORQUE	Norbie	Wed, 25 June 2003 22:37
	Re: TORQUE	dar_sbb	Thu, 26 June 2003 01:58
	Re: TORQUE	bayka	Thu, 26 June 2003 05:49
	Re: flat TORQUE curves	oldcorollas	Thu, 26 June 2003 06:23
	Re: flat TORQUE curves	Nark	Thu, 26 June 2003 06:45
	Re: flat TORQUE curves	oldcorollas	Thu, 26 June 2003 07:03

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