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oldcorollas Forums Junkie Location: Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan Registered: January 2003	Re: TORQUE Tue, 24 June 2003 11:12 rusty wrote on Tue, 24 June 2003 20:29 "identical power" ... "accelerate at the same rate". that;s the whole frickin point dude, wake up!!! do some equations and get back to me "F1 has 3 times power because of higher rpm." "F1 car acclerates 3 times faster." again, that's the whole point, if you gear a car to take advatage of the rpm at which it makes peak torque, you get gearing advantages. rusty wrote on Tue, 24 June 2003 20:29 now allow me to pose an alternative question. one engine with 500lb/ft of torque and only 100hp, another engine with 500hp but only 100lb/ft of torque. both engines in two completely identical cars, with the only exception being gearing, any gearing being allowed. you tell me which car will be quicker. if you still think its car a, im afraid there is no hope for you. LOL ROTFL so you want me to take a car with 9.5hp (500lb/ft@100rpm) and race you with a car with 500hp (100lb/ft@26260rpm dude lay off the drugs, who the heck do you think would win??? i'm saying that if you had that 500hp 26260rpm monster of a motor (which by the way, would be a 740cc under 100% efficiency) and raced me with a 100rpm motor with 26260lb/ft (which would be an ideal 196L motor), then we would have an even race.... this is because when all is said and done and you gear the motors down, they have the same torque at the rear axle and the same force at the tyres. please get this idea. it hurts that you can't grasp it rusty wrote on Tue, 24 June 2003 20:29 this is good. however the first part (and i quote again; "the TORQUE an engine makes and the ENGINE SPEED (rpm) that it makes it at") equals power. funny that. well duh, that's what i've been saying all along. how do you calculate the acceleration of anything? F=MA how do you work out what the force at a tyre contact patch is? F=TQ/wheel radius how do you work out axle torque? engine torque x gearing. but how do you work out power? hp = ((lb/ft)xrpm/5252 or (lb/ft) = (hpx5252)/rpm how do you work out power at rear axle hp/gearing tyre contact force, F = (engine torque) x gearing/wheel radius how do you work out power at rear axle hp/gearing lets take two motors with same power, one at 5000rpm, one at 10000rpm, the 10000rpm motor is geared at 2:1 compared to 5000rpm one for 10000rpm axle hp = hp/2 for 5000rpm axle hp = hp since (lb/ft) = (hpx5252)/rpm for 10000rpm lb/ft = (hpx2626)/rpm for 5000rpm lb/ft = (hpx5252)/rpm now since F = (engine torque) x gearing/wheel radius for 10000rpm F= (((hpx2626)/rpm) x 2)/wheel radius F=((hpx5252)/rpm)/wheel radius for 5000rpm F= (((hpx5252)/rpm) x 1)/wheel radius F=((hpx5252)/rpm)/wheel radius and whoop de doo, they are the same. same force at tyre for same POWER, even tho the 10000rpm engne has half the torque as the 5000rpm one.... they still accelerate at the same rate now please show me your calculations to disprove that two cars with identical POWER, but different TORQUE, when gearing is made to equal the top speed of both motors, will not have the same acceleration.. i dare you.. no i double dare you to brign those calculations to the forum, or even dyno day (if you will show up) you can't accept that a motor with twice the torque but half the revs and half the gearing accelerates at the same speed as one with half the torque, double the revs and double the gearing... fcs, i agree with you that more power = faster acceleration, but this does not happen unless you change gearing. and in the real world there are only a certain number of ratios you can choose. do you change you diff everytime you increase the rpm range of your motor? (i actually did when i cammed my 4K, i put a 4.33 instead of a 4.11, TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF GEARING!!!) please check the clacs above and show me how what i have said is incorrect from a mathematical standpoint. Cya at the dyno day (i assume you are coming?) Stewart [Report message to a moderator]

	Subject	Poster	Date
	TORQUE	BAD22	Sat, 21 June 2003 04:43
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Sat, 21 June 2003 07:20
	Re: TORQUE	trent_kershaw	Sat, 21 June 2003 09:52
	Re: TORQUE	wilbo666	Sat, 21 June 2003 12:29
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Sat, 21 June 2003 13:06
	Re: TORQUE	TA22-3SGTE	Sat, 21 June 2003 13:20
	Re: TORQUE	gianttomato	Sun, 22 June 2003 02:18
	Re: TORQUE	rusty	Mon, 23 June 2003 19:37
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Tue, 24 June 2003 01:57
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Tue, 24 June 2003 07:17
	Re: TORQUE	rusty	Tue, 24 June 2003 08:33
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Tue, 24 June 2003 09:32
	Re: TORQUE	gianttomato	Tue, 24 June 2003 09:42
	Re: TORQUE	Gremlin	Thu, 26 June 2003 02:16
	Re: TORQUE	rusty	Tue, 24 June 2003 10:29
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Tue, 24 June 2003 11:12
	Re: TORQUE	gianttomato	Tue, 24 June 2003 11:46
	Re: TORQUE	oldcorollas	Tue, 24 June 2003 12:01
	Re: TORQUE	trent_kershaw	Tue, 24 June 2003 14:03
	Re: TORQUE	NO-18r	Sat, 21 June 2003 08:48
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Sat, 21 June 2003 08:49
	Re: TORQUE	manipulate	Sat, 21 June 2003 08:51
	Re: TORQUE	manipulate	Sat, 21 June 2003 13:10
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Sat, 21 June 2003 13:12
	Re: TORQUE	cam_RA40	Sat, 21 June 2003 23:17
	Re: TORQUE	JDM hachi	Sat, 21 June 2003 22:52
	Re: TORQUE	manipulate	Sun, 22 June 2003 01:55
	Re: TORQUE	charliechalk	Sun, 22 June 2003 11:26
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Sun, 22 June 2003 15:58
	Re: TORQUE	gianttomato	Mon, 23 June 2003 01:05
	Re: TORQUE	charliechalk	Mon, 23 June 2003 08:06
	Re: TORQUE	BAD22	Mon, 23 June 2003 10:00
	Re: TORQUE	Super Jamie	Tue, 24 June 2003 11:04
	Re: TORQUE	kingmick	Tue, 24 June 2003 12:18
	Re: TORQUE	THE WITZL	Tue, 24 June 2003 12:27
	Re: TORQUE	trent_kershaw	Tue, 24 June 2003 12:44
	Re: TORQUE	THE WITZL	Tue, 24 June 2003 13:06
	Re: TORQUE	rusty	Tue, 24 June 2003 16:35
	Re: TORQUE	juzzo84	Tue, 24 June 2003 21:08
	Re: TORQUE	boudan	Tue, 24 June 2003 22:49
	Re: TORQUE	Super Jamie	Wed, 25 June 2003 07:26
	Re: TORQUE and shite stirring	oldcorollas	Wed, 25 June 2003 12:27
	Re: TORQUE and shite stirring	oldcorollas	Wed, 25 June 2003 12:36
	Re: TORQUE	boudan	Thu, 26 June 2003 00:37
	Re: TORQUE	bayka	Wed, 25 June 2003 17:41
	Re: TORQUE	Norbie	Wed, 25 June 2003 22:37
	Re: TORQUE	dar_sbb	Thu, 26 June 2003 01:58
	Re: TORQUE	bayka	Thu, 26 June 2003 05:49
	Re: flat TORQUE curves	oldcorollas	Thu, 26 June 2003 06:23
	Re: flat TORQUE curves	Nark	Thu, 26 June 2003 06:45
	Re: flat TORQUE curves	oldcorollas	Thu, 26 June 2003 07:03

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