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shoot Regular Registered: April 2004	Re: Commadores annoy me Tue, 03 August 2004 10:57 Beer_is_good wrote on Tue, 03 August 2004 20:46 Hmmm, this thread just turned bad. There was a generalization made that Commodore drivers act like fools, think they are all Mark Skaife and believe they have the best car on the road... that's a pretty accurate generalization too. Gary and tyottsoarer, sort your differences out with private messages if you wish, this is a Holden bagging thread!! As for the flaws: -Shiny shell over a clearly family car chassis -Engine is a joke, wild tolerances, bad design/materials, pushrod engines are limited, general quality stinks -This carries on to driveline, the auto shifting is harsh to say the least, noisy and vibrates a lot, manual transmissions lack confidence, etc. -Electronics, wow, what a disaster -Steering, suspension, loose, weak, badly tuned -Interior is probably the best bit of the car though still mostly sucks -Power, driveability, they all sound exactly the same -General build quality is severely lacking, I've heard a lot of bad news and had first-hand experience with my Camira (the worst), Kingswoods and Commodores. Design is poor, where a Toyota engine bay is logical, innovative and practical, a Holden engine bay is 'put the engine there and try to fit everything else in, never mind if hte wires change colours'. The list could go on, but the basic theme is poor design, poor build quality, and incorrect application (ie trying to turn a family car into a sports/performance car). The VL had the best engine of the lot, even though it's just a Nissan it sh-ts on anything Holden ever made. The Monaro... I don't know, I think Holden almost made an alright car there, CONCEPTUALLY, even if they lack the build quality still and the new ones are two-door Commodores. Just my 2c... Adrian mmmm your Just my 2c... so there no flaws there your flaws on the car ok now listed all the toyota flaws [Report message to a moderator]

	Subject	Poster	Date
	Commadores annoy me	tyottsoarer	Mon, 02 August 2004 14:22
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Chris Davey	Mon, 02 August 2004 15:00
	Re: Commadores annoy me	SIMDOG	Tue, 03 August 2004 02:32
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Beer_is_good	Mon, 02 August 2004 20:44
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Jag7799	Tue, 03 August 2004 03:53
	Re: Commadores annoy me	tyottsoarer	Tue, 03 August 2004 04:31
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Jag7799	Tue, 03 August 2004 04:48
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Beer_is_good	Tue, 03 August 2004 06:26
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Jag7799	Tue, 03 August 2004 06:39
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Tue, 03 August 2004 07:22
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Tue, 03 August 2004 07:51
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Beer_is_good	Tue, 03 August 2004 08:06
	Re: Commadores annoy me	tyottsoarer	Tue, 03 August 2004 08:10
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Tue, 03 August 2004 09:05
	Re: Commadores annoy me	jesseT18	Tue, 03 August 2004 08:32
	Re: Commadores annoy me	tyottsoarer	Tue, 03 August 2004 09:13
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Tue, 03 August 2004 09:24
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Tue, 03 August 2004 09:42
	Re: Commadores annoy me	tyottsoarer	Tue, 03 August 2004 09:33
	Re: Commadores annoy me	gary	Tue, 03 August 2004 09:58
	Re: Commadores annoy me	tyottsoarer	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:08
	Re: Commadores annoy me	gary	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:19
	Re: Commadores annoy me	gary	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:20
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Skein	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:24
	Re: Commadores annoy me	gary	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:27
	Re: Commadores annoy me	dimmy77_03	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:08
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:33
	Re: Commadores annoy me	tyottsoarer	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:18
	Re: Commadores annoy me	gary	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:22
	Re: Commadores annoy me	tyottsoarer	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:28
	Re: Commadores annoy me	gary	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:32
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Skein	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:37
	Re: Commadores annoy me	WiLo	Wed, 11 August 2004 01:03
	Re: Commadores annoy me	tyottsoarer	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:39
	Re: Commadores annoy me	dimmy77_03	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:41
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:52
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:46
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:55
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Beer_is_good	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:46
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:57
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Tue, 03 August 2004 11:17
	Re: Commadores annoy me	bowlsclubboy	Sun, 26 September 2004 11:46
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Beer_is_good	Tue, 03 August 2004 10:58
	Re: Commadores annoy me	rthy	Tue, 03 August 2004 11:19
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Tue, 03 August 2004 11:14
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Beer_is_good	Tue, 03 August 2004 11:18
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Tue, 03 August 2004 11:34
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Tue, 03 August 2004 11:48
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Beer_is_good	Tue, 03 August 2004 11:25
	Re: Commadores annoy me	rthy	Tue, 03 August 2004 11:30
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Tue, 03 August 2004 11:59
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Beer_is_good	Tue, 03 August 2004 12:06
	Re: Commadores annoy me	gary	Tue, 03 August 2004 12:27
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Bradelz	Thu, 12 August 2004 07:37
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Fri, 13 August 2004 01:12
	Re: Commadores annoy me	tyottsoarer	Tue, 03 August 2004 12:48
	Re: Commadores annoy me	gary	Tue, 03 August 2004 22:17
	Re: Commadores annoy me	dimmy77_03	Tue, 03 August 2004 13:00
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Tue, 03 August 2004 15:53
	Re: Commadores annoy me	coronamark2	Wed, 04 August 2004 00:53
	Re: Commadores annoy me	tyottsoarer	Wed, 04 August 2004 01:35
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Chris Davey	Wed, 04 August 2004 01:57
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Beer_is_good	Wed, 04 August 2004 02:11
	Re: Commadores annoy me	tyottsoarer	Wed, 04 August 2004 02:23
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Wed, 04 August 2004 05:13
	Re: Commadores annoy me	TitMeat	Tue, 21 September 2004 17:43
	Re: Commadores annoy me	wagonist	Wed, 04 August 2004 03:28
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Mookie	Wed, 04 August 2004 05:33
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Wed, 04 August 2004 08:57
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Benjamin	Wed, 04 August 2004 06:20
	Re: Commadores annoy me	truenosedan	Sun, 08 August 2004 08:34
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Sun, 08 August 2004 09:48
	Re: Commadores annoy me	truenosedan	Wed, 11 August 2004 04:41
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Arch	Wed, 04 August 2004 09:07
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Mookie	Wed, 04 August 2004 09:17
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Wed, 04 August 2004 10:26
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Mookie	Wed, 04 August 2004 10:42
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Jag7799	Wed, 04 August 2004 11:52
	Re: Commodores annoy me	Billy-Mason PI	Thu, 05 August 2004 22:21
	Re: Commodores annoy me	mick	Fri, 06 August 2004 04:51
	Re: Commadores annoy me	2tg-ta22	Fri, 06 August 2004 08:43
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Fri, 06 August 2004 22:42
	Re: Commadores annoy me	2tg-ta22	Fri, 06 August 2004 08:46
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Jag7799	Fri, 06 August 2004 12:45
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Beer_is_good	Fri, 06 August 2004 10:40
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Mookie	Sat, 07 August 2004 04:45
	Re: Commadores annoy me	2tg-ta22	Sat, 07 August 2004 08:08
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Beer_is_good	Sun, 08 August 2004 02:12
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Sun, 08 August 2004 03:11
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Chris Davey	Sun, 08 August 2004 06:12
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Sun, 08 August 2004 07:04
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Sun, 08 August 2004 23:30
	Re: Commadores annoy me	2tg-ta22	Sun, 08 August 2004 08:47
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Beer_is_good	Sun, 08 August 2004 13:18
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Chris Davey	Mon, 09 August 2004 02:31
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Mon, 09 August 2004 03:05
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Billy-Mason PI	Mon, 09 August 2004 22:31
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Mon, 09 August 2004 23:47
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Billy-Mason PI	Tue, 10 August 2004 00:36
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Evan	Tue, 10 August 2004 00:56
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Tue, 10 August 2004 02:28
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Billy-Mason PI	Tue, 10 August 2004 02:53
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Tue, 10 August 2004 03:10
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Tue, 10 August 2004 03:36
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Billy-Mason PI	Tue, 10 August 2004 04:25
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Tue, 10 August 2004 04:32
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Tue, 10 August 2004 04:37
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Billy-Mason PI	Tue, 10 August 2004 04:48
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Tue, 10 August 2004 05:20
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Billy-Mason PI	Tue, 10 August 2004 22:07
	Re: Commadores annoy me	dimmy77_03	Wed, 11 August 2004 01:16
	Re: Commadores annoy me	rvrolla	Wed, 11 August 2004 00:28
	Re: Commadores annoy me	2tg-ta22	Tue, 10 August 2004 07:20
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Billy-Mason PI	Wed, 11 August 2004 01:42
	Re: Commadores annoy me	rvrolla	Wed, 11 August 2004 01:53
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Wed, 11 August 2004 05:07
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Billy-Mason PI	Wed, 11 August 2004 06:43
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Wed, 11 August 2004 06:58
	Re: Commadores annoy me	2tg-ta22	Wed, 11 August 2004 08:26
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Wed, 11 August 2004 14:34
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Wed, 11 August 2004 08:32
	Re: Commadores annoy me	2tg-ta22	Wed, 11 August 2004 09:41
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Wed, 11 August 2004 10:12
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Beer_is_good	Thu, 12 August 2004 00:42
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Thu, 12 August 2004 08:03
	Re: Commadores annoy me	shoot	Thu, 12 August 2004 02:41
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Thu, 12 August 2004 03:52
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Mookie	Thu, 12 August 2004 07:46
	Re: Commadores annoy me	2tg-ta22	Thu, 12 August 2004 10:29
	Re: Commadores annoy me	M Diddy	Fri, 13 August 2004 06:45
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Major Clod	Fri, 13 August 2004 14:18
	Re: Commadores annoy me	dimmy77_03	Fri, 13 August 2004 14:21
	Re: Commadores annoy me	dimmy77_03	Fri, 13 August 2004 14:23
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Mookie	Fri, 13 August 2004 17:37
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Mookie	Fri, 13 August 2004 17:37
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Sat, 14 August 2004 14:24
	Re: Commadores annoy me	truenosedan	Mon, 16 August 2004 01:22
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Mon, 16 August 2004 01:47
	Re: Commadores annoy me	M Diddy	Mon, 16 August 2004 03:23
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Mon, 16 August 2004 03:41
	Re: Commadores annoy me	M Diddy	Mon, 16 August 2004 03:58
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Mon, 16 August 2004 04:37
	Re: Commadores annoy me	M Diddy	Mon, 16 August 2004 17:37
	Re: Commodores annoy me	Benno	Wed, 01 September 2004 05:40
	Re: Commodores annoy me	mick	Thu, 02 September 2004 06:26
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Corona RT142	Fri, 03 September 2004 05:59
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Sun, 12 September 2004 04:29
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Shraka	Fri, 03 September 2004 19:14
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Mookie	Sun, 19 September 2004 01:20
	Re: Commadores annoy me	captain chaos	Tue, 21 September 2004 11:58
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Sun, 26 September 2004 22:49
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Sat, 02 October 2004 23:23
	Re: Commadores annoy me	thu187	Thu, 30 September 2004 08:05
	Re: Commadores annoy me	bowlsclubboy	Thu, 30 September 2004 10:19
	Re: Commadores annoy me	org86t	Fri, 01 October 2004 13:31
	Re: Commadores annoy me	peeack	Sun, 03 October 2004 11:09
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Mon, 04 October 2004 00:15
	Re: Commadores annoy me	MR 1JZ	Tue, 05 October 2004 06:38
	Re: Commadores annoy me	ae82	Tue, 05 October 2004 05:59
	Re: Commadores annoy me	GTStar	Tue, 05 October 2004 09:14
	Re: Commadores annoy me	rthy	Wed, 06 October 2004 00:46
	Re: Commadores annoy me	bubbles	Thu, 07 October 2004 11:51
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Corona RT142	Wed, 06 October 2004 03:23
	Re: Commadores annoy me	hemi twofifteen turbo	Thu, 07 October 2004 11:40
	Re: Commadores annoy me	lumpy	Sat, 09 October 2004 08:48
	Re: Commadores annoy me	hemi twofifteen turbo	Sat, 09 October 2004 17:35
	Re: Commadores annoy me	hemi twofifteen turbo	Thu, 07 October 2004 12:21
	Re: Commadores annoy me	org86t	Fri, 08 October 2004 03:39
	Re: Commadores annoy me	org86t	Tue, 19 October 2004 14:10
	Re: Commadores annoy me	org86t	Fri, 08 October 2004 03:42
	Re: Commadores annoy me	org86t	Sun, 10 October 2004 12:41
	Re: Commadores annoy me	HyDrA	Wed, 20 October 2004 00:50
	Re: Commadores annoy me	mick	Wed, 20 October 2004 02:27
	Re: Commadores annoy me	HyDrA	Wed, 20 October 2004 04:12
	Re: Commadores annoy me	adamb131	Thu, 21 October 2004 08:31
	Re: Commadores annoy me	Arch	Thu, 21 October 2004 13:20

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