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quest Regular Location: u.s.a. south Registered: April 2004	Re: Best 4AGE for boost? Wed, 18 May 2005 12:35 >>"the general concensus amongst car modifiers is that americans have some sort of crazy love for them which we just cant understand nor justify." --------------------- maybe americans love things that simply work.... at a helluva bargain. For example, the mitsu 2L runs exactly like stock. Goes thru cold start, idles up for ac, knock sensor works perfect, etc... The safc is owner tuned and installed in minutes. Standalone ain't. Once 'dailed in', operation is transparent despite lower resolution. No bitchin' up a loom or custom one. No paying $$$$ for any installer or tuner Enables a 100k+ mile, stock internal motor to propell a 3300 pound hull to 11sec ETs reliably. So you find that approach "crazy" ? What makes more sense to you, is to yank out such a perfect running setup, that delivers loads of fun and has surpassed performance expectatoins, eh.... then you take apart an equally good performing motor to build it up, for no reason ?? And no, standalone will NOT be "far better" here. You pick up a tool to do a job. Piggybacks have their place and they outsell everything else, for a reason. This applies to mitsu, nissan, toy, mazda, honda...... Take a B13 sr20 nissan sentra 9.5:1 and bolt on a bluebird t25 & manifold. Replace the 260cc with used 370cc. Hack a s14 afm or use another nissan unit. Add a fmic. Tune via a $250 safc. That daily driver runs flawless, and you've just dropped your et from 15.8s to 13.2-12.8s .... but you can't understand why its so popular ? I can go on forever with examples, but it'd be pointless. Bottom line is, the majority of power comes from fuel and timing. >>"i shudder at your neighbours ignition timing being left unchanged." -------------------- he knows what he's doing. Road tuned/plug read. Dial the base timing back a bit (gives up a minor bit of response, but......) Timing control is only an inexpensive MSD "boost timing master" away, if he wanted. Provides an adjustable igniton retard curve under boost. Ran the same 4ag @14psi on race gas. Even with (deliberate) tire spin, the torque still smoked the tranny. >>"but FFS why spend $10,000 on an engine and then decide that a US$1700 Autronic is too much" ------------------- most folks this side would say why spend $10k on a motor period! How much sense does that make, when the factory did such a great job already, and its proven to make more power reliably than your goal? Sure, for hardcore 10/11sec street car performance, go all out $$$, but I think you've disregarded a major segment of the car enthusiast - those who want nothing more than a reasonably fast street car.... u know, perhaps like the audience in this thread. Until you approach the limits of a piggyback or oe mgmt etc, OR get to the point where you're trying to extract 'big numbers', the benefits of standalone may not justify the cost. On the question of the ca18det. Yes, some folks get upset. Who cares? Thats really 'their' problem, not ours I have a complete drivetrain that will end up in a corolla. If after sick performance, it makes far more sense for me to swap than throw money at a 4ag & standalone. It already has a stout gbox and I'm sure, on stock innards/nissan $150 chipped ecu, it'll make more torque and dust *most* 'built' 4ag + ecu. They'll spend more and run no better or faster. I plan to run the SMT6 on my map ecu turbo 4ag project. Costs $350, does fuel and timing 16x16 maps, via laptop [Report message to a moderator]

	Subject	Poster	Date
	Best 4AGE for boost?	frontspinner	Wed, 11 May 2005 08:53
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	frontspinner	Wed, 11 May 2005 11:28
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	4agte	Wed, 11 May 2005 11:42
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	Big T	Wed, 11 May 2005 12:03
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	feral4mr2	Wed, 11 May 2005 12:48
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	THE WITZL	Wed, 11 May 2005 13:19
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	dingaling	Thu, 12 May 2005 06:11
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	4agte	Thu, 12 May 2005 06:30
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	dingaling	Thu, 12 May 2005 06:37
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	4agte	Thu, 12 May 2005 08:55
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	ROLLA GTi	Thu, 12 May 2005 09:23
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	cri_ag	Thu, 12 May 2005 08:05
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	frontspinner	Thu, 12 May 2005 08:11
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	fatmr2	Thu, 12 May 2005 09:33
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	frontspinner	Thu, 12 May 2005 10:17
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	fatmr2	Thu, 12 May 2005 10:25
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	frontspinner	Thu, 12 May 2005 11:04
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	Big T	Thu, 12 May 2005 12:15
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	4agte	Thu, 12 May 2005 14:50
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	4agte	Thu, 12 May 2005 14:54
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	feral4mr2	Fri, 13 May 2005 11:31
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	4agte	Fri, 13 May 2005 11:39
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	fatmr2	Fri, 13 May 2005 15:02
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	4agte	Fri, 13 May 2005 16:42
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	Big T	Thu, 12 May 2005 15:15
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	4agte	Thu, 12 May 2005 21:59
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	fatmr2	Fri, 13 May 2005 05:44
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	quest	Fri, 13 May 2005 20:05
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	fatmr2	Fri, 13 May 2005 23:34
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	4agte	Fri, 13 May 2005 23:35
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	4agte	Fri, 13 May 2005 23:52
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	feral4mr2	Sat, 14 May 2005 03:30
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	OUTRUN	Sat, 14 May 2005 05:13
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	Rallystanza	Fri, 13 May 2005 23:50
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	fatmr2	Sat, 14 May 2005 00:09
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	monkeymajik	Sat, 14 May 2005 00:09
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	fatmr2	Sat, 14 May 2005 00:10
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	quest	Sat, 14 May 2005 06:32
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	fatmr2	Sat, 14 May 2005 07:44
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	OUTRUN	Sat, 14 May 2005 08:00
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	feral4mr2	Sat, 14 May 2005 08:18
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	OUTRUN	Sat, 14 May 2005 08:46
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	Big T	Sat, 14 May 2005 09:29
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	fatmr2	Sat, 14 May 2005 15:49
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	4agte	Sat, 14 May 2005 08:38
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	TE72_Turbo	Sat, 14 May 2005 08:12
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	quest	Sat, 14 May 2005 14:26
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	OUTRUN	Sat, 14 May 2005 15:01
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	THE WITZL	Sat, 14 May 2005 15:20
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	OUTRUN	Sat, 14 May 2005 15:26
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	quest	Sun, 15 May 2005 04:17
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	frontspinner	Tue, 17 May 2005 10:43
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	Big T	Tue, 17 May 2005 10:59
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	frontspinner	Tue, 17 May 2005 11:58
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	Big T	Tue, 17 May 2005 23:58
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	THE WITZL	Tue, 17 May 2005 16:41
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	frontspinner	Wed, 18 May 2005 02:26
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	OUTRUN	Wed, 18 May 2005 12:40
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	fatmr2	Wed, 18 May 2005 13:06
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	OUTRUN	Wed, 18 May 2005 16:52
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	quest	Wed, 18 May 2005 12:35
	Re: Best 4AGE for boost?	frontspinner	Thu, 19 May 2005 02:07

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