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thechuckster
Forums Junkie

Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
February 2003

Re: Videos and pictures of a running Bourke Engine...

Wed, 26 October 2005 01:54

Shraka wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 10:33

thechuckster wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 10:12

burning hydrogen gas for energy is inefficient - very inefficient.

Weight-for-weight, burning your own farts would release more energy (as heat) than hydrogen.

The only reason you'd have hydrogen-powered cars is if they have fuel cells - gizmos that produce electricity from a chemical reaction - that drive electric motors.

These threads are nothing but bullshit/FUD spreaders - i vote BAN+LOCK.

Oh realy? Okay then, that changes my view on things. Oh, you might want to send BMW an email telling them that, 'cuz they seem to be wasting a lot of money developing their H2R Hydrogen Internal Combustion Engine powered car. Man if they knew about fart power they coulda saves a LOT of time and money!

Rolling Eyes

How about you just not post about things you know nothing about eh? That'd be handy.

seeing as you're obvisouly a shit-hot rocket scientist and i'm not... here's some basic research for you:

a google search for "release of energy from hydrogen" returns many hits relating to use of Hydrogen in vehicles for fuel cells not combustion - canned link for the lazy.

In a paper discussing the benefits of adding Hydrogen to Natural Gas supply system to potentially reduce NG use.

Quote:

Natural gas is actually methane, or CH4, a com-pound of one part C and two of H2. One part of H2 has roughly one third of the calorific value of CH4. This means that if you add ten per cent hydrogen (by volume) to the natural gas, you have added only three per cent energy value. In order to main-tain the same calorific value, you have to transport a much higher volume of gas

(see http://www.clubofamsterdam.com/content.asp?content id=353
Only someone with your expertise in gas combustion and transfer systems would realise that adding a relatively large amount of hydrogen to the NG combustion equation only results in a small addition of energy.

but the wikipedia seems to have done much of the work for us:
In the section called "Energies per unit mass" - it does list hydrogen as having a higher calorific value than petrol - but that's for liquid hydrogen, not the gas

Quote:

hydrogen 120 MJ/kg
gasoline 44 MJ/kg

(from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energies_per_unit_mas s)

Important thing about hydrogen as a liquid - at normal temperatures is a gas and to exist as a liquid must be cooled to a very low temperature, 20.268 K (-423.188 °F). Liquid hydrogen has a very low density of 70.8 kg/m³ (at 20 K), so storage tanks for it have to be quite large...
(from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid_hydrogen)

Sure, BMW are using it but...

Quote:

Some hydrogen cars currently exist, and a significant amount of research is underway to make the technology more viable. The common internal combustion engine, usually fueled with gasoline (petrol) or diesel liquids, can be converted to run on gaseous hydrogen. However, the most efficient use of hydrogen involves the use of fuel cells and electric motors instead of a traditional engine.

(from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_car

so you don't think i'm relying on the wikipedia, here's what the autralian academy of science had to say about it:

Quote:

A futuristic filling station kept EXPO 2000's fleet of converted BMWs running. Drivers pulled up at the pump, pressed a button on their dashboard, and watched from inside the car as a laser-guided robotic arm connected the store of liquid hydrogen to their tank. Filling took about 3 minutes. It was wise to keep well out of the way, at minus 253ºC liquid hydrogen is unimaginably cold.

The special insulated tanks in the BMWs held 140 litres of hydrogen, enough to drive at least 300 kilometres. (That?s a reasonable range, although a 95 litre tank of petrol would take the same cars twice as far.) The hydrogen-powered marathon car at the Sydney Olympics also ran on liquid hydrogen. Its much smaller tank (75 litres) gave it a range of about 400 kilometres, a sign of the greater efficiency of fuel cell cars.

(underline is my ephasis, from http://www.science.org.au/nova/063/063key.htm)

Satisfied now that i've done some research for you?

And how about you not parrot vehicle-manufacturer propaganda back us? that would be even handier.

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