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oldcorollas
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January 2003

Re: Videos and pictures of a running Bourke Engine...

Wed, 26 October 2005 05:45

Shraka wrote on Wed, 26 October 2005 15:21

It can't be THAT stupid an idea, if BMW actualy has a car up and running that burns hydrogen.

So why are hot fuel cells not as good as cold fuel cells?
And what kinda power outputs are we talking from a hydrogen engine? How much of the car would have to be devoted to fuel cells?

as i said.. H2 is clean.. but it doesn't make it good Wink

hot fuel cells need to be hot. you need to heat them up
HOT.. as said below.. 550-1000C.. they need to be heated to that temp BEFORE they work!!
to be honest, i think the way forward is with safe fuels like methanol... easy to handle and store etc etc..

as for cars... the more fuel cells you stack, the higher the voltage... and they would be used to power electric motors, and use batteries as a storage mechanism....

basically, think of a fuel cell as a methanol/hydrogen powered battery that never runs out....
the main problem with electric cars now is that you need massive batteries to get anywhere... stick in a 100-200kw fuel cell, and 4 50kw electric motors.. and you are gold Razz

from http://www.cfcl.com.au/html/technology.htm

Quote:

Types and Applications of Fuel Cells
-------------------------------------------------- ---------

Different types of fuel cells

This table summarises the six different fuel cell types (characterised by their membrane types) and their suitable uses. It is obtained from one of CFCL's presentations (see under Seminars and Presentations).

Types and Efficiency of Fuel Cells

Alkaline (AFC)
Need pure hydrogen
30-40% efficiency
small portable generators 500 watts - 5 kW
used by NASA in Gemini and Apollo moon missions
Only a few companies in field

Proton Exchange Membrane (PEMFC)
Need pure hydrogen
30-35% efficiency
generally for cars and busses ~>250kW
many major companies in field including Ford, Daimler-Chrysler, Ballard

Phosphoric Acid (PAFC)
Corrosive Acid electrolyte
35-42% efficiency
large stationary base load power >200 kW
reducing number of companies in field

Direct Methanol (DMFC)
Use toxic fuel
40-50+ % efficiency
micro compact unit
microsystems ie laptops <10 watts
major companies include Toshiba

Molten Carbonate (MCFC)
Complicated management of corrosive material
50+, 65+ % efficiency
large stationary base load power 200kW to megawatts
few companies in field

Solid Oxide (SOFC) - as produced by CFCL
Range of low cost, available fuels include natural gas and renewable fuels (biomethane, ethanol)
50+ (70+) % efficiency
550-1000 °C operating temperature
small to mid-size stationary power, larger for base load 500 watts to 350kW
increasing number of companies in field

For still further information and diagrams refer to pgs 15-17, Fuel Cells; Power for the 21 st Century, US Dept of Energy, 2004.

Current applications of fuel cells

Fuel cell type (electrolytic membrane)
Applications

Polymer electrolytic membrane (PEMFC)
Transport, portable appliances, distributed generation

Alkaline (AFC)
Transport, space missions

Phosphoric Acid (PAFC)
Medium distributed generation

Molten Carbonate (MCFC)
Medium to large generation

Solid Oxide (SOFC)
Small to medium distributed generation, transport auxiliary power units

Quote:

The NASA alkaline fuel cell uses hydrogen and oxygen as fuel, and combines the two in electrochemical reactions. Out of this come three useful by-products: electricity to power the spacecraft; water for drinking and for cooling equipment; and heat to keep the astronauts from freezing in space.

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