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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Car alarm wiring
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Tue, 08 February 2005 23:12
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As my car draws closer to being back on the road, I have to start thinking about my new insurers (shannons) car alarm requirements.
One of their listed alarms is a Black Widow BW10000, which is available on EBAY at the moment. And it's specs are listed as follows:
* Remote controlled keys with rolling code (x2)
* Starter / fuel or ignition disable (2 immobiliser circuits onboard)
* Optional 3rd point immobiliser via external relay
* Silent auto engine disable after 45 seconds (fixed feature)
* All black wire harness (insurance company approved)
* Electronic Battery Backed up, 130db Siren included (not pictured)
* Complies with Insurance company guidelines for WRX and Jap import vehicles
* Audible and Visual arm / disarm and error chirps
* Silent arm/disarm via remote
* Passive / active arming
* Keyless entry (onboard lock/unlock relays for CDL)
* Covers doors, boot and bonnet (3 separate input circuits)
* Extra 2 stage input for external sensors i.e. movement sensor
* Electronic shock sensor / glass breakage (2 stage)
* Shock sensor disable via remote after arming
* Nuisance prevention circuitry
* Status indicator (LED)
* Valet / override switch
* Remote panic
* Illuminated entry (controls dome light, relay required)
* Programmable features
* Multi-car operation
* 2nd channel output for Boot release etc (parts maybe required)
* Perimeter nite-lite (holds indicators on for 30 seconds after disarm)
Now my questions are.....
1) Has anyone had any experience with these alarms, are they any good?
2) What sort of relay would be needed to 'enable' the third point of point immobilisation (shannons needs ignition, starter and fuel)
3) Would there be any way to hook it up to roll my electric windows up on arm. I currently have this feature and I love it.
4) Would I be able to use my existing siren? Or do alarms normally use a proprietary siren
Cheers,
Dave
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Tue, 08 February 2005 23:19
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| davedave wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 10:12 |
3) Would there be any way to hook it up to roll my electric windows up on arm. I currently have this feature and I love it.
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You can buy extermal modules that do this.
| davedave wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 10:12 |
4) Would I be able to use my existing siren? Or do alarms normally use a proprietary siren
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Sound be fine, they're just fed an electric signal AFAIK...
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Tue, 08 February 2005 23:45
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1. my experience with them = extensive. I've installed at least 50.
2. The BW10000 has a "negative when armed" output, allowing you to wire up a third immobilisation relay.
3. Yes, with an external module. Jaycar will soon be stocking these (thus i can supply)
4. Yes, but i wouldn't. The BW10000 has a VERY good battery backup siren which i found to be very durable, neat, and best up - black wired.
FINAL POINT Any alarm is only as good as the installation job performed. If you want a good install, drop me a line - auto electricians and 95% of the alarm installers out there are useless and a waste of time and money.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Wed, 09 February 2005 04:00
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conversion wiring is also a forte of mine dudey. I can help you out there too.
Just gimme a yell if you get stuck with either. Best way is to install the alarm with the conversion wiring to integrate the two and make it a fucking bitch for any would be theif.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Wed, 09 February 2005 05:27
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Thanks for the offer Karl, I'll yell out if I get stuck.
I'd much rather employ the help of someone with an interest in custom jobs, than someone who just does it for a living.
I have a couple of spare cut looms, so I have been able to replace all of the missing connectors. The real fun will begin when I have to start troubleshooting. I've had to replace a whole section of the loom as the quality of the wire was shocking in this certain place, so I can't wait to see how my solder/wrapping skills stand up 
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Wed, 09 February 2005 06:35
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Do they like brant alarms?
If so, i'd definately recommend them.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Wed, 09 February 2005 06:37
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Yep, and I like them too (had one on my last car)
But for $170, I can't pass this one up on ebay 
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Wed, 09 February 2005 06:51
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| davedave wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 16:27 |
Thanks for the offer Karl, I'll yell out if I get stuck.
I'd much rather employ the help of someone with an interest in custom jobs, than someone who just does it for a living.
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dude - i LIVE for the custom jobs. I dont by any means do this for a living, i work in an office as a purchasing officer 
This is my hobby, and im good at it.
I've done so many car alarms because i used to work as an installer when i was at uni and during the holidays, and took that knowledge and experience with me into my love of cars.
It's fun for me in some ways, and helps be get further into building my RA28
By no means is this my job!
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Wed, 09 February 2005 06:56
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| THE WITZL wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 16:51 |
| davedave wrote on Wed, 09 February 2005 16:27 |
Thanks for the offer Karl, I'll yell out if I get stuck.
I'd much rather employ the help of someone with an interest in custom jobs, than someone who just does it for a living.
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dude - i LIVE for the custom jobs. I dont by any means do this for a living, i work in an office as a purchasing officer
This is my hobby, and im good at it.
I've done so many car alarms because i used to work as an installer when i was at uni and during the holidays, and took that knowledge and experience with me into my love of cars.
It's fun for me in some ways, and helps be get further into building my RA28
By no means is this my job!
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Love this then: http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&t h=59137&start=0&rid=42&S=a20796f252c1a 19c52ff1e268259bf6f
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Wed, 09 February 2005 10:36
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i love the attitude of some of the tossers on this forum...
Witzl: PM'ed you with a Q.
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Location:
Bottom of the hill, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Wed, 09 February 2005 13:50
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i tried to make a broad generalized point in about 4 words, and of course it backfired, sorry 
My point was more that the majority of work i have seen i would not dare subject even pimp boy to, and yes thats coming from fully qualified auto electricians, and alarm installers.
my experience as an alarm installer taught me one thing. Most alarm installers are dodgy, and do bad work. So i taught myself through doing my own conversions, playing with other people's conversion, and doing a LOT of study and reading both at home and at uni (telecoms engineering).
By no means am i qualified. But by the same token, neither is one particular non-posting board member (who shall remain nameless), and yet 100% of the people who have had a wiring job done by him would say he is by far the best (i tend to agree too from what i have seen). I could say the same thing about many many many many other people who do "hobby jobs" for which they are not officially qualified for, and yet do much better work than most that are.
What im trying to say is, having a piece of paper is one thing, and doing a good job is another. At the end of the day it is your own personal choice what you want. Simple really.
and no offense taken I understood your point.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Thu, 10 February 2005 00:16
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BradW: I think the main point is that a job is done much better by someone who cares. And this is relevant to any industry.
And IMO, most qualified people do it for a living and unless they're getting paid by the hour, will usually do enough to get the job done. Extra care is useful for building a good reputation, not useful for a regular tradies back pocket.
Anyways, I scanned Shannons list of approved alarms in case anyone else needs to know (have to be faxed or mailed this list normally).
This is as of 09/02/2005
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Thu, 10 February 2005 05:54
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It may also be worth noting that the QLD electrical authority is much more strict on installations than any of the other states.
Funny thing is they are the least strict when it comes to approving the electrical safety of products themselves.
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Location:
Bottom of the hill, Sydney
Registered:
April 2004
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Thu, 10 February 2005 09:38
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Witzl: No worries, you just caught me on a bad day   .
Well I suppose from that reply everyone can guess what I do for a living now can't they .
davedave: I can't comment on any of those alarms on your list but I can say I have used the mongoose mx750 (I think this model has been replaced but I'm not sure what model replaced it). We have these in all our vehicles at work and I have also fitted one to my 4wd. They are good quality and have never given any trouble. They are also pretty easy to install.
| Quote: |
Best way is to install the alarm with the conversion wiring to integrate the two and make it a fucking bitch for any would be theif.
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This is an excellent suggestion from The Witzl. Anything you can do to slow down a would be theif is a bonus.
On a final note I must also apologize for taking this thread off topic.
Brad
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Thu, 10 February 2005 09:47
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heh heh, any thief that tries to hotwire my car is going to go "WTF". all wires are beefy and similr in colour, there is absolutely no stock wiring left, and the immobiliser/EFI/locking/everything else is so integrated, i'm glad i didn't have to troubleshoot 
as for "professionals" just because someone is paid to do something, and has the trade qualifications, doesn't automatically mean they have half an idea 
Mr Witzl and Mr Toobs, so that measn the jaycar immobilisers are not approved by shannons?
hmmmmmmmmm
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Thu, 10 February 2005 11:34
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they are "standards" approved, but what an insurer accepts is another thing entirely.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Fri, 11 February 2005 01:00
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| oldcorollas wrote on Thu, 10 February 2005 20:47 |
heh heh, any thief that tries to hotwire my car is going to go "WTF". all wires are beefy and similr in colour, there is absolutely no stock wiring left, and the immobiliser/EFI/locking/everything else is so integrated, i'm glad i didn't have to troubleshoot
as for "professionals" just because someone is paid to do something, and has the trade qualifications, doesn't automatically mean they have half an idea
Mr Witzl and Mr Toobs, so that measn the jaycar immobilisers are not approved by shannons?
hmmmmmmmmm
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Probably because they don't know you can wire a 3rd immobilisation point to it.
I'll tell you a little secret... that wire 9 that says "This wire is for future use" is a +ve armed output.
You now know the future use
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Mon, 14 February 2005 23:35
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Stupid question time.
With any sort of alarm that arms itself after a certain amount of time, how does this work with a turbo timer?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Tue, 15 February 2005 03:34
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dunno, i got a flashpoint V3 alarm in my car and i've got a jaycar turbo timer with an extra relay but i've got no bloody idea how its all going to fit together properly how do i bypass all 3 immobilisation points (starter,ignition,fuelpump) but keep the central locking lock/unlock via the keypad/fob thing and trick it into "arming"
job for a long weekend i think
also i think some insurance companys wont allow you to have a turbo timer? culd be wrong
Cheers
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Tue, 15 February 2005 07:21
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You have to bypass those immobilisation points and find a way to stop the alarm from seeing +12V on the ignition wire... relays, diodes etc. are your friends.
Just make sure the diodes can handle the current otherwise they might just be the undoing of your car.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Tue, 15 February 2005 07:28
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"find a way to stop the alarm from seeing +12V on the ignition wire"
wouldn't that be working against the functionality of the alarm though?
Would bypassing these immobilisation points leave yourself open for someone to hijack your turbo timer to run your car?
I think I might just warm it down the old school way.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Tue, 15 February 2005 07:31
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| davedave wrote on Tue, 15 February 2005 15:28 |
"find a way to stop the alarm from seeing +12V on the ignition wire"
wouldn't that be working against the functionality of the alarm though?
Would bypassing these immobilisation points leave yourself open for someone to hijack your turbo timer to run your car?
I think I might just warm it down the old school way.
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Yeah, but you can still arm the sensors etc. The alarm will go off if they try to get into the running car, and the relay will switch back to normal once it's idled the car long enough.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Tue, 15 February 2005 07:31
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| davedave wrote on Tue, 15 February 2005 18:28 |
Would bypassing these immobilisation points leave yourself open for someone to hijack your turbo timer to run your car?
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Yup.
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Location:
Newcastle
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Tue, 15 February 2005 21:31
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i know on the brant alarms they gave us the option of a turbo timer installed by them. given brant seem fairly anal about security im sure there should be a decent way to wire it in without comprimising the security. and other then relying on a would be theif tripping the motion sensors or the likes them trying to bypass the turbo timer.
also some units come with a built in turbo timer... irrc some of the viper or mongoose ones do...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Sun, 11 December 2005 09:44
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Is digging up an old thread OK if it's your own?
Anyways, finally doing the alarm (black widow bw10000) and I have a few questions for the black widow gurus (Witzl, I'm looking at you ).
1) What's the adjustable screw thing on the side of the box? pre-warn sensor sensitivity (shock sensitivity)?
2) What's the black and red singular wire that comes off the same side as the screw? Is this another (3rd) grounding wire or something like a -ve once armed (I'd love it to be so I can hook up my old power window module). - If it is just another earth wire, what do you usually connect the power window module to?
3) With the 2 immobiliser pairs of wires (2 x 2 wires), do these just provide continuity when the alarm is disabled? ie, do I just cut the ignition and starter wires and bridge each of them with one of the alarms pairs?
4) I read somewhere that I can sort of bypass the alarms central locking relays to use my existing ones by grounding the fused wires and connecting the yellow and white wires up to where my old alarm used to control them by, and the third wire for each the lock and unlock relay doesn't get used at all. Does this sound right? My old alarm just used to have two wires for this (no relays), one wire for lock and one wire for unlock.
The instructions are very lacking that come with the alarm, and there seems to be very little knowledge on the net about it.
Thanks again in advance.
Dave
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: Car alarm wiring
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Sun, 11 December 2005 12:42
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I'll take that as a "don't know"
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