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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2004
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race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Fri, 30 September 2005 19:26
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hi
anyone can give me some idea to set up a race car for sandown & PI for Levin AE101 to do a good lap time? my car under steering in sandown much. I cant catch a mirage cup car, they doing 1min 30 sec @ sandown. I only can do 1min 32 sec. my race car has about 105 kw at the front wheel, so it should be very competitive. Maybe driving skill problem or set up problem i guess.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Sat, 01 October 2005 06:58
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Is it understeer under power? Then it's probably just driver skill. Does your Corolla have an LSD? Might wanna try that so you put more power down.
If it's understeer under neutral or breaking, then you might wanna invest in a stronger rear sway bar.
Other than that, could just be springs aren't hard enough, car isn't low enough or light enough.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Sun, 02 October 2005 07:05
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Current Lap Record Is 1:28.9251 Set On 15/09/2001 By Andrew Taplin In A Mitsubishi Mirage
Maybe so more info on your current set up would give people a idea of how to better it .
But a mirage has a better engine 120+ fwkw , is lighter , had locked or expensive lsd's fitted , shit loads of camber due the front end suspension being of better design and drivers competing a whole year and having data from the years before .
So your up against a lot really .
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Tue, 04 October 2005 22:23
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has your car been on a diet yet?like removing all sound deadener and extra metal?has it got a fullcage?without the stiffness you will find it hard unless you have a major HP advantage,the car will flex so settings etc change all the time around the track making it hard to get consistancey.to get the balance right you need to move things like battery and fuel cell into the passanger rear,but this needs to be done on scales so you can get it set with you in it.camber,caster and toe will depend on practicing.good start would be 2-3 neg front camber,as much camber as offset bushes will give you,1-2 neg camber on the back{but this depends on front grip},toe in a bit for rear steer,this gives great turn in.fwd setup if front geometery critical for obvious reasons.
learning to drive a fwd properly is half the battle,it helps if you havnt done much racing in RWD as it has diffrent driving technic and reactions take time to change.getting a decent time on the track is easy,taking secounds of it is much harder and cost alot of time and money.then there is tire pressures and tire tech.etc etc etcetc etc etc
body flex will make it hard getting to the next level,as cosistancy is the name of the game.
mick
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Thu, 06 October 2005 14:48
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hi
thx for all of you guys ideas, my car is fully modified, and being used in vic state improved production race, it has roll cage, lsd, engine mod with toda parts,etc.........I will try more practice @ sandown. If i can do a better lap time, I will come back and tell u guys what i change. Also if u guys have some new ideas , plz let me know straight away. I know the mirage cup cars are strong and quick. I still beleive that toyota can beat mitsubishi. i need more support mate.......
cheers
duncan
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Thu, 06 October 2005 21:33
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Got pics??!!
Your doing good if you can keep with them!
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Fri, 07 October 2005 15:11
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I will make some changes on the suspension & tie prresure etc in next two weeks @ sandown, if any quicker or slower, i let u know.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Fri, 07 October 2005 15:36
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is anyone know what sort of gear ratio the mirages use: close ration by ralliart or stock? with lsd? what sort of power they have on dyno...........want to know more mirage set up & info etc..............
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Registered:
October 2005
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Wed, 12 October 2005 04:02
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Thought of adding some castor?
I've heard of 6 or more degrees of castor really helping turn in and general cornering ability.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Wed, 12 October 2005 08:06
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my ae82 just has suspensions reset
front : 400 pound springs , 25mm swaybars , -5,5 camber
rear : 275 pound springs , runs adjustable 18mm ( whiteline )swaybars -3 camber
at QR (cold) front left 24 , fr 25 , rear left 26 , rr 28 and after 10 laps all 4 will be approx 33
finer adjustment needed to the suspensions for better lap time
For a FWD you MUST have LSD , otherwise will understeer like shit
Duncan , I think I spoke to you re your TRD box & LSD early this year ..
mirage runs 205/50x15 tyres, you run 185or194/60x14 , they have better tyres , mirage weight 960kg.in IPRA trim and have exellent brakes and can brake very late into the corner
Racing car driver makes 70% of lap time in tight circuits. 
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Thu, 13 October 2005 13:57
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no race drivers make 99% of there time lapping virgins or trying to!lmao
mick
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Sat, 15 October 2005 01:07
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First of all you're lap times must be consistant, within 1/10 or two. Don't bother trying to set up anything until you have that consitancy. Check the lines the fast guys take.
FWD is a balance of front end grip and getting the rear to steer in unison with the front, always a compromise.
Toe and sway bars are obviously important but ultimate grip is the priority, think carefully about springs, go as soft as you can for ulimate grip.
Use a little camber as you can on the front (tyre dependant).
One trap to fall into is to brake too deep with FWD, set up the car for turn in and steady state cornering on throttle.
Work out ride height, rake and corner weights, try and get weight off the front wheels.
When you have good grip use shocks to refine turn in response and mid corner balance.
Use enough castor to feel comfortable with, no more don't be fighting the wheel, specially on tight tracks.
Generally be consistant start from soft settings and work out a balance. Work out a neutral easy to drive base line to go back to if you screw up settings.
Only make single adjustments at a time and keep a log.
Yeah, forgot to mention, read some good suspension books, get the dynamics in your head, work out roll centres, C of G height, wheel rates etc and understand what your car's trying to do and what you're trying to do to it.
$300 on books can save you thousands in testing and chasing your tail.
[Updated on: Sat, 15 October 2005 01:14]
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Mon, 17 October 2005 16:39
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actually , my car is fitted wilwood 4 spot calipers with 298mm EBC disc rotors & 650c Hawke pads, stock rear brake with EBC pads. Tyres are A032R 205/50/15 around. So I think I should have better brake set up than mirages.Cos they only have VR4 calipers for the front. For the weight my car just has about 1050Kg. I dont know why this new race car still slower than my Levin AE92 2dr, the old race car can do about 1.32sec easy @ sandown. The Ae101 doesnt really handle better than the old my box. I also have been told by someone that I can put 215/50/15 for the front wheel and more camber, and adjust the rear a bit higher. You think it will help much ?????? For the power compare to the mirages I think unless they have more than 10kw than my car. Anyway , Im going to the Masaratti car club @ sandown this weekend, I will try to make some changes on the settings. Hopefully, I can do something better.
RX3 IP, ar u also a member of improved production? Ar u coming to the Island Magic @ PI in Nov? I really want to beat the mirages, cos somebody told me to give up catching them, the reason is 4AGEs cant beat the VTEC & MIVEC. I think u guys will not agree that, right? Anyway, I will give up this years state champioship until I can do a better lap time. I wish i can do this before the beginning of 2006 state championship.
Once again thanks all your opinions
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Tue, 18 October 2005 03:19
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what revs are you taking it to?
fwd are very responsive to front geometery so your best bet is to pay the money and get a very good race engineer or chief who has done work with FWD.there are somethings that you wont learn for free and there isnt much writtern about FWD setups.learn to trail brake and brake deep to get in front then keep the line.braking late and deep is one of the best tools you can use,but make sure you can still keep a good apex.your going to be able to be a little faster out of the corners but never the same as a rwd etc.so, fast in and slow out and blocking{do it legal} out is another trick.trail breaking is the key,good setup will have the rear on the verge of coming out.it takes awhile in FWD to break RWD and natural habit of backing of if back comes out!you back of to bring the back out and feather power to control.always keep some power on and use your left foot breaking.takes awhile to get very good at it,but when you do your lap times will come down.big tip!dont go to hard on shocks and spings as you dont want your tires to do what a stone does over the water!
mick
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Tue, 18 October 2005 03:36
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horsepower is onething , braking another , suspensions set up , the combinations of all those is very important for a good lap time , i know this because i raced go kart for 12 years
duncan , my car is NO 2 IPRA QLD , still setting up the suspensions for a better lap time , bought another ke35 couple for next year , still building new 3SGE for it
go to natsoft.com.au & see my lap time at the last race at Warwick , qualified 2nd for under 2 litre class , unfortunately broke the rear stub axle in race 2
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2004
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 Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Wed, 19 October 2005 10:01
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rx3 ip & kingmick, thx very much.......something u guys told me that i havent realised they are so important before 
I will slowly try every different things. Also, how much would rougtly cost to take de race car to a good race engineer ????? Who one is a good race engineer in Melbourne for fwd ??????thxxxxxxxxxxx
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Wed, 19 October 2005 21:58
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talk to other FWD driver in your club for recommendations .
1st the car has to be corner weight for a better balance , adjust front/rear brake bias , spring rates & shocks bounce and rebound etc. all this will cost HEAPS
for your car weight , you need to rev the engine to 9500 rpm ( min ) to get approx 205 hp at flywheel to catch the mirages , to be able to do this rev , you need Billet crank , forged pistons & rods . 100 kg different is HUGH , my ae82 weight just under 900 kg wet ( no driver )
if you are serious about getting to the front , i won't use this car as it is far too heavy , giving away 150 kg to my car and run in the same class with similar hp. is too hard , just drive the car and have fun. 
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Sun, 23 October 2005 16:41
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hi guys, guess what i did this weekend????? my best lap time was 1.32sec @ sandown brfore, this weekend I have adjusted more camber 2 the front & rise the front up to 5mm higher than before. leave the rear as what it is. Since it was lotus car club track day, they have 75 db restriction, so I have 2 put the silencer at the back of the exhaust pipe. The car only goes up to 190km max in 4th gear (about 210km in 5th gear before), no top end power. I still can do 1 lap in 1.33 sec easily, also in this lap I was blocked by 2 cars @ turn 7, 1 car @ turn 4 , i could not speed up through both turns. So I guess that I broke my lap record.
After this practice section, I took the ex silencer off. Try to go out again and push harder, unfortunatly a course clerk came and told me off and told me that they cant keep my car running anymore becos of the car was over 75db, then i have to pick up and go home..............So i think i need to make some other changes and try again next time.....Otherwise, I wana test again @ Calder Park, there is no restrictions for nosie.........what u suggest to do before next test drive!!!!!
Anyway thx guys, i am happy for the lap time i did.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Sun, 23 October 2005 18:07
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get a clean laptime that is repeatable so you have a baseline.. then change things one at a time
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Mon, 24 October 2005 10:18
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duncan sounds like you need to do more club sprints in btw the state race rounds ,to sort your race car out ,to give you a idea my mates ke25 with a black top is doing 1.29 at sandown and that passes under the 75db day as well and motor is std as well but total weight is 870kilos thou ,and im doing 1.27 with my 2 liter celica as well ,its all about practice and sorting things out
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Mon, 24 October 2005 10:52
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take your time and get setup.most of the time what feels fast and feels good to you isnt what is fast around the track.
pulling out the race book,last time on sandown my car did 1.10 and at 92db{were it stays depending on the weather}and the car weights a heavy 1125kg or 1165 with race distance fuel in it,thirsty at about 2 litres a KM.and times in 2002 were within 300th of a secound but sister car cranked a 1.09
mick
p.s
dont rush thing and talk to other racers,most are happy to point you in the right direction.
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Location:
brisbane
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Tue, 25 October 2005 05:08
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next year we will have under and over 2 litre state championship (IPRA), instead of 1 for all engine size .
better off getting a 2 litre engine instead of 1600cc for this championship
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
October 2004
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Tue, 25 October 2005 12:16
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hi
i have quoted 2005 cams manual, Sandown lap record is 1.08 by simon wheels with Reynard 94D in 99, 1.11 by my master Craig Lowndes with V8 supercar in 99, and 1.13 by Jim Richard with Porsche GT3R. kingmick, the lap time u did is really really unbeleivable. Ar u serious with lap times? Now anything under 1.25 is too far away to me at this stage, but i really want to know what car u drive? Is it a sport sedan race car ?? And i realise that i need to do more club sprint and spent more time on the set up.
One mor thing i need 2 memtion that mirage club car has Ralliart close ratio comp box, and my car has only a stock box. So i think they can make at least 1 to 2 sec different in between those 2 boxes.
rx3 ip, what a lucky man, u have the under 2 liter class next year, its hard to have this in Victoria, unless we can get more members who have 2lt cars...............which is a dream to us.
Anyway, i need to fix something and planning to test again in Nov @ PI. thx guys !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Banned by his request
Location:
moved to tamworth
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: race car set up 4 FWD corolla
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Wed, 26 October 2005 10:00
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tony{his car has been developed over 20 years} beat our other car by 200 thousandth of a secound!bastard we thought we had the record!yes sportsedans,i didnt know there was any other form of racing!hahahahahahahahaahah
thanks for the list stew.
mick
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