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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 08:48
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ok
there appears to be a lot of people with opinions so ive decided to open somewhere that this contentious issue can be discussed on a MATURE level and centralise it
my view is below
ok toymods board
serisouly,
how many more of the original and old timers crew are the current board going to drive away ?
by memory there are virtually no members left from those from the original icq groups that were before my time (1st few months from original conception) here and not all are active members in these forums (which were created to replace the toymods car club icq groups which changed to yahoo groups when icq sold out)
so effectively this is an appendage of the toymods car club and not a seperate entity
it is the current main form of new members and recruiting
id imagine (w/o privelaged info like financial details) that it also is the main fundraising form for the car club as well
seriously, is this an appendage of toymods car club or a totally seperate eitnity ?
make your minds up and reflect this accordingly in the registered url
basically it takes multiple users and post from users to get any info in regards to the new forums and its more often than not handed down in an insulting down browing manner
not everyone is as high and almighty as those in the favourable list of the current board or i should elaborate further, specific majority of members
sure i apprecite the fact that the time donated by past and current board members and the effort they make, let alone it's due to them that this site exists, yet maybe the boys club reconsiders its door policy as the bouncer is turning away too many regulars and respected members than wannabes
on the wannabe thing
how can they prove themselves if theyre riddiculed from the onset and not mentored
i think its time for a complete fresh approach to things if this club is to survive and prosper
the new forums is a good start yet misguided
people are uncomfortable sharing details with financial institutions so what gives the curent board the right to demand this from old and new users alike particularly cosnidering the chequered history towards security
maybe things brought up like min char for a post be set @ 5 so smileys arent jsut acceptable yet a short sweet post is still able to be made as well as certian post limits towards posting in certian sections
mind you, i can appreciate that lawsuits against dodgy sellers in here are easier with contact details yet these are unsubstanciated at best and at worse it means toymods are breachign the privacy act to cofnirm these details
my sig shows the only choice those not happy with the current setup have to make a real difference
if mods have a prob , try approaching me first so a compramise can be reached like mature adults rather than weilding a big stick that reflects the egos of some in the position of power and possibly is used to substitutean insecurity complex for whatever reasons.....
goes a great distance towards avoiding bad blood and allowing adults to wash out bad blood and resolve issue between them that then isnt carried over to the whole forums and affects everyone
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 08:57
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Damm straight!
I understand everything you have posted, particularly why one question has to be asked many times over in one thread to get a reasonable response or answer.
Something is seriously wrong and it appears that it is a deliberate measure to drive new and current forum members away.
I would put money on it that no response is given to this thread and it will probably be locked.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 09:11
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1. The URL www.toymods.net is a temporary thing whilst the new forums are under development, the vbulletin forums will be moved to the .org.au domain when development is over.
2. Financial details of the club are not privelaged and can be accessed by any "member" of the car club... although I haven't gone through them myself I believe the forums actually cost more money than they generate from sponsorship etc.
3A. There is no big secret about the new forums and you'll find many posts about them in the membership & feedback section.
3B. I also agree that requiring people to list large amounts of personal information may turn away some people but then there is an increasing number of abusers of these forums that we would like to keep out aswell.
4. Do you really think that what you have in your signature is "Mature"?
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 09:40
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| Toobs wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 20:11 |
4. Do you really think that what you have in your signature is "Mature"?
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I actualy think it is mature.
He has some good points. If you're driving away some of the oldest members, then what's the point?
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Location:
Potts Point, Sydney
Registered:
October 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 09:42
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Agree with most parts 
What stops someone from entering a fake address, name etc etc?
I could say im michael lonegan from 21A cowper road, bondi. So really, that not a safety measure. Then again, i don't really care, if they wanna come to my house then you're welcome 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 09:54
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this is why i desired this in the outhouse
so there could be a greater discussion
im not reli interested in flame wars yet discussion that allows those to exress their view on an open level that they may not currently be capable of regardless if theyre members or not
btw i did not know that financial details are available to members yet this is a good things for transparency <----see praise for positive actions 
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 09:56
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Maybe you could consider your own advice 4dadrift?
i.e. if you don't like the way things are join the car club and have your say.
Most of the current board members were the only ones who stood up for the position they have... if you think you've got what it takes why not join and nominate yourself for a board position next year?
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Location:
Melbourne - NthSubs
Registered:
January 2004
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 10:01
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isnt this old toymods forum ganna be shutdown anyways?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 10:01
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toobs
when im in a position to accept that responsibility ill gladly run for a position to provide a different view and ofer to this community what skills opinions etc ive got
atm im transportless and pennyless
i figure paying bills and eating are higher in the scheme of things towards survival atm yet i do what i can where i can to assist the toymods community grow and spread the name in a positive light even if im a non financial member (#28 i think by memory)
ive been around since the icq groups days and when luke had the time to actively partake in the community he asssited in creating
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 10:05
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Neil,
i'll appologise for the lack of responses regarding the information surrounding the new website and forums - please understand that the board is a group of VOLUNTEERS who give up their personal time to serve the members of the Toymods Car Club and their best interests.
This means that whilst something as time consuming and demanding as constructing, designing and implementing a new website and forum - very little time is left over to answer the 100's of emails, posts, threads, phone calls etc regarding the new forums and website.
Yes there are more than a couple of board members, but unfortunately the ones with the answers to the majority of the questions are the ones who are the busiest constructing the new forums.... leaving people like me with only half and idea to answer these questions.
The only reason anyone might be met with an "insulting down browing manner" in a response would be because the question has already been answered several times before or the question was was put forward in a equal or more negative tone. If there was any other time a response was less than friendly, i appologise on behalf of the board.
Suggestions such as the 5 char min post limit and other configurations - each of these have been specifically set up the way they have on purpose. If you think you have a legitimate reason for something to be different, by all means please say so and someone WILL respond..... but the attitude we receive from you above and in your suggestions in the past doesnt do much for your cause i'm afriad....
This new forum and website is being designed and structured to harbour a wealth of technical knowledge, and to promote learning and involvement within the Toyota community.... not to ridicule. The board's intention with the new forum is to start afresh, with a clean slate, and build the type of online community some remember from back in the day.
I thought of all people you wouldve understood that the reason we are taking these details is to force individuals to take responsibility in their actions on the forums, and to hopefully weed out the types of individualls who have left a marr on these current forums.
I assure you, we are in breach of NO privacy laws and security measures are being implemented to protect personal information.
If you really felt this strongly, why dont you come along to a meeting and field your questions, comments and suggestions to the regular club members and the whole board - we always throw the floor open to anyone there to do so! I'm sure if you did you'd be met with a very different response to what you feel you are getting.
When i started caring about the forums and club - i started going to the club meets, and then joined the club.... and then became a board member.
There is a simple solution though- if you dont like it, you dont have to join. We are only asking the SAME amount of information that we ask of anyone who joins the club, and by your logic that the forums are "an appendage" of the club - then you have given justification to our choice.
If you have any queries about the way the club is structured and run, please take your time to view our constitution....
http://www.toymods.org.au/Toymods_Constitution.pdf
Finally - the URL toymods.net is temporary until the website/forums are ready... www.toymods.org.au will always be the home of Toymods on the intrawebnet
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 10:07
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| rthy wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 21:01 |
isnt this old toymods forum ganna be shutdown anyways?
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Yes but this way people who don't want to provide their personal information to the new board can have their say without having to give away their personal info.
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 10:16
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Anyways 4dadrift... will try to get back to the original topic.
What do you think is driving the older members away?
What alternatives could you suggest to verify users without requesting their full street address and phone number?
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 10:22
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| Toobs wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 20:16 |
What alternatives could you suggest to verify users without requesting their full street address and phone number?
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If more moderators were put to work you wouldnt need to verify users. If a new user comes onto the forums and their first post is rubbish, a simple ban is all that is needed.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 10:32
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If you make the sign up process to difficult, most people wont bother.
Remember we have a few more "mature" people that visit these forums. If you make signup to technical, they for one wont know what the fucks going on, and two they wont bother trying to find out.
Also some people come to these forums when they are in desperate need of help with things. Their minds are racing and they are not thinking clearly so how do you expect these people to spend 20 minutes filling in shit just to get would could be a quick answer?
You might say that these are the people you dont want on the forum, but I think these are the people we need.
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Location:
Land of Oz
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 10:52
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Hi,
| Cool1 wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 21:32 |
Remember we have a few more "mature" people that visit these forums. If you make signup to technical, they for one wont know what the fucks going on, and two they wont bother trying to find out.
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Hey, aren't I one of those "mature" folk? I was able to handle it. Not too hard to present your name, address and phone number. I had to do it when I got my seniors card, and also tell the hospital when I had to get my new colostomy bag.
In regards to how the old days were, well I wasn't around in the club back then and can't comment on how it has changed. Mind you, I should of been in the club baqck then, considering I've had the car since 1982 and it's been crusing around the Hills since 1996. Didn't you ever see the car?
Not even a note on my windscreen to tell me about the flegdling club 
seeyuzz
river
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 10:52
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| THE WITZL wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 21:05 |
Neil,
i'll appologise for the lack of responses regarding the information surrounding the new website and forums - please understand that the board is a group of VOLUNTEERS who give up their personal time to serve the members of the Toymods Car Club and their best interests.
This means that whilst something as time consuming and demanding as constructing, designing and implementing a new website and forum - very little time is left over to answer the 100's of emails, posts, threads, phone calls etc regarding the new forums and website.
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as ive stated on numerous occasions previously, i appreciate and respect this fact and actually have mentioned this as a reference point for others who read my post to consider as well.
the appology is appreciated thou, yet it is something that is a greater frustration to the community that ive voiced and have had seconded by members of our community and subsequently should be issued to everyone , not just me as its not http://forums.4dadrift.com.au  or any other personal member
| Quote: |
Yes there are more than a couple of board members, but unfortunately the ones with the answers to the majority of the questions are the ones who are the busiest constructing the new forums.... leaving people like me with only half and idea to answer these questions.
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maybe consultation within the community before changes would make streamlining changes easier in future and , yes i do appreciate even you and soem of the board and admin and mjods dont have the full story and to me thats a problem as how are you supposed to do your role if your clueless ?
| Quote: |
The only reason anyone might be met with an "insulting down browing manner" in a response would be because the question has already been answered several times before or the question was was put forward in a equal or more negative tone. If there was any other time a response was less than friendly, i appologise on behalf of the board.
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i grant the answer amy have been answered, yet it may not either have been answered in a manner that satisfies the query or is answered in an obsure way or thread that requires a person to dig beyond reasonable measures, also the question may be phrased in a manner that reflects the frustration of that particular user and as im sure can be appreciated, we all are human afterall and hence, prone to mistakes
once again your appology is appreciated, yet it is something that should be directed to the whole community and not just myself as this place is not my forums
| Quote: |
Suggestions such as the 5 char min post limit and other configurations - each of these have been specifically set up the way they have on purpose. If you think you have a legitimate reason for something to be different, by all means please say so and someone WILL respond..... but the attitude we receive from you above and in your suggestions in the past doesnt do much for your cause i'm afriad....
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i understand the char limit is there for a reason and actually agree with it, yet do beleive that it should be reduced to 5 char as an example so posts that are quick informative are still possible
i appreciate it is to reduce post whoring which is great things yet at times it can be limiting
i also appreciate the attitude can be offputting yet thats from frustration and not a direct agenda to personalise and attack...
| Quote: |
This new forum and website is being designed and structured to harbour a wealth of technical knowledge, and to promote learning and involvement within the Toyota community.... not to ridicule. The board's intention with the new forum is to start afresh, with a clean slate, and build the type of online community some remember from back in the day.
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..and this is a good approach yet the consultation from the current community was lackig which as anyone involved in any level of consultation on a business/professional level will note as a seriosu flaw in achieving the results
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I thought of all people you wouldve understood that the reason we are taking these details is to force individuals to take responsibility in their actions on the forums, and to hopefully weed out the types of individualls who have left a marr on these current forums.
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yes i do and this should be noted and reflected in soem of my prior comments yet i beleive that the current level fo tis approach has g oen too far and this has beene xpressed by multiple persons
it has to be asked besides the weeds in the community what other reasons the regulars founders and valued members of this community have left or not as active as previously..
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I assure you, we are in breach of NO privacy laws and security measures are being implemented to protect personal information.
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this is comforting yet is it possible to outline particular aforementioned security measures without going into detail that compramises the security of it ?
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If you really felt this strongly, why dont you come along to a meeting and field your questions, comments and suggestions to the regular club members and the whole board - we always throw the floor open to anyone there to do so! I'm sure if you did you'd be met with a very different response to what you feel you are getting.
When i started caring about the forums and club - i started going to the club meets, and then joined the club.... and then became a board member.
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i plan to when i have the facilites and capability to and express my voice ... as ive pointed to others in my signature, yet at this stage im limited to expressing my opinion online and voicing the greatness fo this club in the greater community to asssist it grow
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There is a simple solution though- if you dont like it, you dont have to join. We are only asking the SAME amount of information that we ask of anyone who joins the club, and by your logic that the forums are "an appendage" of the club - then you have given justification to our choice.
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and that raised an issue, wether this appengadeis a part fo the greater toymods car club community and cosnidered an asset or wether it is a value added service to the greater community yet not involved with toymods and the fact that the url leads to the fact it is a part fo the toymods community
| Quote: |
If you have any queries about the way the club is structured and run, please take your time to view our constitution....
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thanks for the link
i read it at the time of conception
my reply to this is mentioned as above with the misleading the name is suggesting
i mean no harm and do give a shit hence th epassion in the posts i make that may disturb some people, yet without passion theres no soul or greater community toa club and it ends up in somethign like hot4's
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 11:03
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You can still view the new forums without registering... most people wouldn't bother registering without having read through the forums to see whats going on anyway.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 11:03
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| Shraka wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 21:07 |
Yes but this way people who don't want to provide their personal information to the new board can have their say without having to give away their personal info.
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Remember that it takes resources and money to do that.
| Toobs wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 21:16 |
Anyways 4dadrift... will try to get back to the original topic.
What do you think is driving the older members away?
What alternatives could you suggest to verify users without requesting their full street address and phone number?
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For the most part, the older members that we're talking about have been turned off by the slide away from a technical forum. Well, that's true for the ones that I have talked to (or still keep in contact with).
This is a big reason for the change and really is one of the main aims.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 11:07
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One thing that I think would be handy, for filtering out rubbish would be to have a Toymods Wiki. Having all the technicaly knowledge writen up in a central place that's easy to search would be great and reduce useless questions by a lot.
I think it's a much better idea than filtering users. (And yes, it wasn't thought up by me).
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I Supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 11:10
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Heres an option...
The Outhouse
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 11:18
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| 4DaDrift wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 21:52 |
| Quote: |
I assure you, we are in breach of NO privacy laws and security measures are being implemented to protect personal information.
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this is comforting yet is it possible to outline particular aforementioned security measures without going into detail that compramises the security of it ?
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Without getting too specific and giving anything away, there are 3 layers of security which have to be broken through before the information can be read.
The information can only be accessed through certain channels as well, so it's quite secure.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 11:37
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| Nark wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 22:18 |
| 4DaDrift wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 21:52 |
| Quote: |
I assure you, we are in breach of NO privacy laws and security measures are being implemented to protect personal information.
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this is comforting yet is it possible to outline particular aforementioned security measures without going into detail that compramises the security of it ?
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Without getting too specific and giving anything away, there are 3 layers of security which have to be broken through before the information can be read.
The information can only be accessed through certain channels as well, so it's quite secure.
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I would rather that after the data had been read and the poster authorised, the data then be removed from the server, and purely stored as hard copy. Either that, or it all be encrypted, and the only way to read the encryption is with a pair of keys and an application that's kept on a flash drive or secure local machine somehwere.
No matter how good your security, some hacker somewhere is better. There IS a hacker out there capable of breaking your security. All it'll take is him to be interested enough in doing it.
But then I am a bit paranoid.
It'd be nice if we had better internet privacy police to track down spammers and the like, but we just don't.
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 11:39
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The new forums have been a labour of love so many people.
This labour has involved much discussion, debate, late nights and hard work pulling everything together. It's been and continues to be, a big deal!
Even more, from all I have been involved with, the board has worked so hard to attempt to provide a free community with, hopefully, less of what was negatively affecting these forums. If the methodology disagrees with you it's not because the board represents a cosmologic killjoy.
As to the suggested non-existent reference to the community that the board represents I would like to suggest some prudence in making such a claim.
Each club meeting has had for some time now a section opened to the floor for comments and suggestions on the new forum. Feedback has been encouraged on the new forums as they have grown from initial testing to pre-launch.
Even this thread is a great example of that and it's great to hear what people don't like! I sure can remember that rants about the slide in quality and increasingly, performance, on these forums.
Some thoughts anyway
edit: some typos
[Updated on: Wed, 23 November 2005 11:40]
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 11:43
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| Toobs wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 22:10 |
Heres an option...
The Outhouse
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Oh and why do you hate the outhouse so much? It's full of lots of things that make for an interesting extension into the lives of other toymodders. I find it's the "general car talk" section that tends to fill up with stupid posts about "what would win in drift, Sprinter Levin or S13 Skyline?" or "I just did 190km/h on the free way and the cops shot me! How outragious is that!? Now I'm a ghost and have come to haunt the general car talk section from the grave." and "were to do sik street dorifto?".
I'd say that the members complaining that the board is full of idiots who don't talk enough shop, would be complaining about that section. Why would someone wanting to talk about cars and tech go to the outhouse? I don't understand.
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 11:55
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I'm a recent board member & I've been a member now for 4 years.
I wasn't around in the early days, but from discussions with the other board members, the aim is to recapture the old technical direction of the forum with these new ones.
Please note that the views expressed below are my own & not necessary that of the entire board (though I will try)
Personally, I find your signature insulting. You complain about "Fascist" board members, yet seeing as you don't come to any club meetings, I wouldn't know you from a bar of soap. What have I done that deserves that kind of an insult?
You complain about no consultation, yet if you'd been able to come to the club meetings, you'd know that the general feeling of the financial members of the club are that these forums were being let down by the amount of wookie type responses, crap threads, etc. I know that you've explained about your circumstances not allowing you to come to meetings, but then don't complain about not being informed when you're not in the loop.
These forums are not self financing. They are mainly funded by the membership fees & proceeds from fund raising events we run, not by donations or sponsorship fees.
These forums are also a branch of the club designed to put us out into the greater community. It is, and I dare say, always will be, a resource for the financial members of the club first, and everyone else second.
Therefore, they are run to the way the financial club members want.
If that means they are sick of the post-whores, wookies, etc who drive away the technical people who actually want to have an input, then so be it, we'll try to do that.
The best way thought of to do this was to request the personal info like we request of financial members. Do you think someone's going to be as much of a jerk on a forum if they knew that there is a possibility of actually being contactable outside the forum, instead of hiding behind an anonymous handle?
With regards to privacy issues, the ONLY circumstance where the information gathered can be given out is when a subpoena is given from a court in legal proceedings, otherwise we are breaking the law.
You also complain about not being contacted before this thread was moved, or whatever else you thought was going to happen to it.
Think of it from our point of view.
You post up something that's contentious. Because we're volunteers who do this on our spare time & therefore need to stumble across this thread before making a comment.
If we wait to discuss the issue with you & in the meantime, some "wannabbe" (for want of a better word) who's just interested in post-whoring & stirring up trouble reads it & posts.
Is that good for the reputation of the club? It is far safer to remove it, move it, etc & then discuss the options, rather than leaving the possibility of the club's reputation being damaged. We never delete stuff, it simply gets moved to a place where non-moderators can no longer view it. Therefore, it can usually be moved back if deemed necessary.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 12:15
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Shraka,
The outhouse has gone waaaaaaaaaaaaay too far. It's got so much crap in it, that anything decent in it is automatically changed to crap by a process of assimilation 
By having it there, it just promotes that kind of posting behaviour... and it spreads all over the forums, like a wave of crapulence.
I also believe we are looking at remotely storing the sensitive information offline, if a feasible solution is found.
ANYHOO....
Here is the simple formula for why we dont want people to feel completely annonymous. Unfortunately it's the truth
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 12:20
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| Shraka wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 22:37 |
I would rather that after the data had been read and the poster authorised, the data then be removed from the server, and purely stored as hard copy. Either that, or it all be encrypted, and the only way to read the encryption is with a pair of keys and an application that's kept on a flash drive or secure local machine somehwere.
No matter how good your security, some hacker somewhere is better. There IS a hacker out there capable of breaking your security. All it'll take is him to be interested enough in doing it.
But then I am a bit paranoid.
It'd be nice if we had better internet privacy police to track down spammers and the like, but we just don't.
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As I said, I don't want to go into specifics.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Melbourne Australia
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 13:54
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just a little suggestion, is it possible to limit people's post option by their sign up. eg let them sign up with minimum detail, ie no address or phone number (car details are fine its only the chassis code (eg SV21 ) and if they wish to partake in the sale of goods then enforce them to enter in address and phone details.
that way we can allow people who want to use the forums for posting to continue posting, and forcing those that want to sell to put in the correct details.
not sure if this is possible but a suggestion for easing the sign up process for some.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 14:25
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meh... i've been around since before toymods was born... true it took me a few years to become a financial member but....
the toymods forum is a gift to the community at large. if it wasn't for knowledgable ppl passing down their experience, this would be just another assmunching forum about dorifto wannabes and sik bros in VL commondores etc etc...
what pushes old timers away is the proliferation of morons who post anything and everything they think of, reply with crap when they don't actually know it to be true, and generally bring the level of technical content down.
this is a TECHNICAL forum. the outhouse was set up to stop the drivel from invading and overrunning the technical sections of the forum, but then more and more ppl just join and ONLY post there...
the non-members should be GRATEFUL that there is somewhere on the net they can ask technical questions and get accurate answers.... if you doubt this, go and ask tech Q's on hot 4's or boost crusin or whatever...
how many of you were part of the world toyota-mods mailing list? that is the kind of technical content that we should aspire to, and do everything possible to protect.
on the wannabe/noob thing...
if a new person asks sensible questions, they will always get sensible answers.. on the new forum... if they post like a fucktard, they get what they deserve, although i would hope on the new forum that their posts are just deleted instead.
were you a fucktard when you were a noob? or were you keen to learn and asked sensibe questions.. and listened to the answers?
part of the aim of the new forum is to NOT have an atmosphere where 5 smilies constitutes a valid ontribution to the forum
    
did that help?? no..
so you have a problem with the old forum and the new forum, and you don't want to be a part of it in future... i fail to see what the problem is then jk... if you are that sore about it.. start your own forum. seriously.... i started the (maybe) first old corolla specific forum many years ago (ok, well only 4 or 5) and that started a community of oldcorolla owners....
when toymods began it fostered a good toyota MODIFYING community..
just go and start your own forum and decide the kind of ppl you will allow to join.... it's a free world, forums can be set up online for free.... go ahead.
i fail to se why the signup process should be loosened up for ppl who wish to remain anonymous. this is a COMMUNITY. for LIKE MINDED people... if you are not of the same opinion, then you are not part of that like-minded community.. deal with it
and now we have non-toyota owners wanting to have a say in how the toyota forums are run? sheesh
everyone just get over it.. either sign up or don't. if you have a specific issue, email the board. your life will not stop while you are waiting a couple of weeks for them to get back to you. be glad they even get back to you at all. thy are doing you a favour by contributing THEIR OWN TIME so you can post drivel
[Updated on: Wed, 23 November 2005 14:31]
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 14:27
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in short.
New Forums = Wookie Filter.
if you cannot comprehend the new sign up procedure then you are, by default... a wookie!
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 15:11
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| Toobs wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 21:16 |
Anyways 4dadrift... will try to get back to the original topic.
What do you think is driving the older members away?
What alternatives could you suggest to verify users without requesting their full street address and phone number?
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combination of things
overzealous moderation of certian arenas and interests (outhouse where it is a general no bars held discussion room for ppls entertainment)
underzealous moderation of certian arenas and interests (tech and trader sections)
lack of arena specific mods (cruise, states etc should have at elast a mod from their respective state to control things a bit and make sure thigsn dont get tooout of hand)
technical understanding not being that of the average and ridicule for as such [most of us are guilty of google it,rtfm or search the forums rather than politely pointign in the right direction and this is human nature due to frustration as cited by soem members leavign due to idiots that are uncapable of understanding anything due to no effort] ...(i know of at least one person who i has to walk thru a lot of online slang and general procedures etc so they gained an understanding of how things work and they had the basic skills to contribute, we all are still learning...just some quicker than others)
lack of support for international and interstate members and possible members (hence my suggestion of live feed to meetings for members so they have a voice and are able to play an active role in things and feel their hard earnt $$$ is giving them teh same rights as syd metro ppl)
lack of appreciation for the founders that formed this club
a lot of forums appear to use a combination of users self moderation (feedback etc from sales and repping) post count and an isp email address which i feel is quite fair and invites members into the so called loop
im a strong believer that as stated tehre should be some accountability and responsibility and the repping feature will asssit this yet im sure if considered there are alternate and other ways to further assist this such as a sales + / - system for trade for example by a persons handle
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Location:
Sydney
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May 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 15:19
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| THE WITZL wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 21:23 |
it's not really about veryifying a user, it's about instilling a level of personal responsibility in every user of the forum, to try a build a more utopian Toymods online community.
Most people are accepting of that!
You'd have to give the same amount of information if you joined the club anyway!
Shane - we believe in second chances, that's why you are still around
How about this???
what if we set up a "sign up by proxy" forum registration process? ie, you print out a forum, fill it in, mail it, we then contact you to say you account is setup! All information is kept securely of course. It would certainly quell some fears regarding online security of personal details
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not a bad idea about the proxy system as at least it is off the internet and encourages membership as well
something else to consider is a sell for donation process for cars
if you dont sell you dont pay
if you sell you can either donate whatever sum you feel is fair or you cop a 30-60 day ban
thre are plenty of inovative ideas that are jsut waitign to be used and theres always the possibility of copyright/poatenting them to resell to other forums
afterall most fo us are aussies by definition of nationality( not racial background yet thats part of what makes this country great when thigsn actually work together..the diversity) and we are invoative people by nature
edit: the problem with installign personal responsibility is that its still up to only the one person and not a greater community who demcratically decides whos worthy of joining one of the best care related communities out there (when were not bitch fighting or conjurign up paintshop images of eachother)
[Updated on: Wed, 23 November 2005 15:26]
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 15:24
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just a note, the classifieds is not the focues for the forum.. it's a nice addon for MEMBERS to sell stuff... it's nice that other ppl can sell things too (handwarmers?? ) but it should not be viewed as a free classifieds that ppl have the right to use.
ppl sould feel they want to donate anyway. forcing ppl to donate = making ppl pay for classifieds = they expect some kind of level of service for it = not what it is all about..
it's a TECHNICAL forum, and, conveniently, you can sell stuff you don't ned anymore also...
forum is first priority....
cruises, clasifieds, random wookie outhouse crapola is secondary
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Location:
Sydney
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May 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 15:24
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| Nark wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 22:03 |
| Shraka wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 21:07 |
Yes but this way people who don't want to provide their personal information to the new board can have their say without having to give away their personal info.
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Remember that it takes resources and money to do that.
| Toobs wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 21:16 |
Anyways 4dadrift... will try to get back to the original topic.
What do you think is driving the older members away?
What alternatives could you suggest to verify users without requesting their full street address and phone number?
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For the most part, the older members that we're talking about have been turned off by the slide away from a technical forum. Well, that's true for the ones that I have talked to (or still keep in contact with).
This is a big reason for the change and really is one of the main aims.
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everything costs these days as you would know mate and the suggestion of a wiki would, i feel, go a long way to resolving tech related issues as there is an official reference point rather than 30 people flaminge eachother because they were told this or in their experience this is the solution to their unique situation
im even sure that a lot of tech minded person would work towards this long term project as it woudl benefit anyone thats curious abotu anything and willing to make some form of effort
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Location:
Sydney
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May 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 15:38
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| RobST162 wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 22:39 |
The new forums have been a labour of love so many people.
This labour has involved much discussion, debate, late nights and hard work pulling everything together. It's been and continues to be, a big deal!
Even more, from all I have been involved with, the board has worked so hard to attempt to provide a free community with, hopefully, less of what was negatively affecting these forums. If the methodology disagrees with you it's not because the board represents a cosmologic killjoy.
As to the suggested non-existent reference to the community that the board represents I would like to suggest some prudence in making such a claim.
Each club meeting has had for some time now a section opened to the floor for comments and suggestions on the new forum. Feedback has been encouraged on the new forums as they have grown from initial testing to pre-launch.
Even this thread is a great example of that and it's great to hear what people don't like! I sure can remember that rants about the slide in quality and increasingly, performance, on these forums.
Some thoughts anyway
edit: some typos
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this whole community is a labour of love as well and this forums is a great reflection of what can be doen when we stop flamign enough to work toghether
some amazing thigsn ca be accomplished and as ive stated multipe times , i take my hat off to those who have put themselves out to assist and i do hope that at a alter stage that ima bel to do my bit and encourage everyone to do theirs hence my sig
i understand and like most, once the bugs have been ironed out and features migrated, will appreciate the improvement the 3rd instalment of toymods forums bring particularly over the user groups we originally started out with
im also sure like most otehr suers apreciate the limited ability due to legal cosntraints to control as desired around here and that its not intended to kill the fun vibrant nature of here yet to ensure it exists yet there are limits that most cosnider acceptable and theres times members have felt they have been stepped over
the feedback opportunities ahve been limited and usually only to those fortunate enough to go to meetings due to their geographical location
out of curiosity what are the specs of the server/s and connection currently being used and beyond software what can be done to improve these
also what costs are we talking about to do as such ?
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May 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 15:55
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| wagonist wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 22:55 |
I'm a recent board member & I've been a member now for 4 years.
I wasn't around in the early days, but from discussions with the other board members, the aim is to recapture the old technical direction of the forum with these new ones.
Please note that the views expressed below are my own & not necessary that of the entire board (though I will try)
Personally, I find your signature insulting. You complain about "Fascist" board members, yet seeing as you don't come to any club meetings, I wouldn't know you from a bar of soap. What have I done that deserves that kind of an insult?
You complain about no consultation, yet if you'd been able to come to the club meetings, you'd know that the general feeling of the financial members of the club are that these forums were being let down by the amount of wookie type responses, crap threads, etc. I know that you've explained about your circumstances not allowing you to come to meetings, but then don't complain about not being informed when you're not in the loop.
These forums are not self financing. They are mainly funded by the membership fees & proceeds from fund raising events we run, not by donations or sponsorship fees.
These forums are also a branch of the club designed to put us out into the greater community. It is, and I dare say, always will be, a resource for the financial members of the club first, and everyone else second.
Therefore, they are run to the way the financial club members want.
If that means they are sick of the post-whores, wookies, etc who drive away the technical people who actually want to have an input, then so be it, we'll try to do that.
The best way thought of to do this was to request the personal info like we request of financial members. Do you think someone's going to be as much of a jerk on a forum if they knew that there is a possibility of actually being contactable outside the forum, instead of hiding behind an anonymous handle?
With regards to privacy issues, the ONLY circumstance where the information gathered can be given out is when a subpoena is given from a court in legal proceedings, otherwise we are breaking the law.
You also complain about not being contacted before this thread was moved, or whatever else you thought was going to happen to it.
Think of it from our point of view.
You post up something that's contentious. Because we're volunteers who do this on our spare time & therefore need to stumble across this thread before making a comment.
If we wait to discuss the issue with you & in the meantime, some "wannabbe" (for want of a better word) who's just interested in post-whoring & stirring up trouble reads it & posts.
Is that good for the reputation of the club? It is far safer to remove it, move it, etc & then discuss the options, rather than leaving the possibility of the club's reputation being damaged. We never delete stuff, it simply gets moved to a place where non-moderators can no longer view it. Therefore, it can usually be moved back if deemed necessary.
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im afraid we will ahve to agree to disagree on several points there for example ive made no direct rference to any single person and if a singluar person is offended then that is an issue they have to address tehmselves and preferably in pm as ive done in the past
ill reiterate, i appreciate the time effort and hardship thats encountered by the admin of this site and the board (only discovered that they are actually seperate branches of this toymods tree) and have done what i can where i can to assist in the growth of these forums and furthermore the club in general
ive commented on the reasosn im not at meetings and also suggested a resolution for this and shown possible benifits for as suchi agree that financial memebers are a cherished group here and should always ahve priority unless thats waivered by them yet consideration for the main feeder area of members also has to be cosnidered
if we turn away people before they have the chance to feel welcome and appreciate the values here thigns will only grow stale and stagnant creating a financial problem in the future
ive always considered rehabilitation/mentoring the superior solution compared to pursecution/punishment particularly cosniderign the standard fo role models available these days comared to what others have expereinced
btw our vs your is something that i feel result sin ppl feeling not welcome here in the first place
most peopel take time to warm to anythign new and with some leaving (regardless of it being conscious or subcoscious) peopel feelign unwelcome is not going to do anyone favcours
we should be doing everythign to encourage everyone thayre welcome if they have respect for themselves and eachother
i do understand and appreciate that deleted thread are stilla vailable to the admin and mods to be ressurected ehnce peopels criues to ressurect certian threads for reference point etc
at the end of the day, a lot of people are passionate about this club and teh forums of this club (regardless of the issue of wether they are or are not part fo the club) and this whole thread is so people are able to voice their thoughts about the new forums and general related issues for the greater improvement for all and i can appreciate and respect that yet feel that respect is not returned by some
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 15:56
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| 4DaDrift wrote on Thu, 24 November 2005 02:38 |
, i take my hat off to those who have put themselves out to assist and i do hope that at a alter stage that ima bel to do my bit and encourage everyone to do theirs hence my sig
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| 4DaDrifts Sig |
Complete censorship
Coming to a thread near you...
NOT HAPPY WITH THE CURRENT BOARD AND THEIR ACTIONS ?
BECOME A MEMBER OF THE CAR CLUB AND VOTE THE FASCIST POLICE STATE HOWARD LOVING MEMBERS OUT !!!!
HAVE YOUR SAY...
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your sig seems to contain some fairly strong wording... do you actually mean what it says? your views as posted in this thread seem slightly more moderate than the above? perhaps you can reconcile your two opinions to give a united front?
ie, do you take your hat off to the fascist police state howard loving members who have put themselves out to assist...
or not??
really not trying to spark anything, but your sig is simply offensive toward the people you are trying to... do something... with..
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 15:57
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| THE WITZL wrote on Wed, 23 November 2005 23:15 |
Shraka,
The outhouse has gone waaaaaaaaaaaaay too far. It's got so much crap in it, that anything decent in it is automatically changed to crap by a process of assimilation
By having it there, it just promotes that kind of posting behaviour... and it spreads all over the forums, like a wave of crapulence.
I also believe we are looking at remotely storing the sensitive information offline, if a feasible solution is found.
ANYHOO....
Here is the simple formula for why we dont want people to feel completely annonymous. Unfortunately it's the truth
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the problem is that when emotions are mixed up yet nto given an arena to vent them they will naturally spill voer to multiple other areas and the bad blood with take a greater period of time to overcome where its possible thatit can be done in one thread and left there...
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 16:15
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| Quote: |
just a note, the classifieds is not the focues for the forum.. it's a nice addon for MEMBERS to sell stuff... it's nice that other ppl can sell things too (handwarmers?? ) but it should not be viewed as a free classifieds that ppl have the right to use.
ppl sould feel they want to donate anyway. forcing ppl to donate = making ppl pay for classifieds = they expect some kind of level of service for it = not what it is all about..
it's a TECHNICAL forum, and, conveniently, you can sell stuff you don't ned anymore also...
forum is first priority....
cruises, clasifieds, random wookie outhouse crapola is secondary
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i know and appreciate the fact the classifieds are not the central focus of the forums and the club yet they are a major part of what makes these forums and subsequently attention should be given to them to improve them as well as all other aspects fo the forums and the club in general to make this a better place for thsoe who desire to contribute to the club
the added features youve mentioned are all nice addons brought forward for members of the car club and benifited by the forum members
my idea was just that..taken into consideration the tiem effort required by the "staff" and the requirements needed to keep them active and finding new ways towards assisting this
maybe a reduced 6 month membership drive is worth a cosnideration as well to encourage forum memebers and newbies into the community and gain an expereicne of it w/o th extra cots of shirts mugs etc ??
| oldcorollas wrote on Thu, 24 November 2005 02:56 |
| 4DaDrift wrote on Thu, 24 November 2005 02:38 |
, i take my hat off to those who have put themselves out to assist and i do hope that at a alter stage that ima bel to do my bit and encourage everyone to do theirs hence my sig
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| 4DaDrifts Sig |
Complete censorship
Coming to a thread near you...
NOT HAPPY WITH THE CURRENT BOARD AND THEIR ACTIONS ?
BECOME A MEMBER OF THE CAR CLUB AND VOTE THE FASCIST POLICE STATE HOWARD LOVING MEMBERS OUT !!!!
HAVE YOUR SAY...
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your sig seems to contain some fairly strong wording... do you actually mean what it says? your views as posted in this thread seem slightly more moderate than the above? perhaps you can reconcile your two opinions to give a united front?
ie, do you take your hat off to the fascist police state howard loving members who have put themselves out to assist...
or not??
really not trying to spark anything, but your sig is simply offensive toward the people you are trying to... do something... with..
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i appreciate how that can be mis-taken and ive been aorudn logn enough to generally know when youve pushed the sarcasm button
as it was emnt to be was to encourage peopel to become memebers and vote out those who they disagree with if enough people agree with them...not the whole board as it apparently is beign taken as ive ment
and theres good in everyone hence the 2nd chance policy used and stated above here so even thouse who an individual or collective group may disagree win theory on certain levels may agree with soem fo their actions, it does not automatically mean theyre blanketing their views as all wrogn due to just one or two
btw i do mean what i say and if proven wrong i will retract my statement
otherwise i stand by my word and am not coward enough to hide from what ive said
[Updated on: Wed, 23 November 2005 16:22]
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 16:54
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| oldcorollas wrote on Thu, 24 November 2005 01:25 |
meh... i've been around since before toymods was born... true it took me a few years to become a financial member but....
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...it shouldnt be the size yet hwo you use it ? so to speak
| Quote: |
the toymods forum is a gift to the community at large. if it wasn't for knowledgable ppl passing down their experience, this would be just another assmunching forum about dorifto wannabes and sik bros in VL commondores etc etc...
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and i for oen appreciate this gift and is why im debating changes so vigrously as thre are peopel that we really shouldnt loose due to this and this is theperfect oooportunity to encourage return of previous members...
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what pushes old timers away is the proliferation of morons who post anything and everything they think of, reply with crap when they don't actually know it to be true, and generally bring the level of technical content down.
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and as the saying goes , one mans trash is anothers treasure
in my time ive learnt things and one day even hope to work with you towards an automotive project that could be financially beneficial to the both of us, yet my knowlege is overshadowed compared to yours, as are others to mine and yours to others
part of the problem i feel is that peopel forget in frustration that not all are as fortunate to have the experience and resources available to them that they do
for example ive virtually no tools, no work space and come froma family with no mechenical background yet auto modification for the improvement of the asthetics of a vehicle is an interest of mine and ill do what i can to improve it
yet when i ask a question after searching for an answer within the forums or googling it and only gettign contrdictory responses and told to google it, rtfm, search it or told how much of a worthless numbskull i am for not professing a masters in every conceivable field ever invented (btw that is not intended as an insult considering youve earnt a doctorate) and even my cat knows that for example a ke20 comes with twodifferent stud patterns it is very demeanign and hurtful and human nature when beigna ttacked is to defend in verbally wise thats to lash out and insult others with the limit of their vocabulary (hence why some are limited to extreme use of profanity)
it also is a problem when the whole cmpter and itnernet side fo thigsn are new to you as they are to some who do have a wealth of expereince in the auto fields to share yet not sure how to and are ridiculed for their mistakes
it all come sback to tolerence and atm i feel that a smile directed towards some is intolerable and id require to air out the flame proof suit for a while...
| Quote: |
this is a TECHNICAL forum. the outhouse was set up to stop the drivel from invading and overrunning the technical sections of the forum, but then more and more ppl just join and ONLY post there...
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to start with
we start by socialising before goign in depth shareing our knowlege i feel
we desire to get the pulse of things to begin with and then branch out the more confident and proficent we become...[/quote]
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the non-members should be GRATEFUL that there is somewhere on the net they can ask technical questions and get accurate answers.... if you doubt this, go and ask tech Q's on hot 4's or boost crusin or whatever...
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i, as im sure multiples of others will agree with this and do what they can to assis the growth of the club and teh forums
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how many of you were part of the world toyota-mods mailing list? that is the kind of technical content that we should aspire to, and do everything possible to protect.
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that was before my tiem in net experiences yet if it was like what icq groups originally was like before it eventuated to yahoo groups thent eh first version of the forums then i agree with you there, it is soemthign to aspire to
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on the wannabe/noob thing...
if a new person asks sensible questions, they will always get sensible answers.. on the new forum... if they post like a fucktard, they get what they deserve, although i would hope on the new forum that their posts are just deleted instead.
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covered this above
basically whats noobish to one is brain surgery to others
something to consider on a level intended not to be racial
some of our memebers possibly are from countries or areas that are only just startig to gain an appreciation towards the mechenical age were used to hence its all new to them
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were you a fucktard when you were a noob? or were you keen to learn and asked sensibe questions.. and listened to the answers?
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i was probably both!!!
i desired to learn and am mad keen on toyotas yet was relativelly clueless and to date still paling in comparison to others whos knowlege i and other can only dream of at this period of time
with time that hopefuly will change for us all
yet i respected teh fact that peope took the tiem to answer me and try to assist and that this service was and still is provided by the club and is the reason one day i will do what i can to become a financial member and pay my dues differently to what im doing now and gain the additional benefits that entails me to
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part of the aim of the new forum is to NOT have an atmosphere where 5 smilies constitutes a valid ontribution to the forum
did that help?? no..
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well maybe smileys should be set off by default as they are soemthign thts abused quite often ?
| Quote: |
so you have a problem with the old forum and the new forum, and you don't want to be a part of it in future... i fail to see what the problem is then jk... if you are that sore about it.. start your own forum. seriously.... i started the (maybe) first old corolla specific forum many years ago (ok, well only 4 or 5) and that started a community of oldcorolla owners....
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nothings perfect and it sure will not improve w/o effort and input and amybe what youve suggested is beyond my skills level at this time ?
| Quote: |
when toymods began it fostered a good toyota MODIFYING community..
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exactly, there was a community, yet its hard to increase a community whne not felt welcome or called a noob for asking what factory rims fit a ke20 as a hypothetical example
| Quote: |
just go and start your own forum and decide the kind of ppl you will allow to join.... it's a free world, forums can be set up online for free.... go ahead.
i fail to se why the signup process should be loosened up for ppl who wish to remain anonymous. this is a COMMUNITY. for LIKE MINDED people... if you are not of the same opinion, then you are not part of that like-minded community.. deal with it
and now we have non-toyota owners wanting to have a say in how the toyota forums are run? sheesh
everyone just get over it.. either sign up or don't. if you have a specific issue, email the board. your life will not stop while you are waiting a couple of weeks for them to get back to you. be glad they even get back to you at all. thy are doing you a favour by contributing THEIR OWN TIME so you can post drivel
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i fail to see why a life story is required to partake in a forum publically available...
as ive mentioend above and in other posts
the required info is offputtign at best and either scary insulting or confusing at worse
sure i appreciate the fact of trying to eliminate idiots yet by banning them or failign to give them acces they go elsewhere in our greater community and thats not resolvign the problem of social behaviour is it now ?
we are a coommunity within greater comunities and it is our responsibility to raise our juniors to whats acceptable and this is not beign done i feel with the ban and forget approach
im sure there are many a great mind out there shunned by society thats going to waste atm and due to this is left festering only hatred wich theres already too much in this world
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 17:52
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| 4DaDrift wrote on Thu, 24 November 2005 03:15 |
i know and appreciate the fact the classifieds are not the central focus of the forums and the club yet they are a major part of what makes these forums
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hopefully in the new forums, the importance of the classifieds will diminish. hopefully the new "for sale rules" will discourage many people from bothering (ie, no EOI, published prices etc etc)..
running the forums is not just about money and membership. more money doesn't = extra time for the guys to run things. they are volunteers. thats all. there are no staff.
| 4DaDrift wrote |
what pushes old timers away is the proliferation of morons who post anything and everything they think of, reply with crap when they don't actually know it to be true, and generally bring the level of technical content down.
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you misunderstand me. i am referring to the people whose mates budgies mechanic told them such and such, and then they spout this as truth when it is laughable bullshit. people shouldn't post answers unless they know it is true.. not just think it is true. toymods trash is still trash.. no-one benefits from poor information.
| 4DaDrift wrote |
to start with
we start by socialising before goign in depth shareing our knowlege i feel
we desire to get the pulse of things to begin with and then branch out the more confident and proficent we become
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in other words.. noobs should sit back and not post for awhile and READ THE FORUMS to see how it works... ie lurk... and then post when they get into the flow of things.... same for all good forums..
socialise smocialise, i have not, and probably will not, meet most of the people on my forums, but i happily help where i can to share knowledge with people who want to learn.. as opposed to those that expect to be spoonfed.
those ppl that have PM'd me with good questions in the right manner get long detailed replies and i go out of my way to help ppl... uck knows why.. it must be an affliction of sorts.
| 4DaDrift wrote |
noo yada yada
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there will always be noobs, and the difference here is that if someone has a good attitude, they will get all the help they can handle. if they are clueless (and i mean they just blunder in and have no respect for others = taking the time to try and find out for themseles) then they will not be helped. EVERYONE, in real life or teh intahnet, appreciates someone else actually showing some initiative.
recent threads which begin with "i couldn't be fucked searching so blah blah" this is not what anyone wants to encourage. it should be stamped out vigourously.
| 4DaDrift wrote |
exactly, there was a community, yet its hard to increase a community whne not felt welcome or called a noob for asking what factory rims fit a ke20 as a hypothetical example
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as a hypothetical example, a search WILL reveal that there was both shitty and normal stud patterns available. and that there was also transverse leaf spring front ends in them too heck there are totally seperate communities dealing with oldcorolla eccentricities..
| 4DaDrift wrote |
i fail to see why a life story is required to partake in a forum publically available...
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you see life story, i see name and contact details... if that is all your life amounts to.. well.... time to get off keyboard (smiley required..)
| 4DaDrift wrote |
sure i appreciate the fact of trying to eliminate idiots yet by banning them or failign to give them acces they go elsewhere in our greater community and thats not resolvign the problem of social behaviour is it now ?
we are a coommunity within greater comunities and it is our responsibility to raise our juniors to whats acceptable and this is not beign done i feel with the ban and forget approach
im sure there are many a great mind out there shunned by society thats going to waste atm and due to this is left festering only hatred wich theres already too much in this world
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this my friend is a completely seperate and different issue. just becaue a fuckwit comes to toymods and is not flamed for being a fuckwit when they post, does not mean that they will become a normal human being. toymods is not here to reform societies ills (unless constitution has changed??)
toymods forum is a bunch of people talking about modifying toyota cars.. not solving the worlds issues (althogh some would have you believe that the bourke engine wil fix everything)
if a moron is banned for being.. a moron and disregarding the rules of engagement for toymods and generally showing disrespect (it's funny when ppl start flaming mods ) then they will naturally end up at hot4s forum... thats the way darwinism works.
sure there are many great minds festering out there, but it was their choice to do a PhD and withdraw from society, not toymods
how many times a week do you want to answer the same question? how many times a day do you want to have to read SMS speak on the new forums? there are many threads i could easily contribute to but refrain from doing so because of the attitudes displayed by the posters. it is simply not worth my time to help people who cannot and WILL NOT help themselves even slightly.
if you wish to bear this burden on your shoulders, feel free to help all the noobs when they get flamed. you could even start a forum (it's very easy.. an hour or so of reading up and you could easily do it yourself) and then all banned toymods rejects can go there and it will be a happy place, where ppl can l337 it up and talk about 50kg springs and drifting FWD's etc etc
for a forum to retain it's integrity (as in society), standards must be set. we have the priveledge to set our own standards because we do not have a moral obligation to help everyone. this is a community of ENTHUSIASTS.. i hardly think that someone coming to toymods and asking how to change their blinker fluid constitutes enthusiasm
perhaps you could also hassle Shannons for only deciding to insure enthusiasts.... and campaign for them to have to insure everyone, regardless if they fit their desired profile or not.
open discussion is a good thing. open slather is not. just because someone can use a computer does not ive them the RIGHT to post on toymods, nor does it convey any RESPONSIBILITY to any other forum user to provide suitable replies.
you have te right to disagree with the requirements of the new forum. that right is the right not to join. the current forum has egraded to the point where knowledgable people could not be bothered, and it's not due to the classifieds, and is not due to the outhouse, nor general car talk. it is overwhelmingly due to the increase in totally crap threads posted in the tech section...
oh my stereo isn't workign.. did you check the fuse... nuh....
a waste of bandwidth...
so before you post in your thread again, stop and think what it is you are really objecting to. and read your sig as others see it... i see it is offensive.
| Quote: |
Complete censorship
Coming to a thread near you...
NOT HAPPY WITH THE CURRENT BOARD AND THEIR ACTIONS ?
BECOME A MEMBER OF THE CAR CLUB AND VOTE THE FASCIST POLICE STATE HOWARD LOVING MEMBERS OUT !!!!
HAVE YOUR SAY...
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complete censorship, fairy nuff, you may not like your shit replies (general you) to be deleted, but it is necessary to stop shit breeding shit.
so you are not hapy with the board. ok.
so you think they are fascist police state howard loving members?
what fucking drugs are you on? how is that possibly relevant? do you actually think the board members are fascists?? or that they favour a police state? or that they vote liberal? your use of capitals and exclamation marks leaves little room for the interpretation that you are "just kidding", or "don't actually feel that strongly about it" even tho you are effectively yelling it in forum speak.
considering that the board is working tirelessly to make this forum less of a shit heap than it has become (when even now it is still many levels above almost all other car forums around), reading your sig makes me want to stand up and say "go and get fucked". if you feel that srongly about it then just fuck right off to one of the many other shit forums around.
they can't possibly be worse than the fascist police state this forum apparently is
your posts in this thread seem reasonable, but your signature, that appears after EVERY post you make, belittles you far more than you realise.
i have no idea if this is the opinion of the board members, or of the car club members in general, and they may not be at liberty to say how they feel (PM me board if you feel i am too far out of line), but to read about how people find thee new measures appressive and it restricts their ability to shit all over this forum absolutely sickens me. there are many people that i would personally ban if i had the chance, simply becaue thy are right royal fuckstains, but there are many ppl i would not, i may disagree with them, but they are not fucstains and different opinions are good..
some people should find other forums to play with during their holidays.
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 17:59
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anyway, thats how i feel... i have a couple of international conferences to present lectures at over the next week, so....
please continue
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 21:19
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Fuck man, i'm not going to read all that 
Post a short version
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Toymods Club Treasurer
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 22:22
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Thanks Stewart, your responses are appreciated.
4DaDrift, it was all the capitals & exclamation marks in your signature which you don't use anywhere else that grabbed my attention about your signature.
If you want to be sarcastic, then don't promote it so boldly.
Being originally of German ancestry, I take particular offence it at because of a couple of little wars last century.
You say its not aimed at anyone in particular, but by saying the board, you are automatically implying the people who make up the board.
BTW, a definition of fascism:
noun: a political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government (as opposed to democracy or liberalism)
The board is:
authoritarian: yes, but voted there by the financial members to run the club in the members best interest
hierarchical: yes, but only amongst the board. We don't feel above the rest of the members, its just that we decided we have some time to spare & feel passionately enough about the club to do something about it.
Sounds more like democracy to me....
The biggest cause of "censorship" on the forum is in order to protect the reputation of the club by removing slanderous material mainly that doesn't promote a community spirit.
I can understand your point about people who are not residents of Sydney not being able to come, but your profile says you're a resident of Sydney, yet I don't know if you've tried asking others for transport to get to a meeting.
I don't have a licence at the moment, but I'm still getting around to places due to the generousity of others.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 23:30
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I really think a wiki would be a good idea. That way people could take some time to surmise things they've learned in threads, and it could be worked on an refined to provide a solid knowledge base, rather than a scattering of threads that don't link up, and are threaded with stuff that was usefull at the time, but ends up just being more stuff you have to read then throw out.
But yeah I'm already signed up on the new forums. Please don't send my contact details to a spam register.
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Toymods Board Member
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Wed, 23 November 2005 23:54
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4DaDrift...
we've had these discussions with you many times before and you obviously still don't get it...
firstly... the changes to the forums were discussed publicly at general toymods meetings and the board was given support by members to implement them
secondly... catering to non-members has always been a low priority of the club and rightly so...
Toymods is first and foremost a CAR CLUB that organises regular events, cruises and meetings for its financial members. The internet is used as a means to help our members communicate. It has since developed into a way of attracting new members.
If "old" forum users get scared of the new forums and run far far away then that simply is their loss.
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Membership Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Thu, 24 November 2005 00:38
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| Shraka wrote on Thu, 24 November 2005 10:30 |
I really think a wiki would be a good idea. That way people could take some time to surmise things they've learned in threads, and it could be worked on an refined to provide a solid knowledge base, rather than a scattering of threads that don't link up, and are threaded with stuff that was usefull at the time, but ends up just being more stuff you have to read then throw out.
But yeah I'm already signed up on the new forums. Please don't send my contact details to a spam register.
|
We are working on providing "official" technical documentation. It won't be open like a Wiki but users *will* be able to (and openly encouraged to) contribute.
Unfortunately, there are more pressing issues that the Board is currently dealing with so the tech docs will have to wait.
In the mean time, if anyone wants to help collect info from these forums and put them into a tech doc, please feel free to contact the Board and volunteer your help.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Thu, 24 November 2005 01:29
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yep - Nark is spot on regarding the tech docs.
There is a WHOLE NEW tab page being created (it's currently invisible) on the website which will be the new "TECH LIBRARY" - the home of all the biggest, best, and most referenced articles that deserve to be given as much coverage as possible.
What we are encouraging is for people to write their own articles and submit them.
The easiest way to do this is post up your article on the new forums in tech and conversions, PM me, josh or rod to direct our attention to it, and if we like it... we'll move it into the FAQ of the forums.
Then after a little bit of cleaning up, checking and slight improving - the FAQ will become a published article in the Tech Library!
You could also just email it to the board, but by posting it up on the forums you allow a greater audience to strutenise and ammend the article, ensuring the highest level of tech data.
Dont worry Shraka, i'm making it a personal mission to get the highest level of tech data as visible as possible to the world that visits the toymods website.
Notice how with the new website the forums are integrated so that you HAVE to see the complete website?
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Toymods Vice President
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Thu, 24 November 2005 02:42
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I'd just like to cover a couple of the things put forward by 4dadrift.
1) The "no consultation" claims, made in this thread.
In addition to the consultation of our club members, the majority of the changes to the new forum are based around complaints that have been bought up by people in the feedback section of this forum. Take a look around. there is a call for no sign ups during school holiday's as an example, we're not doing this because I think it is unfair to not accept any members just because of the time of year. However we are trying to improve the quality of people joining simply by having them give some details that make them feel more ownership for their actions. We have people asking for minimum post limits before using the classifieds section, we've implemented this with reputation where the members of the forum can make the decisions. We have people asking for a way to differentiate club members from forum members and we have implemented this as well.
Actually lets take a bit more of a look at that last one. Why were people asking to have a way to differentiate club members from forum members? The reason is that our club members feel that the image of the club is hurt by the behaviour of a hell of a lot of the members of the forum. Due to this they want people reading the forum to see who is a member of the club so they can get a feel for the quality of people they will be socialising with at official meetings and events. It's sad that this is something that is needed but we live in a changing world where it's not possible to just let everyone do what ever they want.
2) The six month membership drive to give people a taste of what it's like to be a member of the club without as much expense for merchandise.
Our meetings are all open to the public completely free of charge. All of our events are also open to the public, unless there is an issue with numbers where members would miss out if we let non members take places. Sure generally at events it is more expensive for non members but this is one of the benefits of joining the club.
As you can see we are extremely happy to have people come along and see if they want to be a member of the club before they join. In fact it's very much preffered, we don't want people joining the club and getting something they didn't expect.
As to your signature, while I do see how people could be offended by it, I could not be bothered asking for it to be changed. The ignorance and generalisation shown in it really explains a lot and gives people a good understanding of where it is you're coming from.
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Thu, 24 November 2005 05:03
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I have a few points that I'd like to raise as a Toyota lover from WA....I just signed up to the new forum and was met with not being able to do anything other than read posts....I mean whats the point of being on a forum if you cant add the knowledge you have?
Secondly...Is this some kind of ploy to get those forum members who aren't "official toymods members" to pay the membership to cough up some $$$????
I mean what benefit is there for me in WA to be a member of an eastern state club?
I am an active member in OST...run by WATRD83...and not only enjoy driving my MA61, but enjoy talking to and meeting with like-minded enthusists.
So basically what i'm asking is how do i get "priviledges" such as an avatar and being able to post without coughing up money?
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Thu, 24 November 2005 05:12
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as stated in many other threads when your subscription is approved you can start posting as you always have.
As for avatars etc, there is an FAQ that says that they are restricted to toymods members. you will still be able to post without having an avatar...
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Thu, 24 November 2005 05:21
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Your inability to post is probably covered in the FAQs.
-1 reputation.
It's not a drive to make money. The avatar issue has been covered above.
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Location:
Kellyville, Sydney
Registered:
June 2004
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Thu, 24 November 2005 06:36
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with regards to the new classifieds, i find it strange that only toyotas are allowed to be advirtised, when at all other points on the site people are encouraged to come along to events regardless of what car they drive.
i'm assuming this is to stop those who sign up and say "who whats to buy my $20k skyline" etc and then dissapear forever when they get no response. i think that this is a good thing because these people annoy me too. but i think there are ligitamate members of the forums who are going to be dissadvantaged by this.
so my suggestion is to give more posting rights to finacial members of the club. if someone who pays money to the club and is an active part of the toymods community wants to sell their car, it is not the same as someone who has just signed up for 20 different forums looking for the biggest sucker.
i'm not sure how difficult this would be. but it was just an idea i had that i thought might intrest some people
love your work guys
chris
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Location:
Perth, WA
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Thu, 24 November 2005 07:57
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| Nark wrote on Thu, 24 November 2005 16:21 |
Your inability to post is probably covered in the FAQs.
-1 reputation.
It's not a drive to make money. The avatar issue has been covered above.
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Yeah but it doesn't say WHY
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Thu, 24 November 2005 09:19
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| mynameisrodney wrote on Thu, 24 November 2005 17:36 |
with regards to the new classifieds, i find it strange that only toyotas are allowed to be advirtised, when at all other points on the site people are encouraged to come along to events regardless of what car they drive.
i'm assuming this is to stop those who sign up and say "who whats to buy my $20k skyline" etc and then dissapear forever when they get no response. i think that this is a good thing because these people annoy me too. but i think there are ligitamate members of the forums who are going to be dissadvantaged by this.
so my suggestion is to give more posting rights to finacial members of the club. if someone who pays money to the club and is an active part of the toymods community wants to sell their car, it is not the same as someone who has just signed up for 20 different forums looking for the biggest sucker.
i'm not sure how difficult this would be. but it was just an idea i had that i thought might intrest some people
love your work guys
chris
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I don't see the point in limiting it just to Toyotas. You can't post in the for sale section without having some of those credit things (same with the avitar). So that stops people from comming in just to post their car and leave. Also the signup process on the new site is crazy. So most people wouldn't bother just to sell their skyline.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Thu, 24 November 2005 13:39
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Niel, firstly i cant believe i jsut read this whole thread i want the hour of my life back. you have raised some valid points but whilst doing so your failing to see the bigger picture.
im one of the people josh is talking about when it comes to requesting that financial and non financial members be clearly identified. my reason for suggesting this in the first place is if police decide they want to put a close eye on toymods and see someone posting about doing something illegal its clear whehter or not the person responsible for the post is financially affilated with the club or not. it helps to protect the image and reputation of the club in the public eye.
you complain about having to hand over your personal details and i have read many of your previous posts in regards to this as well. can i ask you something... what do you plan on filling out on your membership form when u actually get round to paying for a proper membership? becuase the questions are basically the same if not identical. the more you complain about security issues the more "outsiders" will become aware of the setup and more likely to try and hit it.
MODS: in the time of the forums, how many times has it been hacked or attempted to be hacked?
also note that EVERY SINGLE moderator also has their details in the server along with yours. im sure if they didnt think they were going to be safe then they wouldnt expect you to put yours there either. you probably have more chance of someone finding out your phone number off a raffle ticket you bought at the local fair at the end of the day. like someone said before, if someone REALLY wanted your details, they'd have them without a fuss. There are so many ways that are actually legal to find out information about someone, if you have ever registered a business name then its to end of the road for you already buddy.
on another note when was the last time you were a financial member of the car club? it frustates me that you speak and expect to be treated like a financial member when you actually arent. i have payed my membership fees, in the time you have complained about the new forums, if you put away 5 bucks a week you would probably have enough for membership by now. at the end of the day, 5 bucks is what? about the same a 2 cheeseburgers
its my view that people look at the current toymods forums as a place to sell off stuff and post a bit of shit. people should be opening up the forums for the sole purpose of reading tech info and posting valid and accurate tech info for others to read.
im loyal to my brand. and i agree with the fact that you can only sell toyota cars in the FS section. if you dont own a toyota u dont deserve any help in getting rid of it! haha having said that i HAVE sold 2 non toyota's through to current forums but if it wasnt allowed i would have just chucked them in the trading post. im sure everyone can understand that not everyone owns a toyota but remember this is a TOYOTA club for TOYOTA enthusists when i first came to the forums i was expecting toyota and thats what i should get.
I think everyone is probably guilty of posting shit up from time to time, ill admit to me some of its funny but alot of it is getting out of hand. ill also admit that the new forums arent as exciting as the current ones, theres no contraversy, no hilarious flaming of idiots from Stewart and theres no funny random shit. but at the end of the day its the internet and its just a few clicks further and i can find some of the funny shit myself (or just make it up in my head ) but i prefer it that way. i dont have to filter through pages and pages to try and find a question i asked in the tech section 3 hours ago and when i wana get on the forum it doesnt take 20 thousand years for the page to load.
at the end of the day perhaps it would have been a good idea to turn up to at least one meeting to voice your opinion to the board. like karl said also if you want the changes so bad then STEP UP! if your not prepared to step up like the board members have done so then just deal with it. i cant stand people like you who whinge and bitch and moan about all the problems the plague them but when an oppurtunity arises for them to be able to take a stand and do something about it there no where to be see all of a sudden.
some of the things ive outlined may not be directed at you casue i cant really remember whos written what throughout this post so ive just replied in general.
everyone here has taken the time to see things from your point of view and we understand, but take the time to see things from ours before having another outburst.
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: OFFICIAL NEW FORUMS DISCUSSION THREAD - drop kicks NOT welcome
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Thu, 24 November 2005 21:21
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Shraka,
as a non-club member n00b, you actually ARE able to post in "Toyotas for sale" only. We decided on this because we often get many people ask us "where can i sell my *** toyota?".... and we want them to be able to list it on the forums for the benefit of our members.
Limiting it to TOyota's is simple. This is a TOYOTA-based car club, allowing people to post anything would be giving people a free classifieds service.
Club members ONLY actually have the ability to post in the "miscellaneous for sale" section, which i *guess* could be used for a club member to sell their shitbox holden etc. But thats only for club members.
again, it comes down to "what do we want the forums to be"
- we want the forums to be a highly reputable tech knowledge base
- we DO NOT want them to be a free classifieds service
Maniac,
the answers to why have been given out several times before. But breifly the reasons are to stop people from being wookies.
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