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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
September 2003
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 What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 00:22
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Hey All,
I'm just curious what's the general thoughts on the new camry sportivo? *or the whole sportivo range*
How do you think it would go compared to a new celica...???
I'm just curious at this point - I have a small idea in the back of my head that I think would make a great conversion but I dunno if its worth that MUCH money...
anyway any thoughts?
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 01:54
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the sportivo range is just an excuse to label bodykitting , though the corolla version is perkier ( via celica motor ) but not that exciting from what all the journos have said about it - you need to rev the crap out of it just to make it move
They might be TRYING to be " sporty " but every new toyota on the market has no " spirit "
they are all bland - boring econoboxes - and the sportivos are jsut bland boring econoboxes with a wing or two thrown in ..
bring back the AWD celicas , turbo supras , and ballzy Supercharged corollas and we might have some zing to inspire us enthusiasts for the toyota badge then
otherwise
MAJOR YAWN!
biggest joke is neal bates ads - comparing the corolla sportivo with his rallycar - YEAH RIGHT - all thats in common between the two are body panels ..
Under it is a 1996 era St205 Celica Gt4 drivetrain ... Toyota havent come up with anything half decent to rally in over half a decade.
now if they had shoehorned that drivetrain into a CELICA and marketed it - look out WRX and EVO fans . It doesnt look half bad with a bodykit on it - but it once again LACKS BALLS! It screams turbo me please
camry sportivo - made for drandpas who like corners going to bowls ..
Echo sportivo - What the ?
News of late is a little brighter though - rumour has it toyota are plaaning limited edition runs of MR2 and celica - hopefully this means TURBO versions of them - or better usage of the vvti setup.
that camry powered spyder thing too was pretty coo, - kudos there - but see it in showrooms - nope ? they facelift the avalon - the biggest joke on the aussie car market since the AU falcon's looks
Gah - not worth anymore ranting
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 02:52
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couldn't have summed it up better.
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
September 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 05:45
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toyota have some seriously fantastic engineering in their latest generation of vehicles, like engines and gearboxes etc
pity they stuff them in obese bodies like the new camry and freaky styled bodies like the echo.
imagine the 1.5L vvti engine in a car similar in dimensions to the sprinter (even if it was FWD) with the echo dash and camry lights... that would sell serious numbers.
i mean, what would it have to compete with? a 60kW SOHC mirage, a 70kW 1.5L accent and some other korean shitboxes like KIA etc.
mitsubishi had a chance to import the MIVEC mirages and they're paying for it now.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 07:09
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| onejayzed wrote on Mon, 29 December 2003 16:45 |
with the echo dash and camry lights... that would sell serious numbers.
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echo dash? euuwww, they look soo gay
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 07:20
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Yeah, like I said. NONE of the new Toyotas appeal to me. Bring back the Supra Styling, bring back the old MR2! Have cars with Turbos in them! Waaah!
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Location:
The Eastwood MASSIVE !
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 09:33
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A 1994 1.6L 4age smallport makes 100kw
My mums 2002 1.8L bubble box corolla makes 100kw also , revs no where near as high and sits higher than a range rover.
Bring back the aggressive G series heads. Surely toyota can produce G series engines that are both powerful , revy , and reasonaly cheap on the pocket and fuel. It's not like they haven't done it before.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 13:19
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I helped by a Camry Sportivo for the woman's father. I love the car.
Just think of it as a sportier Camry and you won't be disappointed. It's not a sports car by any means.
It's got great torque down low, a pretty decent ride for a family car, and Toyota build quality.
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 13:43
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Where is the toyota muscle that once existed and ruled in the 80' and 90's? Its died off, the only "performance" cars they have out now are the mr2 and the celica, you could count in the corrola sportivo too i guess. Its a trend, nissan are following suit as well, shortening their sports line and catering for a larger market. Personally i hate the Sportivo line, its all looks and very little go in comparison to what toyota used to have. And the name Sportivo just makes me cringe, its so freakin gay! Like a 5 year old came up with it, to me it makes the company seem kinda pathetic, their public image.
It appears as though the company is run by lawyers and accountants now, no risk taking and hence no mad cars :*(
Oh well, i'll continue to cherish and adore the "oldschool" toyotas, they were made with passion rather than just to make moolah.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
August 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 19:28
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nah i have heared that the corolla sportivo actually does go pretty fast ... my friend that works at toyota have told me he took one as a promotion car to drive around in and he said they are still pretty revy ... and very smooth and damn ballsy ...
so i think it would be interesting to drop these new motors in say an AE82 and see how it goes ... im pretty confident it will go pretty hard due to itz VVTL-i technology ...
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 22:28
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We are looking back at an age passed ladies and gentlemen. Affordable performance cars are a thing of an age gone by. We are now in the age of gutless ugly 'sports' cars. These cars are not designed to thrill those that like powerful and nimble cars, but to cater to those interested only in European design the word 'sports' on their otherwise cushy family sedans.
I see the trends everywhere. The RX7 was a 2 seater turbo monster. The RX8 is a 4 seater 'sports' car (although, there are rumors of the RX7s return). Toyota has abandoned its Supra, and has dumbed down the Celica and MR2 for people who prefer to drive to the golf course than the race track. Nissan has decided it would be best not to make any more cars based on the SR20 engine, have turned the once mighty Skyline into one UGLY family sedan. While the 350Z has guts, I believe it's fairly unattractive when compared to the RX7, Supra JZA80, S13 to S15 silvia, last gen MR2... the list goes on.
If I wanted a European designed car, I would get a BMW, Peugeot, Renault or another actual European car. But I don't want European design. I'm interested in aggressive styling and an engine that screams LETS GO!
Although, I have no money. I'm not their target audience. So perhaps we should all become millionaires, and complain to Toyota that the absence of a TURBO JZ type Supra is pissing us all off, and that we want a decent performance package out of the Celica and MR2... oh and while we are at it, we would like cars that don't look like they where designed by some drug fucked Peugeot employee.
[Updated on: Mon, 29 December 2003 22:32]
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 23:13
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I disagree. I like the look of them. And the performance is pretty good if you ask me.
My Uncle has a v6 manual (not Sportivo) and it really is a very nice car to drive. And it goes! Ran it on the dyno the other day and got 115fwkw which really is pretty impressive.
Just wanted to say that they might be marketed at "ladies" cars, but really they are very nice to drive.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 23:43
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115fwkw. Compare that to my gz20 soarer from 88. It made 115rwkw when stock also. I don't see any improvements there.
Seriously, unless you have BIG dollars you won't get a sports car these days, all you'll get is a dressed up family car eg. HSV, Sportivo and the list goes on.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Mon, 29 December 2003 23:45
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Yes, but the soarer when new was what? $80k??? The camry cost him $30k. And for a family sedan, it is not too bad.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Tue, 30 December 2003 05:02
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| bassaholic55 wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 10:43 |
115fwkw. Compare that to my gz20 soarer from 88. It made 115rwkw when stock also. I don't see any improvements there.
Seriously, unless you have BIG dollars you won't get a sports car these days, all you'll get is a dressed up family car eg. HSV, Sportivo and the list goes on.
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I think you're confusing Flywheel kW with Front wheel kW...
The 1MZ-FE makes 115kW at the front wheels (from what was stated above).
The GZ20 had the 114kW 1G-GEU (flywheel kW).
Even if you compare it to an MZ20, you'll find that the improvements don't just stop at a single kW figure... Torque delivery, fuel consumption, no BHG  are just a few improvements to the engine department.
If you've ever been in a new Camry, you'll see how sturdy they are. The build quality is just awesome.
You just can't compare them.
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Tue, 30 December 2003 05:10
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my gz20 had a 1g-gte and it dynoed at 115kw at the rear wheels with an air filter.
No doubt the build quality is awesome. Toyotas always have been IMO but seriously as a car enthusiast there is no way I would be looking at any of the current range offered by Toyota Australia as a future car. I know that they are just trying to make money and in the end, I think that will be the downfall of the performance car. Too much R&D to make a good car and then they have to sell them for heaps. Then they don't sell very many (compared to Camrys) and make little money.
Doesn't look good 
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Tue, 30 December 2003 05:22
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True. I am disappointed in a lot of their recent cars. However if I was looking at a mid sized family car I would seriously think about the camry.
Oh, and I like the Kluger. 
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Tue, 30 December 2003 06:31
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| Nark wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 15:02 |
| bassaholic55 wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 10:43 |
115fwkw. Compare that to my gz20 soarer from 88. It made 115rwkw when stock also. I don't see any improvements there.
Seriously, unless you have BIG dollars you won't get a sports car these days, all you'll get is a dressed up family car eg. HSV, Sportivo and the list goes on.
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I think you're confusing Flywheel kW with Front wheel kW...
The 1MZ-FE makes 115kW at the front wheels (from what was stated above).
The GZ20 had the 114kW 1G-GEU (flywheel kW).
Even if you compare it to an MZ20, you'll find that the improvements don't just stop at a single kW figure... Torque delivery, fuel consumption, no BHG are just a few improvements to the engine department.
If you've ever been in a new Camry, you'll see how sturdy they are. The build quality is just awesome.
You just can't compare them.
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No you can't compare them. The 15 YO soarer is just leaps and bounds ahead of the current designs.
You can't deny it though. All of the "sports cars" these days are just family shopping trollies. HSV, XR6/8, VRX, "sportivo", etc. All are 4 door family cars trying for sporty looks.
What we need is a return of the peformance car. To me the car industry died in 1998. The only thing that has kept it from a total loss is subaru with the WRX.
And as for european looks that was ranted above, heck, if I did have a BMW or merc, they would be the best looking thing on the road, because I don't know where else in europe they got the "european design" from to create some of the most butt-ugly cars the world has ever seen. Certainly wasn't from where they got the designs for BMW or Mercedes.
In fact, if it's touted with "european design" as a highlight, I take that as a warning to steer clear because you know it will be a shocker.
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Location:
Colac, Victoria
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Tue, 30 December 2003 06:51
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give the camry to the yanks - put the avalon out of its misery ..
BRING ME THE CHASER!!
a toyota with balls and good looks 
something all aussie ones are sadly lacking atm
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Tue, 30 December 2003 08:20
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| bassaholic55 wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 16:10 |
Too much R&D to make a good car and then they have to sell them for heaps. Then they don't sell very many (compared to Camrys) and make little money.
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Isn't this why you're attracted to Toyota's though? I know that's the reason I love them. When you buy one, you know that they aren't gonna break down on you.
You can't compare a JDM Soarer to an Aussie Camry and say that Toyota don't make good cars any more. If you want to go JDM, then there's the Chaser. If you want to stick to Aussie, look at the Aussie Camry back then (or the Corona depending upon the year). They're two distinctly different markets.
| Apollo wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 17:31 |
You can't deny it though. All of the "sports cars" these days are just family shopping trollies. HSV, XR6/8, VRX, "sportivo", etc. All are 4 door family cars trying for sporty looks.
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FWD: Clio Sport, Integra Type-R, Celica
AWD: WRX, S3/S4 (or the RS counterparts)
RWD: 200SX, MR2 (shame Aussies only get auto), Elise, 350Z, RX-8
The only 4 door shopping trolleys there are the AWDs. Refer below.
| Apollo wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 17:31 |
What we need is a return of the peformance car. To me the car industry died in 1998. The only thing that has kept it from a total loss is subaru with the WRX.
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This is a classic example of marketing over engineering. This is an example of your so called "4 door family cars trying for sporty looks" and yet you seem to love it. Why?
Marketing and cult status. All it needed was for a gang to use them for ram raids and evade some cops, then add in the media hype and you've got an instant classic.
No one thinks of the 200SX the same way as the WRX. Even despite it being faster, handles better, was purposefully designed as a sports car (not a FWD shopping trolley). It's better in every single way for the same amount of money. So why is the WRX so much more popular?
And don't mention rally unless you're talking Grp N.
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD, Australia
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Tue, 30 December 2003 09:03
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| Nark wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 18:20 |
| bassaholic55 wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 16:10 |
Too much R&D to make a good car and then they have to sell them for heaps. Then they don't sell very many (compared to Camrys) and make little money.
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Isn't this why you're attracted to Toyota's though? I know that's the reason I love them. When you buy one, you know that they aren't gonna break down on you.
You can't compare a JDM Soarer to an Aussie Camry and say that Toyota don't make good cars any more. If you want to go JDM, then there's the Chaser. If you want to stick to Aussie, look at the Aussie Camry back then (or the Corona depending upon the year). They're two distinctly different markets.
| Apollo wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 17:31 |
You can't deny it though. All of the "sports cars" these days are just family shopping trollies. HSV, XR6/8, VRX, "sportivo", etc. All are 4 door family cars trying for sporty looks.
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FWD: Clio Sport, Integra Type-R, Celica
AWD: WRX, S3/S4 (or the RS counterparts)
RWD: 200SX, MR2 (shame Aussies only get auto), Elise, 350Z, RX-8
The only 4 door shopping trolleys there are the AWDs. Refer below.
| Apollo wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 17:31 |
What we need is a return of the peformance car. To me the car industry died in 1998. The only thing that has kept it from a total loss is subaru with the WRX.
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This is a classic example of marketing over engineering. This is an example of your so called "4 door family cars trying for sporty looks" and yet you seem to love it. Why?
Marketing and cult status. All it needed was for a gang to use them for ram raids and evade some cops, then add in the media hype and you've got an instant classic.
No one thinks of the 200SX the same way as the WRX. Even despite it being faster, handles better, was purposefully designed as a sports car (not a FWD shopping trolley). It's better in every single way for the same amount of money. So why is the WRX so much more popular?
And don't mention rally unless you're talking Grp N.
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EH?
No I don't love the family barge going for the sporty look. That was my whole point on why our market is so sad and basically it's the only image that the general public have of what a "sports car" should be.
Why is the wrx popular?
Because you can buy it locally is #1 on my list. #2 would be because you can leave it stock and it's still a monster. Before you say glass gearbox, I'm talking about the 2003 models.
200sx? Not interested in nissan imports.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Tue, 30 December 2003 12:29
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| Apollo wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 20:03 |
No I don't love the family barge going for the sporty look.
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The WRX falls into that category. It's just an Impreza with a bigger engine and a body kit. Just like HSVs and Sportivos.
| Apollo wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 20:03 |
Why is the wrx popular?
Because you can buy it locally is #1 on my list. #2 would be because you can leave it stock and it's still a monster. Before you say glass gearbox, I'm talking about the 2003 models.
200sx? Not interested in nissan imports.
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So you prefer a done up shopping trolley over a purpose-built sports car.
You typify that which you claim to resent:
| Apollo wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 20:03 |
That was my whole point on why our market is so sad and basically it's the only image that the general public have of what a "sports car" should be.
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We can forget about this talk about speed too. The 200SX is faster and is actually (*shock*) fun to drive.
It's a shame the 2003 emisions laws killed off the 200SX.
It's also a shame that the general public sing praises to an inferior car.
But, lo and behold, we come back on track, it's this sort of mentality which allows Toyota Australia to get away with the Sportivo range. The image of being fast is more important to the general public than actually being fast.
If a car enthusiast would choose a WRX over a 200SX, then he'd prolly take the Camry Sportivo over an Integra Type-R too.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Tue, 30 December 2003 13:10
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| Quote: |
No one thinks of the 200SX the same way as the WRX. Even despite it being faster, handles better, was purposefully designed as a sports car (not a FWD shopping trolley). It's better in every single way for the same amount of money. So why is the WRX so much more popular?
And don't mention rally unless you're talking Grp N.
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I've pondered why the WRX has such a following. I think it's because it is still the choice of car for criminals as a getaway car. I think it appeals to certain people that they can own a car that can out drive a cop chaser. Not to mention that at one stage they were very easy to break into, were plentiful and had four doors to carry a full load around.
Maybe the EVO VIII will hit the same notoriety when it gets here as well.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Tue, 30 December 2003 13:21
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| Classique71 wrote on Mon, 29 December 2003 12:54 |
Under it is a 1996 era St205 Celica Gt4 drivetrain ... Toyota havent come up with anything half decent to rally in over half a decade.
now if they had shoehorned that drivetrain into a CELICA and marketed it - look out WRX and EVO fans . It doesnt look half bad with a bodykit on it - but it once again LACKS BALLS! It screams turbo me please
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Well I've always theorised that if Toyota ever wanted to make a direct competitor to the WRX or EVO, ie 4 door mid size, it would have been a Camry SV25 4WD chassis with GT4 engine and drivetrain.
The closest the factory has come to in making a Sports Camry is a JDM 3S-GE SV21 named Camry GT 2000. Similar to a Corolla AE92 4A-GE but bigger.
The American 1MZ-FE Camry does have a TRD supercharger option, pulling 14s down the 1/4 mile. Unfortunately does fit LHD Camry. We also missed out on VVTi on the V6s.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Tue, 30 December 2003 13:34
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My thoughts in general about the Camry Sportivo. In the past it would have been called a Touring, which I think is a more appropriate name for it. Has a body kit and stiffer semi sport suspension which is great for cruise coastal roads when you are on holiday.
It is a shame we don't get the RWD cars like the Chaser and Mark II. But at the end of the day Toyota Australia needs to make a profit and it's doing it quite well the way it is at the moment. I think it's flirtation with some performance cars in the past wasn't as profitable as they had hoped for. It's not just the amount of cars they sell but other factors such as cost.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
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Location:
Northwestern Sydney
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Tue, 30 December 2003 22:58
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The New Sportivo Camry is a good package but is really based on the Camry it self (obviously) It handles suprisingly well But I'm still out on the price tag 
The sportivo corolla is closer to a sports can than the other toyotas on the market as there is a totally different engine setup from the base model Corolla. I'd like to see more of this from Toyota.
The AWD Magna seems to be a good package as well. And appear to be suprisingly quick (also quick on fuel)
I'd really like to see the Chaser land here.
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Location:
Central Coast
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Tue, 30 December 2003 23:51
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Toyota is the most profitable car maker in the world and part of the reason for this is because they make the type of cars the majority of people will buy, and unfortunately that doesn't include pure sport cars, because it costs alot money to develop the car from scratch, and only results in the company selling limited numbers in Australia.
HSV make a alot of money turning 4 door fleet cars in sports sedans that go like the clappers.
Ford,Mitsubishi and Toyota are doing the same because its cheaper and thats what Aussies want, simple as that.
The car companys would probably make a proper sports car if people would buy it, but it appears that Aussies love 4 door sports sedans, so car companies will continue to build what will sell best.
Happy New Year
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Wed, 31 December 2003 01:43
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A car manufacturer has to have at least one performance car in its line up, its the image of teh company that sells cars. And I wouldn't really call the celica a performance car, not in comparison to the likes of a s15, 350z, wrx, rx8 etc.
And the wrx is much more than just a tarted up impreza, initially it was but suburu have put a lot of engineering into this car to the level that it can compete with an evo (which is not a tarted up lancer  )
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
November 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Wed, 31 December 2003 04:18
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| Apollo wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 17:31 |
And as for european looks that was ranted above, heck, if I did have a BMW or merc, they would be the best looking thing on the road, because I don't know where else in europe they got the "european design" from to create some of the most butt-ugly cars the world has ever seen. Certainly wasn't from where they got the designs for BMW or Mercedes.
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It comes from companies like Peugeot and Renault. 
Look, the Camry Sportivo is rather a nice looker for a family sedan. If I was a family man who wanted a sports car, but didn't have enough to buy a sports car AND a family sedan, I would seriously look into the Sportivo.
But it's not a performance car.
Most Australians are very hung up on practicality. Lets face it, a Supra isn't the best car to take you mother and grandmother to the shops in, or go for a long trip with more than one other person in the car. And as for taking laugage... well that's not what it's for. It's for performance that makes your bowls release and you're mind lose grip on reality.
Utes do so well here 'cuz most Australians want a "performance" (and I use the term losely) car that can haul junk around.
If Toyota was to bring back the Supra with a similar body, a
VVT-i Inline 6 TT with about 220kw at the wheels for say, 80K how many of you would buy one? See that's the problem. People like us who want gut wrenching performance cant afford cars from the dealer, so they don't care about us.
It's unfortunate but true. Gone are the days of rich guys having a mid life crisis and buying a Supra RZ with all the trim so can pick up chicks half his age to have an affair with. Then selling it a few years later 'cuz his wife finds out. These days it's all BMWs and other practical cars like that. And realy, these people don't care if their car can still turn on a dime at 250kph, or even if it can get up to 250kph. And they are also brainwashed by European advertising thinking that the only good car is a European car. You just have to see how well the "European styled" cars do.
As for the WRX cult following I'm not sure. I mean, the 2.0 Flat 4 is appealing, as it AWD and, from a practical sense, the 4 doors. And the fact that it's Australian Delivered is a big bonus. It's a performance car, not just a sedan with a stupid fat engine or a bodykit and tighter suspension, and it doesn't cost much either. The 200sx may be better, but it's not even Australian Delivered. Most "car enthusiasts" don't know anything (present company excluded ofcourse). They think Ferrari's are just the be all and end all of performance (even though a Supra can kick their asses for a fith of the price). They think that displacement = power.
ie.
Dumbass One: My car is a 3.8
Dumbass Two: Oh YEAH? well my car is a 4.0!! That means my one is better! (Despite the fact that my one is about 200kg heavier... oops)
And a lot of them don't even know that doing exhaust mods after the cat doesn't really help performance at all until you do mods before the cat. And then when they do get extractors they forget that they have to have the engine re-tuned! Bah.
Lets all become Millionaires and pressure Toyota to bring back the Supra, a AWD Celica that kills EVOs and WRXs, and an MR2 that isn't teh gay!
Woh, sorry for the long rant.
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Location:
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May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Wed, 31 December 2003 14:26
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[quote title=Nark wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 22:29]| Apollo wrote on Tue, 30 December 2003 20:03 |
No I don't love the family barge going for the sporty look.
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The WRX falls into that category. It's just an Impreza with a bigger engine and a body kit. Just like HSVs and Sportivos.
Ha ha ha ha.. blah.
Pretty short sighted mentality there. I gave you more credit than that Nark.
Just like a HSV and sportivo? Far from it. The only similarity is the basic shell.
It's just like saying a 200sx is just a done up silvia. Or that an EVO is just a lancer with a hairdryer.
After that remark, I don't think it's worth arguing the rest because it'll go nowhere, and really, I now fail to see what argument there actually is with you singing praises to a car you can't even buy locally for the purposes of the topic, and that I didn't argue against for you to defend. I didn't say it was crap or wasn't a sports car. If you like it that much, sell the sillycar and buy one.
For me personally, I want a uzz31 and a jza80. Yes they are imports because that's the only option I have left for a decent car.
But if I was to buy an australian released car tomorrow, it would either be a WRX STI or seriously, base BA falcon. I really can't see myself buying a new toyota. All ugly (there's that european styling), and underpowered offerings. The only thing with balls seems to be the landcruiser with the V8. But then it's like the size of two camrys. Sure toyota is the most engineered from the bunch, but really, is it that hard to make an AWD camry with a 3uz? They have the gt4 drivetrain, it's done, it's developed. They have the chassis. It's all done it just needs to be put together. That'll be a monster that'll put everything else in it's range into it's place. Plus a lexus styled camry would be a very desirable machine IMO.
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Cabramatta, NSW
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May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Wed, 31 December 2003 15:53
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| Apollo wrote on Thu, 01 January 2004 01:26 |
Ha ha ha ha.. blah.
Pretty short sighted mentality there. I gave you more credit than that Nark.
Just like a HSV and sportivo? Far from it. The only similarity is the basic shell.
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WRX = Imprezza with bigger engine, drivetrain mods, bodykit
HSV = Commodore with bigger engine, drivetrain mods, bodykit
Sportivo (Corolla) = Corolla with bigger engine, drivetrain mods, bodykit
Where can you not see the similarity? Can you explain to me why a WRX is not a beefed up shopping trolley? Or why it wouldn't be grouped in the same class as the HSV and Sportivo range?
| Apollo wrote on Thu, 01 January 2004 01:26 |
After that remark, I don't think it's worth arguing the rest because it'll go nowhere, and really, I now fail to see what argument there actually is with you singing praises to a car you can't even buy locally for the purposes of the topic, and that I didn't argue against for you to defend. I didn't say it was crap or wasn't a sports car. If you like it that much, sell the sillycar and buy one.
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What's this talk about the 200SX not being locally delivered? It was locally delivered from circa 1991 to 2002. I'm talking from a historical viewpoint here as to why a superior car was outsold by mouth to mouth marketing of another.
And this was the crux of the whole argument. That marketing can help sell crap cars over superior competition.
| Apollo wrote on Thu, 01 January 2004 01:26 |
For me personally, I want a uzz31 and a jza80. Yes they are imports because that's the only option I have left for a decent car.
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On one hand you dismiss the 200SX because it's not locally delivered then you say you want a UZZ31?
Oh, and the 200SX (S14 and S15) is a Silvia. They're one and the same, not a beefed up version of another.
I've concentrated on the 200SX to simplify the argument. You can replace the 200SX with the MX-5 if you want. I've driven them and I'd take the underpowered MX-5 over the WRX any day. It actually handles.
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Sydney
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May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Thu, 01 January 2004 03:07
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Something that no one has mentioned here...
Whilst it's true the local manufacturers are producing vanilla cars, what about the food chain goes before that. Think about PBR that makes the brakes? Bendix for their pads? Walker for their exhaust? Monroe for their shocks? Bosch for their ABS systems? etc etc.. these are local companies that depend on local manufacturers for their continuing purchases from them. These are real jobs in Australia. Sure Toyota can bring on Chasers and more likely kick the ass out of a HSV anyday but what's going to happen to the local suppliers?
It's a double edged sword really... they need to kiss ass to the govt and be seen to be promoting the local industry and get their way in terms of govt funding etc etc (have a look at Mitsubishi and their deal with the govt). Cut all local production in Australia and the govt will go onto them like a ton of bricks.
I'd like to see a run of limited Chasers in Australia under the new import laws. That way you satisfy the people with the $80k that doesn't want to be a flannelette bogan like all of their HSV friends and also satisfy the local suppliers.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Thu, 01 January 2004 04:52
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Toyota deserve 10/10 though for some of their marketing. The Landcruiser snakebite ad is really cool and the RAV4 'Rocky' send up is a classic.
A few years ago there was a toyota ad from europe on one of those Worlds Greatest Commercials shows. I think most peeople here know the one i mean.
About the Sportivo, it's not bad but the one thing about it i cant stomach is the rear wheels look so small and disproportionate in the big guards and fat ass rear end.
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Location:
Brisbane, QLD, Australia
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May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Thu, 01 January 2004 13:12
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| Nark wrote on Thu, 01 January 2004 01:53 |
WRX = Imprezza with bigger engine, drivetrain mods, bodykit
HSV = Commodore with bigger engine, drivetrain mods, bodykit
Sportivo (Corolla) = Corolla with bigger engine, drivetrain mods, bodykit
Where can you not see the similarity? Can you explain to me why a WRX is not a beefed up shopping trolley? Or why it wouldn't be grouped in the same class as the HSV and Sportivo range?
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To a certain extent yes I guess they can be classed the same, but only one is based on a factory rally car for starters.
The list of differences for a WRX STI compared to a base impreza is just too long to mention. The only similarity is the shell. Everything else is different. In the end you get a car that isn't just a bees dick different like the sportivo is, (Camry version. We were talking about large family cars to begin with as it is).
| Quote: |
On one hand you dismiss the 200SX because it's not locally delivered then you say you want a UZZ31?
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Yes that was more a side note that I thought I made clear. It's more for the argument that the image of an Australian "sports car" is way off the mark and the only way to get the car I want is to import it.
Plus I'd never even look at anything nissan anyway as I'm indifferent enough to overlook them. Mostly due to the attitude of most "ful sic" wannabes in their silvias and skylines. I'd also wager and win that enthusiasts that own those cars are sick of that image as well that those others give them.
So there we go. You overlook the WRX because of media hype and they really are a much better car than you think they are, and I overlook nissans because of (some) of the owners.
I think we can agree to disagree. You can live without a wrx and I can live without anything nissan. And mazda? I won't even go there. And since it's now the new year, I don't want to start it off by continuing to fight with you. Next shot is your call.
[Updated on: Thu, 01 January 2004 13:13]
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Melbourne
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November 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Thu, 01 January 2004 14:15
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A 200sx isn't a done up Silvia, its a newer version of the same car. It's like saying a JZA80 is just s done up JZA70.
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
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May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Thu, 01 January 2004 14:27
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| Apollo wrote on Fri, 02 January 2004 00:12 |
To a certain extent yes I guess they can be classed the same, but only one is based on a factory rally car for starters.
The list of differences for a WRX STI compared to a base impreza is just too long to mention. The only similarity is the shell. Everything else is different. In the end you get a car that isn't just a bees dick different like the sportivo is, (Camry version. We were talking about large family cars to begin with as it is).
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I bet you that if you list any changes that a WRX has, you'll find that an HSV will have that change too.
And since when were we talking about STis? With the amount of engineering poured into them, they'd better hope that they can overcome their humble beginnings.
| Apollo wrote on Fri, 02 January 2004 00:12 |
Mostly due to the attitude of most "ful sic" wannabes in their silvias and skylines. I'd also wager and win that enthusiasts that own those cars are sick of that image as well that those others give them.
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You should talk to a WRX owner one day and find out what it's like to drive the same car as half the "fully siik" community. 'Coz it's faster than the cops bro.
| Apollo wrote on Fri, 02 January 2004 00:12 |
So there we go. You overlook the WRX because of media hype and they really are a much better car than you think they are, and I overlook nissans because of (some) of the owners.
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No, I overlook WRXs 'coz I've driven one and driven some of its direct competition (200SX, MX-5, ITR) and it ranks waaaay down the bottom of the list. A sports car is supposed to handle. The WRX..... doesn't.
Have you ever driven a WRX? And I mean driven, hard.
| Apollo wrote on Fri, 02 January 2004 00:12 |
I think we can agree to disagree. You can live without a wrx and I can live without anything nissan. And mazda? I won't even go there. And since it's now the new year, I don't want to start it off by continuing to fight with you. Next shot is your call.
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This is not a fight.
A fight would be much more personal. This is just a healthy argument. Exercise for the brain.
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Location:
Melbourne
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March 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 02:15
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Well going by your philosphy a gtr is just a tarted up skyline, when in actual fact its a completely different car. A ma61 is just a tarted up A6 too.
When in reality they are totaly different, the only things they truely share in comon is the appearance. Just because some cars weren't initialy designed with performance in mind doesn't mean they can't be engineered to have that performance.
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Melbourne
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November 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 02:53
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| Intensevil wrote on Fri, 02 January 2004 13:15 |
Just because some cars weren't initialy designed with performance in mind doesn't mean they can't be engineered to have that performance.
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Isn't that the philosophy of everyone here at toyMODS? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the MOD part stands for Modifications. You (we) take cars and give them more performance by stipping out their "stock" parts and putting in performance parts.
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Central Coast
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July 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 03:06
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[quote title=Apollo wrote on Fri, 02 January 2004 00:12
Plus I'd never even look at anything nissan anyway as I'm indifferent enough to overlook them. Mostly due to the attitude of most "ful sic" wannabes in their silvias and skylines. I'd also wager and win that enthusiasts that own those cars are sick of that image as well that those others give them.
So there we go. You overlook the WRX because of media hype and they really are a much better car than you think they are, and I overlook nissans because of (some) of the owners.[/quote]
From this, I'm guessing that the brand of car your drive is more important that the car itself.
It's like me saying I wouldn't buy a Mitsubishi because there's owners who try to turn base model Lancers into EVO.
Oh no, I think the Pajero is a great car and there's nothing wrong with it....it's just that its a Mitsubishi.....
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Central Coast
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
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October 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 04:05
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Nark: have you seen GTP? The wrx's seem to go pretty well in there. admittedly they are STI's, but as if a base model wrx would keep up with an evo.
The soobies seem to handle pretty well coming into the cutting at around 250kph at Bathurst in November
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Location:
Melbourne
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November 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 04:06
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From what I am seeing here the new Peugeots look more like the good old boxy designs of the early to mid 90s.
They aren't as ugly as some of the shit out there today (the tail end of the MR2, WRX, the overall design of the for KA, I could go on), but I wouldn't call either of those cars the most sexy car in the world *cough JZA80 cough*. In fact, the Altezza shits all over the 406 for looks.
And the engine bay is all covered in plastic. Why is it all covered in plastic? Is there a reason other than to make it hard for you and me to fix/maintain the car?
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Location:
Central Coast
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July 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 04:26
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Unfortunately most modern cars have some plastic covering parts in the engine bay.
I don't believe it serves any real purpose other than cosmetic value. Appears neater as well I guess
I'd rather see a modern car without plastic over the engine though like a Alfa Romeo V6. Now they look sweet
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 09:01
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| Billy-Mason PI wrote on Wed, 31 December 2003 07:51 |
Toyota is the most profitable car maker in the world and
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Actually, that honour belongs to Porsche. Sure the Cayenne seems at odds with their brand values, but I'll be damned if the Turbo version doesn't seem psycho enough to be a good idea Even if it is only for the dumbass Americans
As for a couple of points:
-The Skyline has always been a sedan, they didn't just make up a ugly sedan for the current model.
-The Supra isn't totally dead according to current sources, its just dormant while they work out exactly what they want to do with it. *crosses fingers for a sub-1500kg 3UZFE 6-speed in dead sexy body shell*
-The RX8 is regarded as one of the best handling cars, sure it's lost some of its urge compared to the last RX7, but it also doesn't try to use 25l/100km and choke you to death with emissions in the process. There is actually room in the back if need be
-The 200SX IS basically a revised S13 Silvia with a new body and revised engine and chassis, thats not to say its not a good car
-The new WRX's and STI's are supposed to have come up to scratch with handling, but as Nark said, if you think they aren't souped up four-door grocery getters, you're kidding yourself. Think smaller HSV with more technology.
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Melbourne
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March 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 10:26
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So at what point does modding a car change it completely? What if you change the engine, drive train, brakes, suspension, interiour, exhaust but keep the shell, is that STILL a souped up grocery getter? Or are you not happy untill it is designed from the ground up as a performance car?
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Location:
Brisbane
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July 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 13:09
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I would be happy with an EVO if they brought them over, they are by far my favourite car... yes all the car companies go soft.. we need new supra's... and the new soarer over here too
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 13:29
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| Intensevil wrote on Fri, 02 January 2004 18:26 |
So at what point does modding a car change it completely? What if you change the engine, drive train, brakes, suspension, interiour, exhaust but keep the shell, is that STILL a souped up grocery getter? Or are you not happy untill it is designed from the ground up as a performance car?
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It is a performance car from that point of view, performance. BUT, having said that, it wasn't the primary design purpose, only what it has become.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
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May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 13:31
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| Jag7799 wrote on Fri, 02 January 2004 21:09 |
I would be happy with an EVO if they brought them over, they are by far my favourite car... yes all the car companies go soft.. we need new supra's... and the new soarer over here too
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They are bringing over 100 EVO VIII's to be sold under Ralliart at STI type prices (not $80k for a Lancer) and we do have the new Soarer, it's called the Lexus SC430.
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Melbourne
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November 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 13:32
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Fri, 02 January 2004 20:01 |
Actually, that honour belongs to Porsche...
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Interesting that everyone is clambering to make a family sedan "tourer" to sell well, but the one company that makes real sports cars (and as far as I know, only real sports cars) makes the most money.
| justcallmefrank wrote on Fri, 02 January 2004 20:01 |
As for a couple of points:
-The Skyline has always been a sedan, they didn't just make up a ugly sedan for the current model.
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Yeah, but now it's an ugly sedan again, just like the R31. The R32-34 where fairly sexy (not totally my cup of tea, but still nice).
| justcallmefrank wrote on Fri, 02 January 2004 20:01 |
-The Supra isn't totally dead according to current sources, its just dormant while they work out exactly what they want to do with it. *crosses fingers for a sub-1500kg 3UZFE 6-speed in dead sexy body shell*
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Why would you want a V8 in a Supra? I would want a nice Inline 6. Perhaps a 3JZ-GTE or something? Sub 1500kg would be nice. I never understood where all the weight in the Supra was. I mean, GT-R has about the same fat, but it has HICAS and AWD to add to the weight. I think they hit the nail on the head wit the JZA80 body. There isn't much they could do to that to make it sexier, 'cept perhaps make the front bar more agressive and the spoler a bit more attractive.
| justcallmefrank wrote on Fri, 02 January 2004 20:01 |
-The RX8 is regarded as one of the best handling cars, sure it's lost some of its urge compared to the last RX7, but it also doesn't try to use 25l/100km and choke you to death with emissions in the process. There is actually room in the back if need be
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I saw one at the shops today (for a kids with cancer raffle, got a ticket) and they don't look so bad in real life. I'm not so hot on the engine, but if you could strap a turbo on it that would be nice. Doesn't it redline at something stupid like 9500rpm?
P.S. Saw another Lexus IS200 today. God they are sexy.
[Updated on: Fri, 02 January 2004 13:35]
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 13:37
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| Shraka wrote on Fri, 02 January 2004 21:32 |
Why would you want a V8 in a Supra? I would want a nice Inline 6. Perhaps a 3JZ-GTE or something? Sub 1500kg would be nice. I never understood where all the weight in the Supra was. I mean, GT-R has about the same fat, but it has HICAS and AWD to add to the weight.
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Weight in the Supra was due to the sheer size, and the big brakes, chunky engine etc. Why would I want a V8? Bigger NA engines seem to be the way of the manufacturers, and I'm sure Toyota could coax a reliable 400hp out of a 3UZFE, maybe with a performance orientated head, while still maintaining their reliability and emissions.
As far as I know the RX8 redlines at 9000rpm, but I know it cuts out at 9400rpm.
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I supported Toymods
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Perth
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May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 13:42
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Oh, and you COULD strap a turbo to them, but apparently Mazda is planning to release a supercharged version.
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Location:
Melbourne
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November 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 13:48
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The Supra isn't any bigger than a R33 or R34 is it?
I'm not so sure I like this new love for N/A. I'm rather fond of the turbocharged inline 6 design. But I suppose it could be okay if it was like.. a 3UZ-GE or something... perhaps with a performance 3UZ-GZE option?
Just so long as the body doesn't change to much. Perhaps slightly flared guards (like the racing Supra) a better spoiler and front bar as I said.
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Melbourne
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November 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 13:49
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Sat, 03 January 2004 00:42 |
Oh, and you COULD strap a turbo to them, but apparently Mazda is planning to release a supercharged version.
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Ooooh... Supercharged Rotary... interesting. Could work... could work.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 13:51
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3UZGE is a good idea, not that the FE head is quite as bad as something like a 3SFE
I like the turbo inline six, but from emissions, compactness the V8 has it all over the JZ. It's got it for lightness too.
As for the body styling, similar to the old one, no real wing, keep the pumped rear guards. I see comparisons to the Aston Martin AMV8
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Location:
Melbourne
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November 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 13:59
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| justcallmefrank wrote on Sat, 03 January 2004 00:51 |
3UZGE is a good idea, not that the FE head is quite as bad as something like a 3SFE
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Yeah, not bad, but a sports, or GE is better. I still wanna see a 3UZ-GZE. Mwahahaha.
| justcallmefrank wrote on Sat, 03 January 2004 00:51 |
I like the turbo inline six, but from emissions, compactness the V8 has it all over the JZ. It's got it for lightness too.
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Lightness? Or should I say, weight. Weight? Realy?
| justcallmefrank wrote on Sat, 03 January 2004 00:51 |
As for the body styling, similar to the old one, no real wing, keep the pumped rear guards. I see comparisons to the Aston Martin AMV8
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I like a nice rear wing. But perhaps there should be 2 options? Rear wing and without? And yeah. The JZA80 looks kinda like a Austin Martin or perhaps a Jaguar XK8 or something. Only... the JZA80 is way more sexy that either of those.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 14:07
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Nah, Aston Martin is still dead sexy Lightness comes from the all alloy block of the UZ engines.
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Location:
Melbourne
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November 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Fri, 02 January 2004 14:32
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Isn't an alloy block far less robust?
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Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Sat, 03 January 2004 04:18
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| Quote: |
Aston Martin is still dead sexy
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My Uncle builds/restores these in tassie (prev melb) I always like going to his house for a quick perv on whatever DBx he is working on at the time... mmmm
We need to mail this thread (esp the earlier stuff) to toyota seriously I am so fed up with their whole "whitegoods" approach.
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Location:
tas
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: What do people think of the new Camry Sportivo?
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Sat, 03 January 2004 05:25
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hey anybody seen this prototype Mk5 supra?
could be bullshit or could be real, i just hope they change the whole design, i don't like it much.
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