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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 21:34
 
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Sorry if I have this all wrong (it is a little difficult to judge from the photos), but it appears that both these installs put the mount into a situation where it is reacting the loads by bending. This is definitly not a preforable situation, particularly with aluminium alloys as they are susceptable to fatigue cracking. Even with steel I would avoid this setup. There will be a fair amount of torque transfer through this mount (you do need to get it quicker than a 1G after all  ) so I would err on the conservative side and try and find something stronger/stiffer.
I am not really familiar with the 3S, but could you not leave the mount in the forward location (picking up on the 3or4 bosses in the block) and move the mount on the crossmember? Or am I missing something.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 21:50
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Yeah, but that moves the engine further forward /higher which is certainly not preferable. Joel's mount would flex under torque, as would Cool1s. But Glenns has that stud coming straight from the block which would absorb a majority of the stress, with the other two bolts being there for location purposes (as i understand it)
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 22:05
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Many thanks all for the comments on the engine mount. I'll be putting my first attempt where in belongs in the bin by the sound of it 
So are we thinking Glenn's method is the better? It would mean 3 holes securing the mount by the look of it? One right in the centre and 2 off to the front of the engine.
Anthony, I think the mount would have to move forward quite a long way to pickup on some extra holes. Would need to look more closely at the block to be sure though.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 22:23
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You could make a weird bracket which incorporates two more bolt holes further down (towards cyl4) on the block, as well as the two you are using and the stud which Glenn uses.
Might relieve some torsional pressures upon the plate.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 22:50
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With Glens setup you need to drill and tap the block. This is probably not a backyard job.
With my adaptor plate, we used a medium high tensile steel plate which wont bend unless extremly hot. Also the small plate that is welded to the back of the main plate is an extra meaure to stop any bending as it sits very close to the block acting as a stop.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 22:53
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Ah, i didnt realise that Glenns was a drill and tap the block job. I thought it was a pre-existing bolt hole. In that case i woudl say that putting a stop on the back of the plate which contacts the block is your best bet to remove the strain. Still wont directly remove the strain associated with the rock back on throttle lift off though 
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 23:00
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glenn should probably confrim this but i thought the 3S-GE still had the 4th mounting point on the block and that it was only the GTE that was the trouble.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 23:01
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I just think your over estimating the strain put onto the plate and under estimating the strength of the plate.
Remember that the strain will be half put onto a factory rib of the engine block. The adaptor plate is really just to balance the mount.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 23:02
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| rob_RA40 wrote on Tue, 22 February 2005 09:00 |
glenn should probably confrim this but i thought the 3S-GE still had the 4th mounting point on the block and that it was only the GTE that was the trouble.
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Only the RWD 3S has all the ribs in place. The photos I posted of Glens engine above are of a FWD 3S.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Mon, 21 February 2005 23:04
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Rob, mate you are right the 3s-ge block has some extra bolt holes. But lacks oil squirters. So would need to have those drilled and tapped in. So I think I prefer the idea of mucking around with engine mounts than oil squirters.
Thanks all for these ideas.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 22 February 2005 01:18
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Tue, 22 February 2005 10:04 |
Rob, mate you are right the 3s-ge block has some extra bolt holes. But lacks oil squirters. So would need to have those drilled and tapped in. So I think I prefer the idea of mucking around with engine mounts than oil squirters.
Thanks all for these ideas.
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yeah i only mentioned it to raise glenns eyebrows so he would come in and confirm or not that he didnt get the block tapped.
for your case, bothering to putt in oil squirters on a GE block is more hassle than making an engine mount for sure. 
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 22 February 2005 06:31
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i just drilled it and tapped it put a stud in with loctite and also in the pic i also use the frt 3 holes as well then i bolt the engine mount in use longer bolts for the back 2 cut and make sure they fit,the block nicely then put nuts onto the back of them so the back 2 are bolted up to the alloy plate and the engine mount
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 22 February 2005 23:33
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Thanks for that Glenn. Doesn't sound too hard. Might ask an engineering shop to drill & tap though as knowing me i'd break something.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 01:47
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Joel,
It could be just the MR2T block i used but it had 4 bolt holes for both engine mounts? making the mounts was a pretty simple exercise and to date they haven't given any worries at all. From memory the intake side mount needed some washers to space the plate off the block for one of the holes as it was recessed a little so the plate didn't sit flat but that was the only niggly issue. I have some pics but they aren't as clear as i'd like.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 01:53
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Hey Justen, yeah the ST185 block only has 2 holes for the mount. Sounds like the MR2T would be a lot easier if it already has the 4.
Some pics would be great to compare.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 02:03
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Hey Joel,
I just looked closely at your pics and nope, the blocks are identical. I set my engine waaayyyy back to improve weight distribution (it also very very low for the same reason) so i was able to use the top forward bolt hole you are currently using but then the 3 other bolt holes forward of that...the 2 that are low in the block near the sump and the higher one which i think is used for the alt support bracket on the MR2. You can see that 3 bolt holes are in a different plane, hence the need for the spacers. Worked fine for me but maybe not for you. I can't see any probs offsetting the plate though, just make things a bit chunkier to take the additonal levered load?
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 05:44
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Pretty sure yeah, it was 4 or so years ago i made these  . You could also tie into the bolt hole above there as well if the arm of the mount was looking too long. Alernatively just move the mount on the crossmember to line up. No problem in having the mounts slightly offset.....there's well over 300kw being held in place by my mounts and no issues.
If you ask Jack nicely he'll be able to get you a pic of the actual mount i made if you hink that will help?
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 05:52
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Thanks for that. I might try twisting Jack's arm for some pics.
I've cut/drilled the mounts off the crossmember as they seemed to sit way too high even with no rubber mounts there was 50mm clearance between xmember and sump.
So it's no problem if these need to be positioned in different positions.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 05:54
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No probs.
Seeing you are moving the mounts you should try and get the engine as far back and as low as you can...pays big dividends in handling down the track.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 06:02
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Yeah that is definately the plan. SO did you not use the 2S engine mount on the inlet side?
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 06:06
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I made both my mounts from scratch so i didn't have to make any compromise on where the engine sat...it was to the mm exactly where i wanted it. The part of the mount on the x member was standard TA22, although relocated, as were the rubber sandwich plate between the two halves of the mounts.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 06:07
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Ahh ok cool. 101 ways to skin a cat it seems
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Location:
nth ringwood, Victoria
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 06:16
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i also use st141 xmember mounts and welded to the ta23 xmember also if you look at my engine mounts they have had 50mm cut off in the middle and welded back together ,also the engine leans 20mm to the right off level so the sump is level at the bottom
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 06:27
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Hey Glenn do you have any more pics? You can email them to joel_fitzgerald@hotmail.com if no where to host them.
Thanks
Joel
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 06:33
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yup, at least 101 Like anything really...... get 10 modders on a proj and there'll be 10 different views on how it should be done. Often there's no right way, just as long as it does what you planned it should do.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 10:06
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Heres some more pictures of Glens mounts:
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 21:38
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Not sure i like the drilling and tapping of the block? Are there blank bolt hole lugs there? That's creating a real stress point for cracks to form. You would be surpised how much a block can deform.
The 3S block is tough but it's a highly strung thing. You just have to lift one to see how light they are. Bate's has cracked a few on 1 bar and normal revs in competition use. I recall there are some untapped lugs on the block and drilling and tapping these should be sweet, just drilling and tapping the bare block or even a rib is definitely no go.
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I supported Toymods
Banned User
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 23:16
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Yep he just tapped a bank lug point.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 23 February 2005 23:24
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I want a bank that i can put a tap on, maybe it will give me lots of money.
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Location:
VIC, Sth Frankston.
Registered:
July 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 24 February 2005 01:20
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Is Glen's method legal in the eye of an engineer?
I've wussed out, i've bought me a 3sge block, gonna try and put the oil squirters in 
James
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 24 February 2005 03:01
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Might end up being easier!
Thanks all for comments & pictures etc.
I'll hopefully get some time this weekend to revise my mount and come up with something new based on all this info.
Really want to get it to the point of being able to sit it in the engine bay.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 24 February 2005 03:36
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A mate of mine Damian sent me some pics of a AE86 with a RWD 3S-GTE setup. Just thought i'd share the pic with all.
I have a few more if people are interested.
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 24 February 2005 03:56
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Whatch your fingers 
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 24 February 2005 04:06
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Small children/animals also!
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 24 February 2005 05:41
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That car is using quad throttles too, and the engine is leaning the opposite way to what it should.
Definately interested in more pictures Joel.
Any details on the engine at all?
Gabe
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 24 February 2005 06:11
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Gabe I got a few, want to give me an email address and i'll forward em?
This guy is from the US, and supposedly makes a 'rwd kit' for the 3sgte including inlet manifold, turbo manifold, all other bits n pieces. I haven't been talking to him personally. Just second hand info from Damian (Logic? I think on these forums).
Hey Gabe by the way, what have you done with your inlet side engine mount?
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
barbados
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 24 February 2005 06:18
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yeah guys that is where i got the idea for the quads
joel post the rest of the pics i set you !!!!
there is a kit this guy sells i will copy and past it
here it is
Parts needed for the conversion of 3SGT engine to an AE86 Chassis:
Belllhousing
Oil pan
oil pick up
water outlet from the back of the motor
motor mount brackets
transmission cross-member
driveshaft
W55 transmission or W58
intake manifold
Turbo manifold or headers
Exhaust Downpipe
starter
Distributor relocation or direct ignition system
Those are the parts needed but is this AE86 going to be fuel injected or carbureted.
If it is fuel injected specify what ECU will be used. Stock Toyota 3SGTE computer or Full stand alone with DIS(Direct ignition system).
Please let us know who we're dealing with and where in Barbado's so we can research on the shipping and handling as well.
Thank you,
Manager of Sales
Danstoy
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 24 February 2005 06:21
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Thu, 24 February 2005 14:11 |
Gabe I got a few, want to give me an email address and i'll forward em?
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Cheers mate my address is gabe@scada.com.au
I'll shoot you a few pictures of my inlet side mount in a bit. Just gotta find them  .
Gabe
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Location:
barbados
Registered:
December 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 24 February 2005 06:24
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here is the kit that is avalible and the price
Dear Damian,
We are selling the kit for $1600.00
This includes the Drive shaft, throwout bearing, slave cylinder, bellhousing, motormounts, Transmission crossmember, water outlet, Aluminum oil pan with oil return line for the turbo, oil pickup, clutchfork.
If you have anymore questions regarding parts, please feel free to ask us.
The custom valve cover will cost 250$ extra. You can decide on the color you want, if it is going to be poweder coated, wrinkle paint, polished, or regular paint.
Thank you,
Manager of Sales,
Danstoy
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Location:
western queensland
Registered:
September 2004
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Tue, 01 March 2005 10:59
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| ViPeR_NiPPleX wrote on Thu, 24 February 2005 12:20 |
Is Glen's method legal in the eye of an engineer?
I've wussed out, i've bought me a 3sge block, gonna try and put the oil squirters in
James
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careful with drilling these as you need two holes for each squirter, one to tap into the oil gallery and one to put a thread in to hold it, the trick is to get these pefectly parallel. i had it done at the machine shop that did the boring and balancing. cost $150
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 02 March 2005 08:24
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Quick update..
The water outlet is almost finished. I just need to add a T piece off the main outlet to the radiator that runs back to the water pump/thermostat.
The barb hose tail fitting will be the water for the turbo.
I'm going to use the oil cooler bypass hose from the inlet side of the block for the heater as i'm not using the factory oil cooler setup anymore (will be external oil filter & cooler).
I've almost finished a revised version of my inlet side engine mount. Its quite chunky 6mm steel that goes over 3 holes around the center of the block and the 1 hole up the back where my alloy one went to. So covers 4 holes. Then the 2S mount bolts through this into 2 of the holes in the centre of the block and is welded to the plate to support the other side. I'll post pics when its finished soon.
The xmember is totally stripped now of engine mounts. I've got it at the shop to have a plate welded to hold the rack & pinion. I have made a few changes now to my current setup. The rack sits closer to the xmember which should help with the ackerman angles. Also there is some extra gussets to strengthen it all up.
I hope this is finished next week so the engine can finally get put in the bay.
Been discussing with a few people if extra oil drains should be added in the head. Sounds like this is a must. Or have you run a very large sump to hold heaps more oil. Whats everyone think?
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Madrid - Spain
Registered:
August 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 02 March 2005 21:01
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Would it be worth putting a bead on the end of that hose fitting.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 02 March 2005 22:05
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On the large one? Yeah definately.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 02 March 2005 23:23
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I ran a 5lt sump Joel. Larger would be better but for other reasons than oil staying in the head. Have a look at the head yourself...there's bugger all dead area, all returns just fine and any oil that stays up there only needs to be accounted for once.
extra oil drains and as large a sump as you can get will be beneficial but far from necessary.
Just a note on your steering rack....have you measured bump steer etc. If not i wouldn'nt be doing any final welding. You'll find even moving the steering rod end location points 1mm in any direction can have significant effects on bump steering. Took us a solid 20 hrs to get the steering responding as we wanted it to. Well worth the effort as now the specs are much better than a stock GT4.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 02 March 2005 23:43
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Thanks for that info. So did you mount the engine perfectly flat, or a slight tilt to one side?
Sump mods are going to have to be done regardless so might as well increase the size at the same time.
With the rack & pinion, i'm already running that in the RA28 and have spent countless hours and changes trying to get it right (which it finally is!). Gotta hand it to Gold28 for his help with eliminating the bump steer.
So I am basically copying all measurements of that. Except moving the rack closer to the xmember, but actually come to think of it that will slightly alter the steering arm lengths so yeah good idea i'll do some bump steer measurements before the final welds are made.
Cheers
Joel
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Wed, 02 March 2005 23:50
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My setup was dead vertical...never even looked like having oiling issues. I ran a large oil cooler as well so total oil capacity was probably a shade over 6 litres. I spent alot of time thinking about the sump baffling and the setup i went with eventaully was to put my own much smaller screen on the pickup and have the pickup at the intersection of 4 baffles so the sump is effectively divided into 4 compartments. That way no matter where the g forces are forcing the oil it must pass the oil pick to move between compartments. Oil pressure was rock solid during hard cornering on the street so i reckon it was working well....never got to the track to test under more extreme conditions thoigh.
Good to hear the time you put into the rack. Moving the rack up will change things so either don't do it if you don't have to or like you say, remeasure and be prepared for some more modding to get steering specs right again
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 March 2005 00:00
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| TurboRA28 wrote on Wed, 02 March 2005 19:24 |
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THATS A NICE WELD!
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 March 2005 00:01
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With those 4 baffles, did they have holes to let oil through? or trap doors?
I've just been hearing some stories lately about rwd 3s engines killing big ends and stuff because of oiling issues. So want to get things right in this department.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 March 2005 00:02
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TIG always looks sexy....have a look at a TIG fusion weld
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 March 2005 00:04
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Yeah I would love to accept responsibility for those welds.. but cannot..
I am very impressed with the guy I use for welding/fabricating stuff. Charges me bugger all also for the work.
Those welds are TIG.
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Location:
Canberra
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 March 2005 00:07
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They had a small gap...approx 2mm along the bottom to allow oil levels to equilibrate between the chambers under steady state. As the stock oil pickup sits pretty central all the chambers are of equal size. Have a look at te sump pic i sent you and you can just make out what i did
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Location:
Melbourne
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 March 2005 00:08
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must... get... TIG... ARRRGGG
...heads off the BOC to get another bottle of argon and stainless steel wire
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 March 2005 01:44
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When I made my sump, I was going to utilise 4 door hinges mounted in a square around the pickup.
Arranged in a fashion that only allowed oil to flow towards the pickup.
The hinges acted like one way valves in a way.
I ended up cutting a piece of 4" tube and a piece of 5" tube, and drilled 2 20mm holes on either side of each piece of tube. The 4" tube is welded to the bottom of the sump, around the pickup and the 5" tube is welded around the 4" tube.
I rotated the inner piece so the holes on the 2 pieces of tube didn't line up, just to make a more restrictive path for the oil to take.
I can provide pictures if you want.
Gabe
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 March 2005 01:52
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Pics would be great thanks
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Location:
Perth
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 March 2005 09:14
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Joel you SHOULD have mail....
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 March 2005 10:42
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I did thanks, that is a very nice sump!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 March 2005 11:05
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Can you put pics up. I wouldnt mind seeing it.
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Location:
Terrigal
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: Joel's RWD 3S-GTE conversion - mainly pics
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Thu, 03 March 2005 21:55
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Gabe's sump :
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