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Location:
Hornsby, N.S.W
Registered:
September 2002
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 3t crank into 2tg
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Sat, 03 May 2003 04:02
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just wanna make sure before i go ahead and do it, is it just a matter of bolting it in, or do i have to modify/change anything???
thanks
justin 
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Location:
MACKAY
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Fl
Registered:
February 2003
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Sat, 03 May 2003 22:56
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I have heard the same thing also heard that the 2tg block has better crankshaft geometry than the 3t block. a shop in N.O. La. used to run their corolla at the local strip with a 2tc motor that had a 2t block with 3t internals the car ran consistant high 9's low 10's in the quarter.
Greg
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Sun, 04 May 2003 00:56
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i was talking to an motor engineer, he said he recently did a 2tg/3t hybrid, LOTS of work he reckoned, but i dunno which block he used as some may require notches to be cut for crank counter weights some may not, well worth it he said tho.
the one he made DID needed notches cut, among other things i cant remember, he rattled off about 6 or 7 things
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Location:
Brisbane QLD
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Sun, 04 May 2003 04:01
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just a question about 2TG's, I've seen pics of them and they have the number 1600 and toyota printed on the top where my 2tg does not have the 1600 on the top. was this normal for some model 2tg's or could this be a diff engine or modified to fit the engine?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Sun, 04 May 2003 06:00
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OK then I have done this conversion. The conversion itself is very straight forward assuming you have the correct engine.
As one of the others said there is a difference between early and late 2tg engines. The difference is this the early engine that is marked as a 2TG and came with the twin solex carbs is a celica 2T block with the twin cam Yamaha head on it on this engine the 3T crank will hit on the inside webbing of the block because the counter weights are a lot bigger than on the 2T crank. The later engine which is marked as a 2TG-EU that came with factory EFI and Electronic ignition is actually the same block as used on the T-18 3T motor, so if you have this engine then the 3T crank will literally bolt straight into the engine.
Having said this as the other guy said there is not enough clearance between the pistons and the valves using the standard cams and timing and the do hit together as i found out when I bolted mine together. So you can either use after market pistons that are reccesd to suit the valves or you can get the standard pistons machined for clearance or if you are on a tight budget like I was you can change the position of the drive dowel in the drive sprocket of the exhaust cam so that the exhaust valves close marginally sooner which should give you enough of a chance to make them clear the pistons. When I did this it worked and the power reduction was insignificant compared to the power increase from doing the 3T conversion if you need any more help email me at chris108@optusnet.com.au
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Sun, 04 May 2003 06:03
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Another thing if you buy Hot 4s magazine there is a guy who advertises in ther he is based in melbourne he specializes in part just for imported toyota motors he has in stock pistons that have enough clearance for doing this conversion
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 05 May 2003 06:55
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ok most of it has been covered.
CTZen,
The 2TG's with 1600 on the top are the very first of the Early 2TG's the rocker cover's varied alot with the later 2TG's and 2TGEU's.
The guy in Melbourne is Sean Malony. The guy in Sydney to speak to Graham Wilkins - 02 9624 6019
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Wed, 07 May 2003 03:15
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Hey EVLT-18, So your saying all you need is the 3t crank and that's it (besides consumables like bearings, etc)? So you used the original 2t pistons you had, right?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
April 2003
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 Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Wed, 07 May 2003 10:45
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If you are doing it on the cheap you will need to use the 3T pistons aswell because they are shorter than the 2T pistons the rods dont matter they are the same. My sugestion would be if you want the thing to last for a long time then I suggest you get a set of new pistons so that you can get ones that have enough clearance for the valves and so that the piston to bore clearance will be correct. I used the standard 3T pistons in the standard bores and after about a year it started to get a piston rattle now after 3 years it has died completely and needs new pistons you will end up with a compresion ratio of about 9.75:1 so you will have to run it on hi octane unleaded.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 02:36
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Just stiring the pot;
I was looking at my pics and came across some pics of the original 2TGEU's. You can see the difference between the older motor and the newer one with the common block.
Older:
http://www.geocities.com/hks7mgt/2TG.jpg
and newer ones:
http://www.geocities.com/hks7mgt/2TGEU.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/hks7mgt/2TGEU_2.jpg
And i just noticed there are even differences with the two newer motors. They are the oil cap on different sides, and the label on top is 'Toyota' on the first and 'Toyota DOHC'on the other. Also the last pic has a braket supporting the efi manifold and the fittings on the rocker cover to hold the bracket. I'm pretty sure the last pic is one of the last motors made.
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 03:11
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Well you seem to know a lot about the differences; tell me what it means if the 11111-88*** number is not enscribed on the yamaha head? And what differences are there between the DOHC with raised edges motor and the motor without the raised edges?
Do you know which come out before the other?
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 03:51
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The last of the 2TGEU's is beleived to be the 11111-88262 Head.
It has the Non raised edges on the "DOHC". It was a low compression head and had a completely different combustion chamber design to the other models. Speculation suggests it to be the worst head for N/A performance due to is Inability to accept Domed Pistons (hence raising the compression ratio)
There are two types of 2TG head without any casting numbers that I am aware of. The first is the early 2TG head, The pre-production TRD race engines were not numbered.
The other type is the 11111-88262 head. It is not marked on the casting anywhere. The number can however be found on the cam itself as the second half of the cams part number. ie xxxxx-88262
Hope that helps.
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 04:19
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Well how do you descibe this? I have a head with no numbers on front, and was told it must be one of the last builds as they did that. But from what your saying, (DOHC edges are flat), well mine are the same as the toyota label (unless i'm missing your description of the different edges).
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 04:31
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Well the top of my motor is the same as the red top one you posted and the front is the same as that other link with the black rocker cover. So going on from what you said, there were two types of these numberless motors and one you mentioned was a TRD pre-production version. (Dumb terms now), when you say pre production, you mean pre 1971 or when ever the first 2tg was made and you are referring to the carby motor only right?
I love find out historical stuff!
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 04:37
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Yep the pre production TRD engine were Carby only and had this rocker cover (The 88220 rocker cover)
If your has the rocker cover shown previously (the red one) and has no casting numbers if an incredibly safe bet to say it is an 88262 head. To tell for sure you can look at the cam numbers and/or look at the combustion chambers.
Don;t forget these engines are getting old so parts can be mixed and matched but there is not much likelyhood of anyone removing a casting number on the head !
Is the engine in your car or still out on its own ??
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 04:37
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Hold on, i was told (or read) the TRD motors still had the 11111- bit but the other part (more commonly known as 8826x) had dashes or was blank like "1111- ". So mine must be a 88262 head. So if this is the case, are these motors like the ones you were discribing as low compression anda different combustion design? Was this the design where one of the bores was on a different offset from the others?
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 04:40
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I have read both re the TRD race heads, some reports say no numbers at all others say they had "11111-".
The bores on your 88262 should be the same as any other T series block the combustion chambers however are indeed an "offcentre" type design for want of a better way to say it.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 04:55
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Okay, so if i'm left with the unfortunate offset combustion motor (doh!), would this harm the performace of the motor? If so, how?
I mean i dyno'd it at 55rwkw on the crappy solex's (not even jetted to suit) and it still revs clean, not as quick as i like it (maybe due to low compression), but it does lump away on idle and when the revs are up, it holds them and is quite responsive too.
i'm in the process of planned mods to up the power. Would this offset design disadvantage the setup in any way? And in your experience, is the crank different in these compared to the conventional motors?
Thanks for help me out 'thetoyman75'!
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 05:18
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I really haven't done much research into the 88262 head. The offset combustion chamber will limit your ability to increase the compression but otherwise its still a 2TG. I have not looked into the port flow or design yet.
55RWKW is a good result from a stock 2TG so it really depends on what you plan to do with the engine. The head BTW requires special shaped pistons (on the top only) so if you decide to change the head for a 88260 or 88261 item you will need to change the pistons as well.
I thought I had my hands on an 88262 head last week actually but the importer that had it thru it out when he relised it had the offset chambers 
So my answer would be yes it will limit the power you can get out of it I hate to say. But this being a problem depends on how much power you were looking to get ! In a N/a engine you ideally want a healthy compression, this head prevents that.
No idea for sure on the crank but I see no reason why it would be any different. The block should easilt take the 3T Crank without machining tho and the Rods should be fine for all but the biggest N/A builds.
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 05:53
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Is there any other way of telling the difference between these two motors? Like is there an offset in the rocker cover or anything else.
The motor was rebuilt not too long ago and i dont recall an offset. If it did, it wouldn't have been something me or my mechanic would have forgotten.
So, if the combustion side is different, then the head must be made to suit, right? So virtually if this is the case, then the whole motor is a dud(if my motor is the one with the offset!).
I'm still confident to say it's not and if that's true, would it make sense? I mean a 11111-88262 motor with no label's having the proper design combustion?
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 11:27
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Dude, 88262 head or not the engine is not a Dud ! Just an unknown in a few areas that all.
The Offset combustion chamber is its only limitation as far as Compression goes. It may well be that in stock form the low lift head flow is better I dunno ? I am still trying to get my hands on one so I can flow bench it !
The "Normal" combustion chambers are a Hemispherical design. They are just hollow domes. Your 88262 Head does not have this hollow domed shape. On one side it has a raised squish area type section. This is what causes the offset. The bore and chamber perimiters themselves are in the smae location as any other T series engine.
In your favour you have a late model Crank Rods and block which is a good thing in anyones language.
When you had the engine rebuilt did you put in new pistons ?? and was the combustion chamber cc'd ?
As for it having no markings, that rocker and NOT being an 88262 head ? I doubt it sorry But it is possible.
Oh and a correction on the rocker covers above (I will edit that post) The 88260 rocker cover was the same as the 88222 in that it had toyota on the Left hand side only (No 1600 as the EGR valve mounts there on the carby version and the EFI manifold mounts there on the 2TGEU)
Hope that helps mate !
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 11:57
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Shit, your right! My pistons were raised on the one side and we scratched our heads and thought why, but just left it at that. Yeah, the motor is still using the orig piston's, but has all new rings, bearings, honed bores, etc. When we pulled the motor down it still had the original head gasket on it.
Thats a relief! I was hoping to use this motor for future upgrades. The reason why i was talking about the offset in on the bores, was i saw a picture and an small write up about the evolution of the 2TG/EU motor and it showed a block with three in-line bores and one offset. That's what i thought you meant, but i was pretty sure it wasn't. Just misunderstanding! 
Have you heard of this before?
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Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 12:12
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Haven't heard of the offset bores at all ! Not even the 4TGTE or the 16Valve 2TG's had that ! ???
Glad its all sorted for you
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Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 3t crank into 2tg
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Mon, 12 May 2003 12:24
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Yeah, thanks for your input on the subject. I'll dig up my archives and see if i have that pic/or the article.
Speaking of 16v 2TG's, where can i find out more about them? I was told they are a gear driven motor and are as rare as rocking horse shit. There's one aparently in Adelaide (no chance i'll see it though nor any one else). It's sitting in a shed somewhere gathering dust for many years, maybe awaiting the right restoration in as many years to come. There's dib's already on it, so wont even try!
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