| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
W.A.
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Tue, 27 May 2003 22:34
|
 |
Hey peeps! I have a 1983 sprinter and I was thinking of chucking in the 4agze but ive got not enough cash. Ive heard of this being done in japan before but im not sure how it works and how well it would work. I like how my sprinter handles but the 4AC just doesn't do it I want something more responsive but it's main purpose is not to go in a straight line.
I have about 3k to spend, Im not sure if it is enough but I was thinking of buying the 86kw RWD 4AGE (engine only) slot it into my engine bay cut and weld off the throttle body and put in twin carby's.
Does anyone know what kinda carbies I can use and how good are they? Also how do i exactly tune them? It would be my daily driver and I would like something with a linear power band.
Any ideas would be great!!  Cheers!
|
|
|
Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Wed, 28 May 2003 12:04
|
|
The carb conversions I've seen on the 4age have been twin weber setups. They can work quite well but don't provide any advantage over the standard EFI and are pretty expensive.
3 grand should be enough to buy a half cut 4age or 4agze with everything you need, installation cost depends on whether you do it yourself or not.
If you want to check out how a 4agze Sprinter goes, we can arrange to meet.
There's a Sprinter club in Perth with a range of cars with various mods and a bunch of dudes that can help.
Check out http://www.geocities.com/PERTH_AE86/
|
|
|
Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
 Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 29 May 2003 02:01
|
|
Webbers on a 4AGE are not a bad idea depending on what your doing with it. This is my old set up !
BUT First you need to check the legal side of things, My car passed emmisions no worries as it is a 1973 modle as a 1983 Model you may not meet the requirements once you remove the EFI.
But if you do... A nice pair of 45mm webers does sound awesome
|
|
|
Location:
W.A.
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 29 May 2003 02:33
|
|
hey blown86 just checked out the webpage! Didnt know that there was ab AE86 club here in perth! Hah and u guys have got quite a few cars! Yea I wouldn't mind meeting up anytime! Where abouts u live? Im down south.
About the carbies, whao! that is a nice setup, how much did that setup cost you exluding the extractors. How much power did the 4AGE make after putting on the twin carbs?
Alvin
|
|
|
Location:
Mexico
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 29 May 2003 02:39
|
|
I think with twin carbs you do pick up a quicker throttle response when your driving hard due to having basicly 4 throttle body's and injection systems, and ofcourse there is the sound  .
That's a bloody sweet ride thetoyman .... pity about it not being an ae86 though  how long did it that you to get it to that ?
|
|
|
Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 29 May 2003 03:18
|
|
| GTStar wrote on Thu, 29 May 2003 10:33 |
hey blown86 just checked out the webpage! Didnt know that there was ab AE86 club here in perth! Hah and u guys have got quite a few cars! Yea I wouldn't mind meeting up anytime! Where abouts u live? Im down south.
Alvin
|
Yeah the club's pretty low key but slowly more people are hearing about it.
There should be a meeting in the next couple of weeks or so, keep an eye on the forum.
I'm near Freo so you can't be too far away.
|
|
|
Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 29 May 2003 04:17
|
|
Widommaker,
Mate to be perfectly Honest I can take very little credit for the engine bay in that pic. 95% of what you see there was done by the cars previous owner.
Thats the pic they used in the HOT 4's article. By the time the Article came out that engine was out of the car and dissasembled due to a spun bearing and my inherant dislike for the 4AGE.
Theres a 2TG in there now, bastard just doesn't go yet ! BUT personal preferences asside I must say the old 4AGE on Carbies was more responsive than any eqivalent 4AGE on Stock EFI i have driven (And you gotta love the lack of a rev limiter  )
|
|
|
Location:
W.A.
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 29 May 2003 05:43
|
|
blown86 - yea ill definately be there for the cruise, ive only had my car for 2 months and was unlicenced previously when i bought it and it looked like a bucket of shit. Still in the process of building it up, looking for a set of wheels now know anyone who's selling their 15" ? I would only have enough money for an engine swap prob end of this year.
toyman, just a question, would there be any chance that you would still have the carbies with you ? hehe ? of even the extractors I wouldn't mind buying it off ya...
I would think that the 4AGE twin carb setup would pump out more power if tuned properly cause it has a 2 induction 'pathways' instead of one. Cause i went to the drags last week and saw a 1970s fiat with a 1.6 twin webber keep up with a EK civic with a b18C setup ... now thats insprational! BTW did you run the quarter with ure old setup ?
|
|
|
Location:
Melb
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 29 May 2003 06:13
|
|
give c2888 a pm if he don't see this thread
i think he posted up pics in a thread somewhere recently as well
i think the thread was about the dodgey double swaybar mod?
|
|
|
Location:
Mexico
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
|
Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 29 May 2003 10:36
|
|
Damn Rod I forgot how sweet she used to look!!!
you better hurry up...at this rate Ill have the new G in before you crank the T
getting there slowly
|
|
|
Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Fri, 30 May 2003 00:17
|
|
Michael,
That is looking sweet dude !
Chances are you will beat me dude, a lack of garage space to play in has added to the contributing factors but hey it will get there.... Eventually.
|
|
|
Location:
W.A.
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Fri, 30 May 2003 05:07
|
|
hey toyman, the one in the pics are they twin carbs ?
How do you exactly set up the 4AGE for carby ? Just trying to learn more about it..
thanks
|
|
|
Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Fri, 30 May 2003 05:42
|
|
GTStar,
Dude, there really is not that much too it. Obviously you need the manifold and twin carbies, in conjunction with these goes some minor changes to your accelerator cable set up.
Your injector holes in the head need to be blanked off and the Dizzy will need some attention. My first 4AGE ran a Scorcher electronic ignition kit in the Dizzy, can't remeber what was on that one ?? (Micheal ??)
After that mate just a fuel pressure regulator and a good fuel pump.
1RA11Y should be able to give you some good pointers as well
|
|
|
Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Fri, 30 May 2003 08:19
|
|
Not really sure about how that dizzy works yet?? havent had a chance to crack it open (and not sure I really want to!!!)
with the carbs youll also need some linkages and if youre using solexs youll need to cut the middle throttle pivot arm so it can move past the manifold to WOT
as rod pointed out you will also need plugs for the injector holes, I got a set of alloy ones made up for $50 which are a press fit so the holes arent damaged and I can always revert back to injection if I want.
If you want to go aftermarket computer you could just use the factory dizzy, in fact ive also heard that you can use the stock ecu to power the ignition only but I havent had a chance to prove that yet.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
|
Location:
W.A.
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Sat, 31 May 2003 05:59
|
|
hey guys thanks for the info. Rally you said that i can use the stock ECU to power the ignition, I thought carburettor'ed cars done run a computer? Also about the fuel pump, do I have to get an additional fuel pump or surge tank for my sprinter or can I use the original one since the 4AC is carby aswell.
Also if i do buy a pair of DCOE webbers do any of them fit or do certain models fit only? What about the manifold do I have to get it done myself ??
these questions may sould abit silly but just trying to understand how all these work.
BTW can I use the standard 4AGE distributor without mods?
|
|
|
Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Sat, 31 May 2003 06:51
|
|
| Quote: |
thought carburettor'ed cars done run a computer?
|
some modern engines do but in general they dont, I was referring to running the ignition only off the ecu
| Quote: |
Also about the fuel pump, do I have to get an additional fuel pump or surge tank for my sprinter or can I use the original one since the 4AC is carby aswell.
|
It is unlikely that you will be able to adapt the 4AC pump to the GE head, best and easiest isd to buy a low pressure fuel pump, the ones out of the old Stanzas arent too bad and fairly cheap
| Quote: |
Also if i do buy a pair of DCOE webbers do any of them fit or do certain models fit only?
|
most sidedrafts have the same stud pattern
| Quote: |
What about the manifold do I have to get it done myself
|
you can buy manifold from redline to suit the 100Kw and 86Kw for about $250
| Quote: |
BTW can I use the standard 4AGE distributor without mods?
|
see the answer to youre first question
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
|
Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Sun, 01 June 2003 04:17
|
|
| Quote: |
ECU expects MAP and TPS, TPS wouldn't be a problem with carbs, but MAP would (unless you built a plenum to run the carbs off?)
so no, you can't use a std 4AG dizzy to run with carbs
|
MAP has nothing to do with it really as youre only running the ignition side, what you can do to help (instead of running the TPS as WOT for maximum map} is to make the TPS trigger via the carby linkage, but its not really neccesary but will help with the progressive electronic mapping... so contrary to opinion you can use the factory dizzy, people are allready doing it in the states
|
|
|
Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Mon, 02 June 2003 02:58
|
|
well I can tell you from current experience that the 100Kw ecu does NOT work for an ignition only computer. I have a 4AG with 4 mikuni carbies on it and the ignition wont advance. I am trying to run the ecu from factory. but the ignition and fuel map in the 4a computers are linked.. THEREFORE anyone out they that ups the ignition on their 4AGE will be running richer fuel maps aswell. I think it has a lot to do with map sensors AFMs and everything to do with the TPS. <---(remembering the ignition advances with RPM)
so now Im looking for an ignition setup to run my car that Im trying to sell.. Pictures below.
fookseung.fotki.com/automotive-1/red_rocket/
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
south of the big smoke
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Mon, 02 June 2003 05:33
|
|
| thetoyman75 wrote on Thu, 29 May 2003 14:17 |
And you gotta love the lack of a rev limiter
|
and not to mention the size of the cams ya can put in there!!
|
|
|
Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Mon, 02 June 2003 10:37
|
|
| Quote: |
well I can tell you from current experience that the 100Kw ecu does NOT work for an ignition only computer
|
hmm interesting... exactly what sensors did you connect and what did you leave off?? the guys in the states that i have talked to all use the TVIS ecu but i wouldnt have tought there would be much in it.
did you still connect the knock and temp sensors???
|
|
|
Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Wed, 04 June 2003 04:58
|
|
yes the temp sensor was connected.. I hear it is because of the Map sensor. I didnt connect that cause I dont have a manifold..
anyway I have a solution to alls problems.
use the early model distributor off the 4AGE 86KW with the 4 star wheel in the top. If you look carefully at a 4A-C distributor it has a little silver casing attached to the side just next to the dizzy cap. take off the silver cover and there is a module.
Items:
1 4A-C module
1 4A-GE 86KW dizzy
1 Coil (even 100KW coil)
I will have more on the installation when I install the module. it has 4 connectors and Im not sure which ones go where.
(2 for pickup and 2 for coil)
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 05 June 2003 02:15
|
|
|
like i put in the other post. no vac advance...
|
|
|
Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 05 June 2003 06:15
|
|
|
I cant see ANY advance at all in that setup... you would still need an aftermarket ignition kit which means you wouldnt need anything other than the factory dizzy anyhow.?
|
|
|
Location:
Perth
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 05 June 2003 06:19
|
|
|
I don't understand why anyone would go to all this trouble and retro-tech a 4age by 20 years when the only real advantage is the rev limiter is removed.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 05 June 2003 08:45
|
|
ira11y, thinking about it, you're spot on...
blown86, horses for courses dude.
FYi - the 4AC dizzy will fit in the same spot. the dizzy mount where the bolt lives will need die grinding a wee bit and the shaft on the 4AC dizzy is 9mm too long. by looks of it an early type 4age dizzy end gear will fit the 4ac dizzy and work beaut.
i'll let you know how it goes...
|
|
|
Location:
W.A.
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 05 June 2003 17:42
|
|
wow...information overload will try to digest everything here Still waiting for some cash to come through then the $AGE will be in! Drove a sprinter with a standard 4AGE the other day ... omg it's really really smooth! I mean compared to my 4AC hehe
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Thu, 05 June 2003 22:47
|
|
only downside is the 4AC dizzy is a kettering style so not electronic BUT i do have a few other bits which i might be able to rig something up.....see how we go.
i'll post up what i do, pix, ect to get the bugger workin!
|
|
|
Club Member
Location:
sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Fri, 06 June 2003 07:18
|
|
|
some FWD 4AC dizzys are electronic maybe one of those could be adapted?
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Sat, 07 June 2003 00:43
|
|
|
good point actually dude good point indeed. the guts of one of the older 4KE dizzys which are electronic are also rumoured to fit too....
|
|
|
Location:
W.A.
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Sun, 08 June 2003 08:34
|
|
hey this is kinda of a silly question but there's a dude on ebay selling lotsa Holley carbs just wondering if it'll fit the 4AC and if it is what is required cause the 4AC is already carby not like im going to do it but was just kinda wondering
also what does CFM mean ?? like it says Holley Carby 650 CFM or 750 CFM ?
There's also a Weber 40 MM DCOE for sale would it fit the 4 AC or do i actually need a pair for it to work?
What kinda performance would i get ??
Thanks dudes!
|
|
|
Club President
I supported Toymods
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Sun, 08 June 2003 15:16
|
|
If I am not mistaken the modifed Dizzy set up that was on my Carby fed 4AGE is still sitting in a certain shed somewhere not being used. (I pissed off all my 4AGE stuff as soon as I could lol)
I recon for the right offer its owner (who is aware of this thread) might be willing to part with it ???
I vaguely remember being told it was a moddified Scorpian set up and I know it cost almost $500 when purchsed. Performed awesome tho both on the street and on the Dyno.
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
|
Location:
W.A.
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Mon, 09 June 2003 10:56
|
|
hey grega...thanks for the tips
yea the 4AC really does suck drove a ae92 with the 4AFC geez it revs up easily so much better than my single cammer!
i know this sounds silly but has anyone thought of a 4EFTE into an AE86 i mean yea it's a 1.3 but it's possible to boost it up eh dont u think? I mean traction problem would be less severe than the FWD starlet right ?
I dont know .. maybe i should start a new thread for this?
|
|
|
I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne.victoria.austra...
Registered:
June 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Mon, 09 June 2003 20:08
|
|
|
a 4efte would not be worth it when a 4age goes in its place and no mods necessary to engine mounts ect!
|
|
|
Location:
Central Coast, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 4AC to 4AGE Carby Swap - Anyone ?
|
Tue, 10 June 2003 01:09
|
|
|
That rights this setuip doesnt have a vac advance because you dont need one.. I know lots of people who have or are using setups with fixed ignition. This is the cheapest and easiest setup for a efi to carby setup on any car.. It just want like starting in the morning. Fine by me. What do you really need advance for anyways besides smooth start up. After 1800 - 2000 RPM ish its fixed pritty much anyway.
|
|
|
