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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Mon, 02 June 2003 11:51
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Hey,
the other day we got the motor running finally and to my dismay the timing chain grew extremely noisey, and the motor just died after a few minutes. the timing chain had about 10mm of slack in it around the cam gears. we got the head off it today and found i need 4 new intake valves as the pistons have come up and hit them. This is pretty annoying as it took a while to setup the new motor, and all along i should have cracked the head open from the start.. This must have been quite apparent and noisey in the previous application.
But anyway what i need to know is if anyone can source aftermarket intake valves for an 18RGEU -88270 head?? I can get a genuine head gasket, timing cover gasket, and timing chain for good prices, but the valves we can only get GENUINE TOYOTA and they are damn expensive from what i hear!! i hopefully will be able to find some cheaper, even good second hand would be perfectly adequate! if anyone has a spare set of decent -88270 valves for sale i would be very grateful.
ALSO, there are 2 or 3 guides in the timing cover, and one of these is quite worn from the chains.. This giude is around $150 genuine and i'd be stoked if anybody makes aftermarket timing parts for the 18rg, to save me some much needed dollars!!
Also, being the first time having the head off i had a llok at the pistons and they have a considerable dome in them, not over 10-12mm high but still not a flat top piston.. it is a small raised plateau with slots machined in each side for the valves.. I dont think they are the 10:1 comp. pistons.. but would these be standard 88270 items, or 18RGu 9.4:1?
Thanks heaps,
______________
BlackRA28
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Mon, 02 June 2003 12:01
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the standard compression pistons from all the 18R-G's are as follows:
Engine Code (cc) (C/R) HP NOTES:
18R-G 1968 9.7:1 145 210 Cyl. Head
18R-GR 1968 9.2:1 135 Air Injection
18R-GRU 1968 9.2:1 130 EGR
18R-GU 1968 8.7:1 125 Yamaha Head
18R-GEU 1968 8.3:1 125 Fuel Injection
*note: the R after the dash i belive is supposed to represent reduced compression for regular fuels. The difference between the 18R-GU and the 18R-GRU was the head and smog gear... the head regaining the lost power from the 8.7:1 lowered compression to an extent*
Now having seen the 9.7:1 against the 8.7:1, the 9.7:1 pistons do have quite a considerable dome... and i would be able to identify for sure with a realatively clear picture! I can't remember the exact dome height but i remember what the top looks like.
As for aftermarket timing gear. No idea. Unfortunalely you are stuck with genuine i believe!
Valves - again no idea. Most people just get factory replacements or go oversized.. either way its pretty expensive im afraid.
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Mon, 02 June 2003 12:25
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thanks Witzl, Yeh ill try and get piccy's of the pistons and the head/valves etc...
Hey has anybody had any experience with this site : http://www.swmotorsport.com.au/ ?
It is Stewart Wilkins Motorsport, and they claim to have extensive parts contacts and suppliers.. I am pretty tempted by their 18RG parts and the good prices.. Has anyone ever bought parts through them or know what they're like??
Does anyone know if Timing gear (ie top chain, guides) or Intake Valves differ between the 18RG and 18RGEU ??
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Mon, 02 June 2003 12:40
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they are the goods - i think thats the mob Rod refers everyone too!
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Tue, 03 June 2003 09:22
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9.7 compression pistons have a 6.3ish mm high dome.
8.7 compression 18rgu pistons have a 4ish mm high dome
TRD 11.5 compression ones are noticably higher. Around the 10mm mark from memory (sight not measured)
The part number from my brothers 8.7's is 88251 (found just inside the piston)
The 9.7's we picked up are 88252
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Location:
Gold Coast
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Tue, 03 June 2003 10:02
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ive been wondering about the piston difference in the 18rg this is what i have gathered so far.
18r-c flat top piston
18r-g domed pistons with recessions for valve clearence
18r-gr same as above smaller dome
18r-gu domed pistons no recessions
18r-geu no idea
is this correct? does anyone have pictures of these pistons?
thanks
Daniel
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Tue, 03 June 2003 10:37
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Hey yeh i'l try to remember to measure mine up, but they definately have small recesses cut into them..
I Got prices on a few of the parts i need new:
Top timing chain - $33
Genuine Toyota Head gasket - $55
" timing cover gasket - $13
wait for it..
" Top timing chain guide - $200 !!!!!!!!!!! 
What i still need are 4 -88270 18RGeu INTAKE VALVES!!!!! somewhere has to be able to get them?? if anybody happens to have an old 18Rgeu sitting around i would be very interested in those valves.
SWR can get the 18RG items, but are these a different size to the later 18R-GEU ?? are valve stem seals different?? If anyone has any positive info or spec sheets for the motor that would be heaps handy!!
ALSO: i need the top timing guide which pivots at the bottom, as the tensioner bolt pushes against it. Mine is fairly worn and they are ridiculous price new ... I would be very appreciative if anyone could dig thru their stuff and find one in decent condition, with fairly low wear, id be happy to pay you well.
This is starting to piss me off, i hate when tiny little things cost stupid prices, even if they are 20 years old..
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Tue, 03 June 2003 14:09
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All 18rg series pistons have valve recesses, the diameter may differ between vintages though.
The 18rgu valves, being larger than the original era motor require larger recesses.
Not too sure about the valve diameter of the 18rgue but the 88252 pistons have a 9.7:1 CR and have recesses to suit the 18rgu valve size.
As for valves, try Peter Davey Toyota on Main North Rd Prospect. If Robin (spare parts) is back from holidays he might be able to help you.
Trying to find valves is really hard for 18rgs of any type. They, along with the 2tgs have a rare stem diameter of 8.5mm.
Toyota diesol engines are about the only other engines I've heared of that have this size stem, but unfortunately the valve heads are smaller so I've heared.
The valve stem seals can be used though!
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Wed, 04 June 2003 01:40
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interesting to hear that the part number for the 9.7:1 pistons ends in 88252.... usually the way i've noticed with the varying 18R-G's number their parts is like this:
Head number is say, 11111-88230
then cams are ******-88230 and *****-88231
other parts are the same... *****-8823x
and if the head number were 11111-88250
then other parts in motor are ******-8825x
intriguing.
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Location:
Mackay, Nth Queensland
Registered:
June 2002
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 Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Wed, 04 June 2003 02:33
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here's a pic of 2 different pistons; to the left is the 9.7:1 piston from the 18rg block, and the one to the right should be the 8.7:1 from an 18rgu block. both pistons have recessions for valve clearance
and heres a picture with the 9.7:1 compression pistons in the 18rg block all nicely polished 
By the way, exactly how much are you saying the valves cost blackRA28?
regards,
jarrod.
PS i have plenty more photos on the 18rg motor, if you want to see just ask.
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Wed, 04 June 2003 09:35
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Im saying i cant get ANY intake valves! so far im hoping to find some decent 2nd hand ones, but in the meantime get the damaged ones out and take them to a head specialist or somewhere, and see if they can match something up.
Id love to get the pistons out and see what exactly i have in my motor, but for now i think they are the ones on the right maybe?? mine definately have a small dome with shallowish valve recesses.
Does anybody at all know what the standard 18R-Geu 88270 pistons look like?
Also still stuck for inlet valves so if anybody has any links from engine or head rebuilders, im open to advice and would be very grateful.
Cheers,
Guy
_______________
BlackRA28
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Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Wed, 04 June 2003 12:23
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the stock 88270 pistons will look pretty damn flat.. being opnly 8.3:1 compression
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Location:
Mackay, Nth Queensland
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Wed, 04 June 2003 12:34
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what exactly do you need? just the intake valves or both intake and exhaust valves?
i have a set of both valves as well as a complete head setup. however i will only sell them with the rest of the parts but not the head itself (its started to corrode at the water jackets).
what top end setup do you have at the moment - is it stock or modded?
the head has only done 30000klms since rebuild so all parts are in good nick. they include double valve springs, longer duration cams, intake and exhaust valves, timing chain and bits and pieces - everything except for the head itself. i will check to make sure it is the 88270 but i'm quite positive it is, since i have another 88270 head which looks exactly the same.
if you're interested gimme a yell so we can sort things out.
regards,
jarrod.
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Wed, 04 June 2003 12:55
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Hey man that would be great, i need just the 88270 intake valves..
And if you have the timing gear, the top Adjustable Guide, which the tensioner bolt touches to adjust chain tension, it is mounted on a pivot at one end, bit below the left cam gear looking at the front of the engine. Mine is fairly worn and i wanted to just get a new chain, but i really need one of these and they are $200 brand new. mine has grooves carved in it.. 
But yeah if all the gear is from an -88270 head and has this stamped on the side of it i mite be very interested.. if not all the stuff due to transport costs, id definately get the valves off you and that timing Guide if wanted to separate these two items..
Do you think you could measure the dimensions of the intake valves? And do you have any photos of the gear??
Im still trying to get photos of all my stuff, and i could take a picture of the timing guide i need..
Cheers,
Guy
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blackRA28
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Wed, 04 June 2003 12:59
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Oh yeh and what numbers are stamped on the cams??what do you mean by longer duration, do you mean longer than stock? were different cams put in in the rebuild? they should have the number stamped at one end of each cam..
cheers
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Location:
Mackay, Nth Queensland
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Wed, 04 June 2003 13:19
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longer duration cams - so the intake and exhaust valves are opened for longer periods to allow better flow of fuel especially at high revs.
ok i'll get some pictures of all the gear i have up for sale and post them tommorrow arvo. if i can sell most of the gear, i can do you a cheap deal, but i wont sell the valves on their own sorry.
i'll see what i can do,
jarrod.
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Wed, 04 June 2003 14:35
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Cheers mate,
Yeh i understand the theory i was just wondering where u got the cams from, like were they a re-grind or are they from the older 8825x heads? this is why it would be interesting to know the number stamped on each one.. Unless u happen to know the specs of them? because im not sure if cams like these would be beneficial in my setup seeing im using stock efi and not-very-high comp. pistons.. they would probably just wreck fuel economy, unless i majorly tweaked it for premuim. Not that i wouldnt mind trying a different set. sometime when i get the mot or up and running..
If you can find that timing guide id be happy to offer you a decent amount for it if its not too worn.. and same goes for the valves, if they are not too worn im happy to pay what you are asking.
Also, where abouts are you located? just curious..
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Thu, 05 June 2003 04:18
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What exactly have you got, and how much are you asking for it all?
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Location:
Mackay, Nth Queensland
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Thu, 05 June 2003 08:10
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i've checked the head number and its 11111-88253. The camshaft numbers are 1351[n]-88251 (n is 1 or 2 for left and right) and they also have "NPR" stamped on them - could this be the brand? Ok now i have measured the valves lengths and diammeters which are:
Inlet valve
Diammeter: 45mm
Length: 107mm
Exhaust valve
Diammeter: 38.5mm
Length: 106mm
(not sure which is bigger - inlet or exhaust - i've forgotten, but they are the sizes for the 2 valves.)
Ok so here is a picture (big 1024x768, might take a while on dialup) of all the parts i'm talking about.
there is three timing guides - one for the top, the adjustable curved one and the fixed curved one.
the 2 cams with the 5 bearings for each shaft. 8 double valve springs with the round brakets that clamp onto the end of the valves. also the caps and the magnetic flat pieces that go on the inside of them. you've mentioned the chain tensioner so i've included that too. the timing chain and other chain (can remove if not needed) and last bit not least the inlet and exhaust valves.
you mentioned that the 8825x camshafts might not be benificial for your setup (efi and stock pistons). well my previous 18rgeu engine (with dual weber carbies) used the same camshaft and parts. it also had 88270 pistons which is the one shown on the right in the picture above with the 2 pistons. so if you were to try a different setup then i would definitely consider using these.
another thought, if you don't think that the parts might not go well with your setup you could maybe go with a different head. preferrably the 88253 one that i have, since it has also been machine ported. just an idea if you're interested - i could sell the whole lot cheaper as a package.
let me know what you think,
jarrod.
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Thu, 05 June 2003 12:14
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What condition are all these parts in, also how old are they? how many k's approx. have they run do you think? Sorry for the twenty questions just trying to consider my options..
How much would you want for the whole lot pictured above then, if say they were all in good working order and i was to purchase all parts together? If it was reasonable i would consider buying all in the above photograph to make it easier.. but i would really only want it for the valves and timing guides at present.
Its just gonna add up to more in transport costs if i get it all, but if you want to separate the inlet valves and timing guides you could probably just send it through Australia Post C.O.D. in a padded parcel envelope.
What are those timing guides like, have any grooves/wear in them? i am mainly interested in that adjustable curved one.
Thanks
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Location:
Mackay, Nth Queensland
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Thu, 05 June 2003 23:24
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all the parts are in working condition, that is they've only done less than 10000klms since a rebuild (i could still see the hone marks in the bore of the engine and the top head gaskets were in excellent condition). all these parts were used in the 88253 head and went with an 18rg block (9.7:1 pistons). i bought the engine off a guy so i could swap the block with my original 18rgeu block (the bores were stuffed - next to nothing on compression) but i kept the 88270 head which has the same setup as the 88253 head. confusing?!
for all the parts, i am asking for $350. bear in mind that these are all in good working order. not sure what freight will be but my guess is around $100 (15kg).
i'm sorry i can't separate the items as this would only leave me with your problem (no valves) if i tried to sell the rest 
the timing guides are in good condition and here's a closeup of the three guides for your reference
if you are just looking for the valves and timing guides my advice would be to buy them from toyota - if you still can ?!
otherwise if you want to try something different (longer duration cams etc.) then i would invest in the parts mentioned above, but thats your choice
or if you're adventurous you could buy the complete head setup being the 88253 version (the best 18rg head for carbies) for an extra $200. (i sound like a salesman, but i guarantee you i'm not!)
cheers,
jarrod
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Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Fri, 06 June 2003 00:59
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Go to a head specialist they will make up custom stainless steel valves for you for $75 - $85 dolloars a lot better than standard valves, you can choose the size and cheaper.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Sat, 07 June 2003 04:11
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blackRA28 check your email
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 18RGeu: Aftermarket intake valves?? Also what pistons do i have?
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Wed, 11 June 2003 03:07
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Dude, I've managed to locate three intake valves for a 88250 head in Adelaide, not sure of diameter but they might be the right ones.
They are at Just Jap Auto Dismantlers.
How to get there.
Head North along South Road from Grand Junction Road, go past Cormack Road Wingfield and take the first right after the train tracks (it is on the corner of a side street right next to the train tracks so you'll have to do a u turn if coming from the south). Actual Address is South Terrace
They have a 88250 head with three intake valves, four (I think) exhaust valves and the older, three bolt style cams without the timing adjustment.
If your interested the head is on a rack on the left hand side as you head out to their storage yard and is labelled 18R not 18R-G. You cn't mis it, it is the only shiny silver one there about chest height.
They might be willing to separate the head as it is already missing one intake valve and all the valve buckets and shims.
I hope this helps you out.
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