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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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 difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 00:39
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i was just curious to see what the differences are between the MA61 supra the sa63 celica and the ra65 celica
as far as i can tell the ra65 and sa63 are basically identicle except for the engine.
the supra has a 6cyl and cosmetically seams to have a different (longer) front
what else if different/the same in these cars?
cheers
mat
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 00:57
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The SA63 and RA65 are basically the same as you describe.
The Supra is totally different from the firewall forward, they have a longer wheelbase to go with their longer engine bay. They obviously as you described have the longer bonnet as well.
They received a better interior, rear disc brakes, and in the case of the Australian version, all have LSD and climate control.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 01:53
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i think the chasis rails in front of the firewall are diferent... different cross member too? longer wheelbase (as franky mentioned)
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 01:55
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Pretty much you can count anything front of the firewall as being different 
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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 02:20
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does the ma61 have irs?
how different is the front suspension between the supra and the celica?
how heavy is a standard ma61?
cheers
mat
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 02:25
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Yep, the Mk2 (as I shall now call it to cover all variants) had IRS from its inception in 1981. The suspension isn't really that much different, but enough. Its more the chassis, the crossmember, everything really.
The official weight of an MA61 (because there are a few variations with varying weight) is ~1275kg. BlackSupra's car with a 6MGE manual weighed in at 1297kg on a weighbridge when getting engineered, and from memory Ed's weighed 1340kg with a toolbox, stereo and half a tank of fuel. Its around the 1300-1350kg mark on average I'd say.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 03:00
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| bozwon wrote on Tue, 17 June 2003 12:20 |
does the ma61 have irs?
how different is the front suspension between the supra and the celica?
how heavy is a standard ma61?
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Yeap all had IRS and disc's to my knowledge.
Umm not 100%, but I think that the struts are a little different. A little more track and steeper kingpin angle?
Are RA60 struts the same as RA65 struts?
Ed's site here has a look at struts here
Not sure on weight, about 1280kg I think? Some one will post the correct one.
Cheers
Wilbo
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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 04:05
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would the ma61 diff and brakes bolt into a sa63 with little or no monification?
cheers
mat
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 04:07
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Yeah, they should. What sort of diff does yours have at the moment? An F-series, or a T-series? It should be on the plate in the engine bay.
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 04:16
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i get a stiffy when people link my site 
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 04:23
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Ed after reading that im not sure i want my tech article associated with your site anymore 
ohh yeah the sump pics dont load and u need to update it with some more articles, and stay outta bumtown u no talent bum.... 
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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 04:29
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i think off the top of my head it is a T series diff (T312 I think) ill check this afternoon. I know it’s a 3.9 ratio diff
cheers
mat
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 06:02
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Bozwon, you'd probably have to swap most if not all of the rear subframe over. I'm doing the same thing currently, trying to swap the mimimal amount over to make my T312 diff an F303, but then again, I already have disc brakes so I might be able to get away with swapping axles and centre.
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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 07:38
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yeah its a T312 diff in the celica
what diff is in the supra? is there an lsd diff that will bolt into the celica?
cheers
mat
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 07:40
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Not really. You'd have to swap over the whole rear subframe, it'd probably be a good idea as the F-series diff will handle the 1GGTE better. Especially if you plan on throwing so much money at the 1G, it'll be making a lot of power.
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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 07:42
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ahh just checked the codes an f303 is lsd what is that diff out of and what did yours cost you justcallmefrank
chers
mat
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I supported Toymods
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Perth
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May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 07:44
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F303 is yep, a 3.73:1 LSD. Probably not the ideal ratio, but it came in a parts car we bought, and after a minor sideways moment with both rear wheels lighting up, at least I know it works
Maybe you should try with the couple of people wrecking MA61's.
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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 07:54
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so the F303 comes in all MA61's?
as far as i know its got a 7.5" ringgear compared to 6.7" in the t series diff.
cheers mat
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 08:03
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Well, my parts car is a Euro-spec MA61 with a 5MGE.
The Australian spec MA61 came with a 4.1:1 for the autos and 3.9:1 for the manuals.
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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 08:08
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so the manual aus spec ma61 had an f313? (lsd,3.909 ratio)
cheers
mat
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I supported Toymods
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Perth
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May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 08:09
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Yes.
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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 11:01
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if i get everything out of the back of a ma61 will it bolt into the SA63
cheers
mat
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I supported Toymods
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Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 11:03
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Yeah. Its a common thing for the guys in the States to do to their GTS Celica's.
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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 11:10
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excuse my ignorance but whats a GTS celica?
thanks for answering my questions so quick justcallmefrank
also is there anyone who has driven both an sa63/ra65 celica and a ma61 supra that can tell me which handles better.
cheers
mat
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I supported Toymods
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Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 11:36
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Thats cool dude, I'm just studying in front of the computer. Celica GTS is one we didn't get here. Like a mini-Supra with flares.
As for someone who has punted them both hard...Draven should know, but his current ride might be dictated a little more by the use of his right foot
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 11:39
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I cant comment on the sa63, but my current ma61 handles better than my ra65 did (bear in mind it's got stiffer springs and kyb shocks). The ra65 always felt like it was going faster around corners, but when I look at the speedo the ma61 is actually going much faster with less tire screeching. My previous ma61 felt like it handled worse than the celica, but I never checked the speedos to do a real comparison.
I'd assume the longer wheelbase of the supra, along with wider tires stock, would make it handle better
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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 11:54
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hmm
im actually trying to figure out whether a ijzgte would be a better engine swap that a 1ggte in the SA63 but pepple said it would upset the handeling too much but considering im gonna change the suspension anyway i may as well just go for the 1j
cheers
mat
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 11:57
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I hate to be boring and cranky sounding, but have a search of the forums on swaping the 1jz into any sort of celica.
with the Xa6X, the engine bay just doesn't quite fit the 1jz in. you'll be looking at thermo fans and a custom radiator + mounts just to squeezse the thing in there.
and not all of the handling problems will be fixed with your suspension change (hence what I said about the longer wheelbase)
as most people say.. of course it's possible, but it wont be cheap!
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 12:02
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lol...
i see a perfect opportunity...
but will resist
1jz vs 1g into ra6x discussion still has steam coming off it... go look
ed
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 12:26
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He knows, from memory he started the discussion on it! Why aren't you on bloody ICQ anymore?
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Registered:
August 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 12:56
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It is written down in the ICQ history, but sadly, that was remembered, as was Ed's.
Seriously Bozwon, if you really do have your heart set on a 1JZGTE, maybe purchasing a Supra would be a good option, I know once I worked out with my RA60 that it made more sense to but the Celica XX.
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 13:02
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Oh dear
You have some serious weight loss issues hahaha
Bozwon - think long term.
Sit down, write up what is currently wrong with your car or what you would like fixed to get it working perfectly.
Then make a list of conversion expenses. Add the two duh 
Now compare this to buying an MA61 outright in pretty damn good condition and doing the swap. Without structural modification to the supra to accept the 1jz.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 13:05
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I can offer the same advice.
I loved my RA65 to bits (ended up selling it to someone who'll put it to good use with a 1g-gte conversion). I was considering the 1g-gte conversion, but I knew in my heart I wanted more power. After looking at the options, the best way to go was sell the celica, buy a ma61 supra and do the conversion in that. it's already got bigger brakes, bigger engine bay... I ended up buying a ma61 with the 1jz-gte conversion already done, but I dont think you'll be lucky enough to find one of those any time soon
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 13:44
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you gonna make it to the dyno day?
I'd love to see you there challenging the 1uz-fe boys in the top n/a class
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 14:43
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Whats wrong with http://go.icq.com ? Yes its gay, but at least it works 
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Location:
c'town, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Tue, 17 June 2003 21:58
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ahh ed now you've done it, u shouldnt have made a power estimate, that sorta talk will put the kaibosh onto u...
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Wed, 18 June 2003 00:17
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Yeah, a corolla is bound to beat you now
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Wed, 18 June 2003 00:20
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And other small things to mention
supras have a crazy retro digi dash and thicker front sway bar, not sure about the rear one, but i think that is the same.
The rims are also 14x7, i think the celica ones are 15x6 ?
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Perth
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Wed, 18 June 2003 00:25
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Celica ones are 14x5.5" The 15x6" rims are import L-type/Celica XX or GZ10 Soarer rims.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Wed, 18 June 2003 01:30
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and thanks to the supras flared arches and 14x7 rims, you can cram 265 rubber on those babies at the back, and 245 at the front!
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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Wed, 18 June 2003 07:35
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| bozwon wrote on Wed, 18 June 2003 16:14 |
i saw some pics on the net a few days ago of a guy with a 2jzgte ma61. how hard would it have been to put that in the supra.
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That guy's a norb....
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Wed, 18 June 2003 07:43
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I hear he's a bit of a nutter. You'd best keep away from him!
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Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Wed, 18 June 2003 07:51
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fuckin dodgy install too 
theres NO WAY you can legally get a 2jz into an ma61 without moving the firewall. theyre simply too long (longer than a 1jz which barely fits as it is...
and the guy who dropped it in is a bit of a jerk too...
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Registered:
August 2002
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Wed, 18 June 2003 08:06
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| ed_ma61 wrote on Wed, 18 June 2003 17:51 |
fuckin dodgy install too
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haha Yeah, I love the thermo fans.
You fixed them up yet Norbie?!
| BlackSupra wrote on Wed, 18 June 2003 17:57 |
EDIT: i look like a n00b, how come i didnt get those other replys to my inbox!
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This might clear things up a bit.
http://forums.toymods.org.au/index.php?t=msg&t h=15227#msg_num_8
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Registered:
August 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Wed, 18 June 2003 08:29
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Ta Nark, perfectly understandable.
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I supported Toymods
Location:
Epping, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Wed, 18 June 2003 09:44
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you bastards, net bashing my poor norbie
come here schnookims, I still love you
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Location:
Hobart, Tas
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Wed, 18 June 2003 12:29
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This is the first confirmation I have read that says an sa63 has a t-series diff. I used to think so, but someone o nthese forums told me they had F-series
You can swap the whole rear subframe for the LSD/discs fairly easilly, I am told. See www.celica-gts.com under tech sections (i think) for a writeup.
Only thing is, in the US later GTS celicas came with discs so you can grab their proportioning valve. Can't do that here. The Supra has 2 lines from the valve going to the back, the Celica has one.. so it's not quite as easy. Gotta mod it somehow or install another line.
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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Thu, 19 June 2003 00:15
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i saw it on a different page but thats the car. (from memory it had 5 spoke simmons wheels on it.)
im guessing the conversion is hard to do.
whats the going rate for a decent MA61? (ill check redbook but its not always accurate)
cheers guys
mat
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Thu, 19 June 2003 00:54
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Different car actually; that's Paul Pyyvaara's Supra. Very similar conversion to mine except he used an automatic transmission.
http://www.onthenet.com.au/~paulp/supra/
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Location:
nowra
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Thu, 19 June 2003 01:04
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thats the one i saw the other day
what size was the largest engine thet came standard in the MA61. its a 2.8 litre right?
it should be a legal conversion looking at the adr's
cheers
mat
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I supported Toymods
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Perth
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May 2002
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Re: difference between ma61 supra - and SA63/RA65 celica
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Thu, 19 June 2003 01:05
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Yep, largest engine was 2.8l.
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