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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 03:52
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Im thinking of finally starting to build my ke30 project car
i want to know what is involved in building the car with either a 4agze engine or a CA18DET engine
i was also thinking of a 2tgeu supercharged
also with each of these combinations how quick would the car cover the 1/4
Cheers
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 07:29
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ive seen both
a friend of mine has a CA18DET ke30
and it goes well
i guess it all depends on what your after out of it really
the ca drops in easy and they are cheap as
the ze is the same
how far do u want to take the motor?
what kind of power do u want?
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 08:10
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the CA18DET really appeals to me
can you tell me more about whats involved...
and the same for the 4agze...
Im after enough power to see the car running 13s
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 08:23
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just mounts both engine and gearbox
shortend tail shaft and thats about it
oh and convert in to hydrolic clutch
with a 3" exhaste, front mount intercooler, after market computer and up the boost abit and you will run a low 13...
tho a turbo 4agze is more work for around the same results
(that said id still do the gze turbo)
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 08:32
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im getting happier each time i check your replies,
a few more questions if you dont mind
now this is going to show how new i am at all this but here goes
how do i get mounts both engine and gearbox made up?
how much will that cost me?
how do i get the tailshaft shortened and how much will that cost me?
who can do all of this, im located in Cherrybrook, Sydney
also just wondering what gearbox will i use? will i have to mod the tunnel to fit it? and will the gear stick come through the existing hole
Cheers
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 08:58
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Definitely a CA18 is the way to go... I know I'm treading on thin ground here on a Toyota forum, but 4AGZE's are sh!t and certainly one of the more overrated motors out there.
Oh, and if you have to ask questions like that about engine conversions, I'd think twice about actually doing one!
Take your tailshaft to a tailshaft shop. They will shorten it for you and charge you a fee for the service. Expect about $150 for this, assuming you don't need new unis or anything like that. They will need to fit the yoke to suit the CA gearbox of course.
Engine mounts can be a bit tricky.. the way to go is lower the engine into the engine bay.. and either get a mate around who can weld.. or take the car to someone who can! Mine cost me $60 for an exhaust shop to make up.
Another option is to make the mounts up out of wood and take them to someone to make from metal. You could also just get a shop to do the whole lot, but you're talking $$$ there.
Once the engine is bolted in the gearbox crossmember is straightforward (mine bolted stright to the floor actually), get the same place to make that up, just make it out of wood/cardboard and get them to do it.
OMG, use the CA18 gearbox and clutch.
I can't recommend any shops as I'm in Brisbane.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 09:05
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thanks for the info!
and yes maybe i shouldnt be undertaking the conversion
but why not ;its all a good learning process
and i dont mind asking questions as i like learning new stuff
so at the risk of sounding like a beginner yet again im going to ask more questions
im thinking that the CA18DET is the way to go, so are there other considerations i should be thinking of
like:
radiator?
wiring?
coils?
can the stock computer run it?
will it bolt up to the tailshaft, diff etc?
and will the gear shift come through the existing gearshit hole?
Cheers
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 09:08
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quick question to is this a legal conversion in nsw and can i get it engineeered?
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Location:
sunny coast, qld
Registered:
October 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 09:12
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i would definitely be talking to a local engineer before undertaking any project. also, you basically have 2 choices with wiring.
1. Buy motor and gearbox and install with aftermarket CPU. probably a little more expensive but if you are going to be modding than it is a handy thing to have.
2. buy front cut and use standard ECU. then you could probably use the radiator from the silvia as it would probably be better than the ke30 one. I would definitely get a bigger intercooler than the silvia one though as they are tiny. something like a ma70, jza70 supra one or a series 4 or 5 rx7 one. these are pretty good and not too expensive.
that is all i can help you with.
later
chris
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 09:25
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u will prob be lokmin at spoending 5000
that is 2000 or so for engine gbox and electrics
then u need all the extra
like up to 500 for fuel system
500 for ewxhaust
tailshaft
radiator
it will prob cost 500 to 1000 for someone to make the mounts properly
not some cheap ass ones
i have seen some fukt jobs come from some workshops so beware
make sure they have done afew 4cyl conversions b4
but leave about a grand spare for the things u forget during the long job
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 09:25
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intercooler and radiator would come later
just interested in getting the car up and running first
has anyone here actually done the conversion
how bout fuel pump would i neeed one?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 10:55
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u would need an efi one and maybe even a prime pump for the surge tank if u run a surge tank
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 11:02
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right got ya
....*writes down on shopping list
as a matter of interest willbe gbox fit in the existing tunnel?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 11:06
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ca18 has biggish box
so maybe
i think 4agze rwd box is like one in sprinter so might be ok
best to get a tape measure out
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 11:07
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good idea will do
you seem to do engine conversions as a business have you got suggestions or thoughts on ke30 engine conversion?
do u think the CA18DET is a good one or would you do something else? if so what?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
March 2003
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 11:10
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u can get good power from ca18 t
especially if u get good exhaust and boost it to 12 psi on std computer
get an intercooler later aswell
better hp than a 4agze i think
but im a nissan fan thats y  so im bit biased
but for a good nice neat job it does cost alot
dont forget engineers papers these days are about 400 or so i think
thern u have to see if diff will handle the power
i know a ca18t in a datsun 1200 is good fun but the diff cant handle the power
they break axles if u have diff sufaces on each rear wheel
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 15:38
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No Message Body
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 15:40
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weight : 891kg
capacity
Turbo : 2227.5 cc
N/A : 2673 cc
so that counts the 13b out (old corolla mailinglist)
the ca gearbox fits in the tunnel
(the auto tunnel is bigger)
the stock radiator will work fine as well
(as long as it works as its ment to)
i can give you the number of the guy who has done this
and email u a pic of his engine bay if you want to see it
(he will also be at the dyno day)
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Tue, 01 July 2003 17:47
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4agze conversion
you would want fwd version. more power, reliability and stronger internals.
will mate up to a t50 box or a k50 (but not worth it). can mate up supras with a fabricated bellhouging.
engine mounts can be fabricated and ke30 have 3 mounting points for the gearbox. i had mine on the furthiest back one. all ke30 tunnels are the same size. auto or manual.
if your going to use the internal i/c make sure you front mount it. besides it wont fit ontop without a scoop. there is enough room up front for the i/c if you use 15mm spacers to put the raditor back.
at the very least upgrade brakes on the back to ke55. the whole diff is the easiest way. has larger drums.
all the plumbing will face the wrong way. not too hard to fix
the ignition coils cant stay in the stock place on the rear of the motor. mount them on the firewall
will need a rwd manifold. i have one and sure plenty of 4agte guys do too so no shortage.
mount the surge tank in the boot. will need a fuel pump and pre pump aswell. extra fuel lines.
expect diff breakage at some time  however dont be stupid and it should last a while.
thats all i can think of just now
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Wed, 02 July 2003 02:21
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sideshow:
about the diff; do you have any suggestions on what may bolt in to improve it, or is it a hilux job?
EMP-2TG: thanks for that
the pic of your mates engine bay would be great, as well as his contact number
would love to see the outside of his car to
when is the dyno day i might come along if nobody minds
faulksy: good info you have there
got a few more questions, sounds like you have done the 4agze into ke30 conversion..
mount the surge tank in the boot. will need a fuel pump and pre pump aswell. extra fuel lines.
is this needed for the 4agze?
are you using aftermarker ones? or 2nd hand ones?
what are your thoughts on a plain 4age conversion and then turbo charging it a later date?
if so which 4age engine would i use and would everything else you have said remain the same?
im thinking this as the 4agze engines dont go cheaply compared to a 4age or a CA18DET for that matter..
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Wed, 02 July 2003 02:58
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p2katwork,
you REALLY need to speak to an engineer or at least a shop to get more ideas of what is required to get it legal.
for starters, running 13's will require a decent amount of power, and you will need brakes that are sufficient to stop the car with that power. a good engineer will tell you what you need to do.
also, if you plan 13's, you will need a strong diff (since you will launch it hard) so bite the bullet and get a shortened hilux LSD diff. expect at lest a grand for that.
if you turbo an NA motor, you should drop the compression, especially if you want to run big numbers. if you want to turbo a 4AG, cheapest way is to start with 4AGZE block as it has low compression already.
alternatively, start with an already turboed motor.... tho you may still haev to decrease compression for higher boost..
for what you want, you'll need aftermarket computer, high and low pressure fuel pumps for the EFI, probably new fuel lines too, custom engine and gearbox mounts, radiator that's bigger than the KE30 one, LARGE brakes etc... the list goes on and on.
remember what you are trying to do, make an old car run fast. you need to have parts that can handle the extra power reliably, and also the suspension and brakes so you don't kill yourself or any unlucky bystanders.
fwiw, the engine price is not that much compared to the overall conversion cost. $5k is reasonable IF you do most of it yourself. to do 13's, you will need to do a fair bit of work on the motor (at least injectors and turbo) and other stuff like getting suspension right for racing etc, will set you back another grand or two...
although a conversion is a good way to learn about stuff, a better way may be to rebuild a K or datto A motor so you have more of an idea of what is involved.. go hang around a decent shop or meet up with ppl who have done conversions and ask them what is involved (i know, that's what you are doing here)..
not trying to be a pain, but it sounds like you need to do some more grass roots work... go have a look at your car (or anyones really), imagine you've ripped out the motor, gearbox, diff, fuel system, cooling system and brakes, and then imagine that you have to put it all back in again, but bigger to cope with the bigger motor... that is how you have to design it and think about it, because that is what you are doing!!!
dyno day is this sunday, and would be an awesome oppurtunity to talk to guys that have done conversions to find out what's involved....
good luck
Cya, Stewart
| p2katwork wrote on Wed, 02 July 2003 12:21 |
sideshow:
about the diff; do you have any suggestions on what may bolt in to improve it, or is it a hilux job?
when is the dyno day i might come along if nobody minds
mount the surge tank in the boot. will need a fuel pump and pre pump aswell. extra fuel lines.
is this needed for the 4agze?
are you using aftermarker ones? or 2nd hand ones?
what are your thoughts on a plain 4age conversion and then turbo charging it a later date?
if so which 4age engine would i use and would everything else you have said remain the same?
im thinking this as the 4agze engines dont go cheaply compared to a 4age or a CA18DET for that matter..
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Wed, 02 July 2003 03:14
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In regrads to the CA, if you do measure up the gearbox and find you may have issues the gearbox from and RB20 is slightly smaller and shorter and will bolt straight up.
In the long run the nissan box will be cheaper to get, easier to fit and handle a shit load more power than any easy bolt on option from Toyota for the 4AGZE. Of course putting a supra box on the ZE overcomes power issues - but it is not an easy bolt on as has already been highlighted!
Cheers
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Wed, 02 July 2003 03:21
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oldcorollas:
thanks for the advice
i know that its unwise to be undertaking this conversion myself (especially seeing as im a beginnner)
so i am now trying to line up some mates who have automotive experience, one of whom is a mechanic; be good if i can get him to do it all eh 
im not trying to get the car to run 13's straight away and dont worry im well aware that the brakes and suspension will need to be upgraded (another post coming hehe)
there is more information floating around about the suspension and brakes but not as much about the engine side, hence my questions
can you offer your advice on how you go about fueling either of these engines? what sort of set up, pumps etc would be needed
dyno day? where and what time?
Youngy
In regrads to the CA, if you do measure up the gearbox and find you may have issues the gearbox from and RB20 is slightly smaller and shorter and will bolt straight up.
thanks for that info, just to clarify it will bolt up on the mounts or the engine?
interesting idea though if its shorter as then i may not have to get the tailshaft shortened...
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Location:
Kita-Ku, Sapporo, Japan
Registered:
January 2003
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Wed, 02 July 2003 03:43
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oki, as long as you knwo what you are in for
actually, it's much easier to swap in an engine/gearbox than to upgrade suspension..
this is because you swap the engine and box in as a whole, make new engine mounts for it, cut a hole in the tunnel maybe and it's in. the hard bit is adapting the wiring from the engine to the car.
for suspension, you have more constraints, such as where original suspension is located, camber changes, track changes, bolt patterns etc... not as easy as it looks... some ppl put corona/celica struts into corollas, but then have to widen the control arms by 2 or 3cm to get the camber back....
for fuel you will probably need a low pressure lift pump (either internal or external, internal can be adapted to your tank) and then an external high pressure pump. you need to match the flow of the two pumps, and it also helps to have a surge tank....
other option is to have a hiugh pressure intank pump fitted to your tank.
dyno day? look in the events section of the toymods home page.
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Wed, 02 July 2003 05:59
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i have had both a 4age and a 4agze in my ke30. pics of the engine bay can be seen in hot4s june 2001.
you will need the extra fuels lines no matter what motor you choose as both are efi.
definitely go 4agze over 4age wheter or not you choice to turbo it or not. have ceramic coated forged pistons and shot peened rods on the later ze's.
most of the stuff i mention before is going to stay the same if you 4age. except the plumbing if you get a rwd version (not cheap anymore, about the same price as ze) and they also have coils
on the tilbrooks dyno (one used for most zoom tech articles) i was able to produce 100kw at the treads was seeing around 108kw that day but was on a 40+ degree day. only mods. front mounted the original i/c and had a microtech computer.
there is plenty of info on this site about putting turbos on 4agze. unfortunately have no knowledge of this as havent done it yet. will soon thought once my ke10 is finished.
either way you go your going to be able to get awesome results. and whoever said 4agze are overrated i believe is no where near the truth. i have seen some 4agze hit some big figures.
as for diff i would go with a shortened borg warner 78 series conversion over the hilux. the borg warner series cxame out in many cars and have much better braking options and gear ratios avaliable
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Location:
Carlingford, Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Wed, 02 July 2003 06:42
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ill pm you with his info...
faulksy
is that the hot4s year book? june 2001?
if so both those rollas were owned and built by my friends
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Wed, 02 July 2003 09:11
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EMP-2TG: that would be great thanks
let him know im gonna be asking heaps of questions if he doesnt mind
did he do the conversion himself, would be great if he can remember everything required
have you got any pics of his car as well?
faulksy
very informative, ive learnt heaps since i started this tthread
anyone know the going price for a complete 4agze engine?
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Wed, 02 July 2003 09:17
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What I mean is it will bolt up to the engine without a single issue at all.
Cheers
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Wed, 02 July 2003 14:28
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| EMP-2TG wrote on Wed, 02 July 2003 16:12 |
ill pm you with his info...
faulksy
is that the hot4s year book? june 2001?
if so both those rollas were owned and built by my friends
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its the issue with the green jungle fever wrx on the front. car isnt a feature car. just has a few pics of the engine bay for a tech article they had on 4agzes. conversion was done by Fours N More
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
December 2002
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Thu, 03 July 2003 04:51
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EMP-2TG
Mate could you send me your mates contact details with CA18DET?
you can email me at elig@connect.net.au
also do you have any pics of it?
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Location:
sydney
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: KE30 4AGZE or CA18DET
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Fri, 04 July 2003 01:02
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if u r thinking of going ca18det the silvia gearbox will be way too long,the gearbox u will need is R30 skyline"stumpy"5-speed
and change the bellhousing to a r31 pintara housing, it will bolt straight on the skyline box, and make the whole thing heaps shorter.
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