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Location:
Perth W.A.
Registered:
June 2003
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 13B Turbo conversion in AE86
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Sun, 06 July 2003 14:12
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Hi all,
I've been toying around with the idea of rebuilding a AE86 for a while now and I am wondering if you fellow AE86 crazy people out there can share your invaluable knowledge, experiences or opinions. I have previously rebuilt another car to a different degree but the AE86 has got different goals. Please do not flame me if you disagree with my view. I am only looking for informed opinions that are well-backed up with information. Ok now..
My purpose of rebuilding the car would be to:
1) have max 300-350hp @ wheels
2) detuned to compete in the MC Autokhana state championships
3) able to be competitive at drag racing at the Plex (to be more precise - ET approx. 12.00-12.99 secs)
4) Performance show vehicle for certain products
5) Unique, rare or special performance modification
6) WA Transport approved
I have put together several extensive plans involving total rebuilding and tackling of the car's suspension, traction, chasis rigidity, drivetrain and finally engine performance.
I am in Perth, WA.
These are the engine performance conversions I considered:
a) 4AGZE engine running a HKS turbo kit(manifold, external wastegate, TO4E turbo from JMS in SA),
b) 3SGTE engine conversion with upgraded BBGT28 turbo &
c) 13B turbo conversion with ext. wastegate & hi-flo turbo (20B still too ex. to buy)
All these conversion would have Hybrid intercoolers, custom pipes & exhaust, upgrade fuel pump,injectors & regulator, Wolf3D Ver 4 or Autronic SM2 engine mgt, 5 puck clutch (twin plate not as easy if daily driven), upgraded gearbox (Supra for either the 4AGZE/3SGTE, RX7 series 4/5 gearbox for 13BT), upgraded R33 Nissan Skyline brakes/calipers (cheap)or BREMBOs off R33 Skyline GTR (mate has got some), LSD (TRD/KAAZ), custom adjustable height & dampening (for bump & rebound) coilovers, balljoints, mounts, half rollcage.
I am currently looking at the 13B turbo conversion as the best option. I know it is NOT a Toyota and I'm not keeping it in the family. However, if carefully & correctly tuned, this will make the power set out for less money and fulfill most of the purposes, esp. the WA Transport compliance. Furthermore, I am confident that it will be a unique and interesting vehicle at shows for publicity purposes.
What does everyone think about the 13B turbo in a AE86?
(Please do not bring up the 20B/F20C/3SGE VVTI conversion as their prices are too high and SR20DET will require a fair bit of work/money to get it to 300hp).
Thank you in advance for any information or help, esp. any technical advice.
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Location:
Rosanna, Melb
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 13B Turbo conversion in AE86
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Sun, 06 July 2003 14:42
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I saw a 13Bt sprinter at a drift comp in Adelaide recently and it was beautifully done. Clean engine bay and perfect interior, roll cage, fuel cell, the works. He was an Adelaide local, but I am afraid i know no more, you may be able to ask around the adelaide tuning shops, one of them must work on it, and they could tell you more. It damn well flew, but unfortunately the guy couldn't drift too well.
Chassis rigidity would be the main problem i reckon, but hopefully you have that under control.
Hen
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Location:
Cabramatta, NSW
Registered:
May 2002
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 Re: 13B Turbo conversion in AE86
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Mon, 07 July 2003 05:27
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First thing you should do is check that it's legal in WA... 'Coz it's not in NSW.
Do this before you think another thought about the conversion.
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Location:
Bundoora/Blackburn
Registered:
May 2002
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 13B Turbo conversion in AE86
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Mon, 07 July 2003 07:50
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what's a "hybrid" intercooler??
if i was to put any mega power into a sprinter, i would go with the 3SGTE but rwd ones tend to be pricy.
as for the chassis rigidity, go to a good panel place and see if they can realign your chassis for you after you stitch weld the whole lot.
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Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
November 2002
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Re: 13B Turbo conversion in AE86
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Mon, 07 July 2003 08:43
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i would go with the 3SGTE but rwd ones tend to be pricy.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but the only 3SGTE you can buy from a RWD car is an MR2, and they are a FWD layout anyway.
But yes the 3SGTE is a good option, although trickier. An SR20 is worth considering, as is a CA18... I'd stray from the 13BT as in most (all?) states this is not legal.
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Location:
Perth W.A.
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 13B Turbo conversion in AE86
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Mon, 07 July 2003 16:02
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Ok in reply to everyone:
Henn-
Chasis rigidity will be improved when the roll cage goes in and along with plenty of welding  With the extensive suspension set up that has been planned, the car should handle fairly well. My biggest worry will be the diff.
Nark-
WA Transport and licensing are very different from all other states. The fact is that they do not multiply the rotary engine by any factor (which should make the 13B around 2616 cc of displacement, I think) nor do they take any turbo/supercharging into consideration. An example is my friend that has a 13B turbo COMPLIANCED and PERMITTED in his Mark 1 Mazda MX5 (appeared in HOT 4s ages ago). His car was professionally done by ROTOMOTION in WA. Furthermore, I will be submitting my application to Transport this week so I will report back here with the result.
AZA86-
You are correct about the ease of actual conversion as the 13B actually is physically small and the mounts can be done relatively straightforward. As I mentioned earlier, the diff will have to be something real strong and at the moment the options are the Mazda RX7 Series 1-3 diffs or an actual TRD for the 86.
shinybluesteel-
Hybrid are an Australian company that manufactures intercoolers. We have had very good results from their intercoolers compared to big dollar Jap brands. Flow rate and temp. drops are very good and the best part is their pricing.
As for the 3SGTE, the fact remains that to get near 300hp @ the wheels would mean lots of MONEY: upgraded turbo (GT28 or so), possibly new manifold to suit, exhaust system, fuel pump, injectors, engine management system, intercooler, fuel pump, regulator, and we haven't talked about the "pricy" purchase price of a 3SGTE (which range btwn $1650 for an early model to $3,000 for the latest versions as a complete engine package).
Thus from a financial point of view, the 3SGTE will be more expensive than the 13B turbo which offers more performance for your money - if tuned correctly.
7M-Brisbane-
I think you are correct regarding that the only 3SGTE that was RWD were the MR2s. However they are mid-mounted above the rear axle which helps put the power down as the weight of the engine is above the wheels. Not sure what you meant by FWD (front wheel drive)layout.
As the 13B turbo is not a legal issue in WA and the costs to get the engine or halfcut is much less, the 13B turbo is still going to be an overall better option.
LATEST UPDATE:
I have found a complete Mazda RX7 Series 5 half cut with gearbox, brakes, a/c, computer, turbo, intercooler, engine for a ridiculous price through my contacts in the industry. This is just too good a deal to pass up so I may just buy it and keep it in the garage. Even in the worse case that Transport rejects my application, I can still sell the half cut for a decent profit.
If all goes well, I may have the car running in October'03 and possibly show it at Western Salon in Perth. I can dream can't I?
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 13B Turbo conversion in AE86
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Tue, 08 July 2003 02:54
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As far as im aware the 13b sprinter from adelaide might be coming to a dyno session in a few weeks time.
Hopefully keep you posted on what it makes at the wheels!
Very nice car indeed though, and I see nothing wrong with putting a rotor in a sprinter. It still revs hard and is small displacment, like a 4AGE!
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I supported Toymods
Location:
melbourne
Registered:
June 2002
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Re: 13B Turbo conversion in AE86
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Tue, 08 July 2003 07:35
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thanks for the hybrid info, i thought you were just reciting crap
(no offence)
i suppose you would have to do some messing aorund to get the 3sgte RWD, like engine form a MR2, G box from a jap spec IS200.
on second thoughts, if you don't mind straying from the family, the ca18det might be a pretty good idea, im not sure how much it would cost to get BIG power form a rotor, i have always thought messing with turbos on any engine would cost roughly the same amount.
good luck with the project.
off the topic, a conversion i would like to do is a 1jzgte into a series 6 rx7. you can have the rotor after i do this (ie never)
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Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 13B Turbo conversion in AE86
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Tue, 08 July 2003 09:14
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i know of a certain japanese 86 with a 20b in it
so a 13b should be no problem (you knew this allready)
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Location:
Perth W.A.
Registered:
June 2003
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Re: 13B Turbo conversion in AE86
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Wed, 09 July 2003 09:19
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Guys,
- Lang
I think everyone has seen that 20B in the AE86 Levin clip from Japan! But essentially the fact remains that if money is not a problem, any engine can be put into an AE86.
- shinybluesteel
I want to build a car that any car enthusiast can also do without breaking the bank. Thus my choice also stems from examples of standard 13B turbo-ed cars with bolt-on upgrades that have been tuned properly to get just over 300hp @ the wheels on Dyno Dynamics dyno. As for reliability, a friend that runs his RX7 series IV around the Wanneroo/Barbagello Raceway for the state series, has been doing so with minimal work and that has 320hp on 1 bar of boost! Of course I can't stress the need for proper dynotuning especially with any performance modifications to get these results. I will be using a full engine management system and also will be careful not to push the engine beyond its capabilities.
Further update!
Half cut is in the garage and everything looks very good.
We hooked up a battery and the Jap radio came on as well as the wipers!! it even cranks!! hahah LOL! The front bumper is dented in but not effecting the radiator or front part of the chasis. The engine has done 113,000kms and has a/c, p/s, coils, igniters, gearbox and all the fruit. Will get some fuel in a jerry can and try starting it later this week. Now lets hope that WA Transport will give the ok as it will be a shame to sell this away, even if its for a profit. Will keep everyone posted.
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 13B Turbo conversion in AE86
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Wed, 09 July 2003 10:20
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| levin2nv wrote on Wed, 09 July 2003 18:49 |
Further update!
The engine has done 113,000kms ...
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A jap 13B? looks like you mite want to rebuild her if you're after 300HP+, and some reliability. Not sure if you had this path in mind anyway but remember it's a mazda not a toyota, and if you plan on doing all the other bolt-on upgrades for the series 5 its probably not a bad option to replace seals, stronger dowels, etc..
A friend of mine has an imported series 5 motor in his series2 rx7 and it has all the decent mods except a good internal rebuild.
It is running about 180rwKW with an MTX-8, massive injectors pumps & lines, front mount, boost controller, and 3" mandrel from the turbo.
With all these mods and more $$$ put into it that i cant recall what for, dont you think it should be putting down a little more power than that? I think if he had spent some money rebuilding the thing stronger it would be more powerful and just ready for a larger turbo.
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Location:
Sydney
Registered:
May 2002
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Location:
Eskilstuna, Sweden
Registered:
May 2002
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Re: 13B Turbo conversion in AE86
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Thu, 10 July 2003 14:08
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I guess that answer is because it is more unique to have car built up with an engine from here and a diff from there etc. It is also cool that WA transport even allows for an 13B transplant!!
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Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2003
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Re: 13B Turbo conversion in AE86
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Thu, 10 July 2003 14:11
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really, thats nice of them, adelaide isnt so nice, it needs tests
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Re: 13B Turbo conversion in AE86