| Author | Topic |
|---|
Location:
SYDNEY
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Wed, 06 August 2003 13:13
|
 |
People,
I have 2xengines, 1 x 18rgu & 1 X 18rgeu both complete.
My questions are these.
1. the rebuild will run the efi off the 18rgeu motor with orig ecu, this is a certainty.
2.whould I be right in rebuilding the block of the rgu, due to the 8.7.1 comp ratio pistons?
3.the yamaha heads are, as per your forums info.18rgeu head 11111-88270 & 18rgu -88253.The 88270 head would be best due to bigger valves & porting possibilities true or false.
3. which set of cams would be better for power gains? The 18rgeu (88270 head)have variable gears for timing, where as the 18rgu (88253 head) the gears are fixed with no adjustment.
I will replaced the oil pump with the 18rgeu pump in the 18rgu block if this is the way to go, just in case theres a difference.
Any other ideas will be great. Its going into an ra28, no big deal there.
Also i'm putting a set of simmons B45s wheels 245x50x15 back 225x50x15 front, the steering is quite heavy. Question? has anybody use kmacs camber/caster kits and found they have made a difference lighter steering, worth the $500 + fitting?
thanks for any help.
great reading guys.
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Wed, 06 August 2003 14:58
|
|
ok, first point, the 88253 and 88270 heads have the same size valves and can both be ported well from what I've read on the forums
the casting on the 88253 head is more susceptable (spelling) to cracking (as we found out, note, do not over torque your head as the previous owner of our's had done, you'll get a ten inch crack along it) than the 88270 head but the 88253 has better casting in the ports from the factory (better flow)
the 88253 cams should be better power wise but I am doubting that the cams you have are from a 88253 head.
What are the numbers on the cams, as early as 88251 had adjustable cam timing, these are what my brother had in his 88253 head when he got it.
I would hate to try to put in a new top timing chain with non-adjustable cam timing, it would be really, really hard.
The 88250 cams had a three bolt, non-adjustable gear on them from what I have seen (I've only seen one set though).
the compression ration from the 18rgu would be better than the 18rgeu (8.7:1 is better than 8.3:1)
the 88253 head could be used with the efi set up but you'd need to file some teardrops in (you'll see what I mean of you compare the entrances to the intake ports of the two heads.
running 225 series tyres on the front I am not surprised that it is heavy to steer, just swapping from crap 195s to aquatread 195s made a huge difference, it was so light before, and now it is heavy. I don't know much about the camber/castor kits but I would say that your steering will still be heavy due to the width of rubber on the road.
|
|
|
Location:
SYDNEY
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Thu, 07 August 2003 08:13
|
|
ok,
The cams that have no adjustable timing and yes these are the 3 bolt type, a yes they are a bitch to put the timing chain on. these are numbered as follows.
intake - 1351 1-88231
exhaust - 1351 2-88231.
Would I be right in thinking that these cams are off an older head, does anybody have a listing of cam numbers and profiles for each head. I will check the other cams on the weekend to see there numbers.
As for the front tyres, i could not go back to a 195 series tyre as these absolutly look magic, as the car is lowered around 1.5 inches maybe 2. power steering is an outside option but not a priority. Maybe I should do weights as a priority, might help?
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Thu, 07 August 2003 12:44
|
|
DAMN YOU, you've got the cams that we want.
These are off of the early model 18rg, the 145hp or 140hp version.
These cams will give you max power at about the 6400RPM mark and max. torque (131ft.lb) at about 5200RPM, or would have if you had the 9.7:1 CR.
If you want to sell them we may be very interested!!!
If you wanted to turbocharge your engine these cams are not for you, but if you want a N/A that you have to scream for power then they are.
For a turbo you'd want the 88270 cams, but if you don't want to turbo then these would bring in about 120-135ps/5800RPM and 127ft.lb/4400. That kind of torque and lower down power is much more drivable around town than the early cams which need a floggin' to kick in. The EFI will reinforce this as it will give better power and torque down low than the carbies.
I don't think I would be changing to 195's either, I suggest you go the weight training.
|
|
|
Location:
adelaide
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Thu, 07 August 2003 12:52
|
|
|
I think the -88230 cams are from the 18R-G early gen. (9.7:1CR) motor. They have longer overlap/duration than the later ones i believe, but i do not know any of the exact cam specs.. love to know some figures tho.
|
|
|
Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Fri, 08 August 2003 07:47
|
|
Everything i would have said... steve M has already said 
If you are rebuilding, and you have the money, then i would suggest getting yourself a set of the 9.7:1 pistons! Would make a noticeable difference for sure!
|
|
|
Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Sat, 09 August 2003 00:34
|
|
Would anyone have a source/supply or numbers for the 9.7:1 pistons? Also if the preferred std cams (88231) aren't available what would be the best N/A streetable profiles. I've read that a 304deg (in and ex) with 10.5 lift is good and same as a TRD spec original.
Thanks
Justin
|
|
|
Location:
SYDNEY
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Sat, 09 August 2003 04:09
|
|
Going back to my original thread, I said I will check on the other cams I have. You told me that the one set I have are from the early model 145hp motor, so these are 1351 1 88270 & 1351 2 88270
Now to mix and match.
bottom end has been re-build ie.new bearings (big & small)balance crank shaft, new timing chain guides & timing chain, block was also acid dipped and shaved for straightness(There is a word for that? truetified?)
both heads have been slightly match ported with the 88231, 5 angle valve cut and new high strength double valve spings, plus shaved. the 88270 head has 3 angle cut valves & shaved
Now money is tight that is Ive allowed for full respray & full interior @ $5k all up. This was to be a daily driver but your info given suggests more speed. Question, is any body going to turbo, that needs 8.3.1 or 8.7.1 pistons and cams 88270's and maybe twin solexs off the 18rgu. see Im trying not to fork out more cash. Or is there something that I might have stashed in the garage from these engines.By the way this rebuild is been going on & off since 1994. go figure.
What is the new n\asp set up to be, best results power wise?Help.
[Updated on: Sat, 09 August 2003 04:24]
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Sun, 10 August 2003 23:33
|
|
The 88231s are the 145 hp model (or 140 if they are from a 18rgr.
the 88270s are from the efi later model.
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Sun, 10 August 2003 23:35
|
|
double vavle springs doesn't necessarily mean high strength.
The 18rgus and geu's came with double valve springs but aren't any better than the original version single springs, maybe even softer.
|
|
|
Location:
SYDNEY
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Mon, 11 August 2003 08:05
|
|
|
I was told these double valve springs are high strengh springs and harder spring,so no valve bounce at high revs. Any way who's to know. better than origanal apparently.
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Tue, 12 August 2003 04:03
|
|
|
The previous owners may have put in some stronger ones, they are available, my brother has them.
|
|
|
Location:
SYDNEY
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Tue, 12 August 2003 07:39
|
|
|
yeh, i bought these springs in melbourne from fours plus. Use to be in dandenong. They had heaps of bits for 18rg's eg. variable cam gears , valve springs, full gasket kits even for efi. I had bought 2 full kits. I wonder if they still exist?
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide, South Oz
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Tue, 12 August 2003 07:56
|
|
Hey what about a sett of four 18RG TRD pistions...
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Tue, 12 August 2003 10:35
|
|
gimme those pistons, r they available still, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$???
call JHH engineering in brisbane for high pressure valve springs, they are like $130 or so
|
|
|
Toymods Social Secretary
Location:
Sydney
Registered:
July 2002
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Wed, 13 August 2003 01:53
|
|
|
jeeezus! they certainly don't skimp on the dome now do they!
|
|
|
Location:
Canberra
Registered:
December 2002
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Wed, 13 August 2003 02:23
|
|
HoLy CpAp 
Where can you get those pistons!!!!!!
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide, South Oz
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Wed, 13 August 2003 07:56
|
|
Sorry the TRD pistions are in Bluewire and they are not cheap..
But you can still get them in USA somewhere
|
|
|
Location:
SYDNEY
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Wed, 13 August 2003 08:50
|
|
|
They are an awesome looking piston. If the $$$ are that much, I'll just by one and use it as a key ring ornament.
|
|
|
Location:
SYDNEY
Registered:
August 2003
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Wed, 13 August 2003 09:09
|
|
|
Has any one added a unichip piggy back computer to their standard 18rgeu ecu.I'm thinking of buying one if the gains are as good as full after market ecu. For $600-$700 + fitting & dyno tune , it sounds ok. Any opinions?
|
|
|
Location:
Brisbane
Registered:
October 2002
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Wed, 13 August 2003 12:47
|
|
|
are they forged, what comp ratio, what general price range, if i had those i wouldn't have to change to a 1G anytime soon
|
|
|
Location:
1st street on the right
Registered:
November 2002
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Wed, 13 August 2003 13:29
|
|
They aren't the same as the toysport 10.5:1 pistons are they? These run in at $600- US /set plus rings and freight and associated import costs.
Thats a bigger dome than I have exposed on top! 
|
|
|
Location:
Lost in the K hole
Registered:
May 2002
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Wed, 13 August 2003 15:22
|
|
a dude had a set of these on ebay (US) a few months ago. they were 12:1 and he only wanted US$350 for them... i nearly bought them 'just because'...
cheers
ed
|
|
|
Location:
Adelaide
Registered:
June 2003
|
|
Re: 18rgu/rgeu build which way?
|
Thu, 14 August 2003 04:41
|
|
For those who are interested, JP engineering in Adelaide can make you some 11.5:1 ish compression TRD rip off pistons for $660 the set, you'll want to get some chrome rings though.
They already have three of these on the shelf and it'll take four weeks if you want a set made up.
Note, they are cast, not forged, but they can make them to whatever spec you want.
You will need to bore out your block to 92mm though otherwise they aren't gonna fit.
They could also make them in a 91mm bore iof you want to.
|
|
|
